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Totally OT Please don't make it POLITICAL

A

Adirondack case guy

Well-known Member
This is a local issue about a Boarder Collie breader, who is facing major jail time for animal crulity.
Acordering to the local news, SPCA spent $50K to rescue 46 dogs from his facility. "REALLY--Why"
It sounds terrible --- Rite!!!
He had most of the dogs in outside kennels. The big blue 55 gal. drumbs, cut out for dens, and were lined with straw for them to take shelter, and they were well fed.
As you are all aware, this winter was brutil for man and beast.
Cattlmen in the high plains lost thousands of head of cattle due to winter storms.
Here in the Albany area of NY., people think he is a criminal. Is he any different than the cattle farmers of the high plains.
MY opinion-- we have way tooo many bleading hearts in this area that are in their own little world and don't have a clue how mother nature afects their life.
Chris and Kim, please let this post run for a bit, until some jerk makes it a political issue.
loren, the Acg.
 
I don't know Loren. There's a case here in Michigan that popped up just recently that sounded the same way. A farmer who had 71 dead calves waiting for the ground to thaw so they could be buried,the way it was reported on TV. They had talked to neighbors and even to his vet. I don't know for sure who the vet is,but he's right in the back yard of the famous Michigan vet who's on TV Saturday nights. Anyway,it was reported that the vet said the losses were due to illness and the brutal winter.
Last night they reported on his arraignment. Seems he had filed an insurance claim last year claiming a bunch of calves had been stolen. Now it looks like these were the ones he reported stolen and he didn't bury them when he had the opportunity.
So,the case you speak of might have more to it than it looks like right now. Might want to wait until everything comes out in the wash. I was pretty peeved about this guy getting arrested too until the whole insurance fraud thing came out.

But ya,these extremists are getting out of hand in a lot of cases.
 
I agree with you,bleeding hearts jump on a cause and go ape on it,if the dogs had shelter and were fed,if they were otherwise healthy,the shelter doesn't have to be pretty,it just has to be functional...and the idiocy of it all is how the He!! did the do gooders manage to spend $50,000 to rescue 46 dogs....REally???? There should be a police investigation into how the do gooders managed to spend that much money,follow the money,who pocketed how much..thers a fraud investigation just waiting to be investigated!
 
So, did a bunch of them die from the cold? If so, maybe the SPCA was justified in saving the rest of them. Having facilities for them that were fine in normal times doesn't mean he wasn't culpable for deaths if situation got worse. Cattlemen on the high plains can't do much about 800 head of cattle getting caught in a blizzard- but a guy with 46 dogs can do something if conditions get bad- like bring them in the house. Guess we need a little more information.
 
(quoted from post at 00:08:22 05/15/14) So, did a bunch of them die from the cold? If so, maybe the SPCA was justified in saving the rest of them. Having facilities for them that were fine in normal times doesn't mean he wasn't culpable for deaths if situation got worse. Cattlemen on the high plains can't do much about 800 head of cattle getting caught in a blizzard- but a guy with 46 dogs can do something if conditions get bad- like bring them in the house. Guess we need a little more information.
Click to expand...
eally?You're going to bring 46 dogs in the house,I couldn't imagine that!WOW!
 
Locally some do-gooder was watching similar thing unfold at a neighbours house and stole the dog after SPCA said they couldn't do anything when it had shelter food and water. do-gooder was surprised and whining on the news when charged with theft.
 
"Don't make it political" is the standard disclaimer for posters who want to make a political post without getting in trouble. If you don't think your post is political, why even bring it up? The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

There are, of course, at least two sides to every story. I assume you're referring same case as the article linked below. It seems a veterinarian examined the dogs and submitted a 36 page report on their condition. A few excerpts:

' According to the report, only six of the 35 border collies weigh 35 to 45 pounds, which is average for the breed.

' "The majority are adult border collies weighing an average of 25 pounds," the report says. This classifies the dogs as underweight or emaciated.

' "The outward appearance of the Flat Creek dogs is deceiving," the report says. "Since their fur is dirty and matted, it appears they are much heavier ... their nutrition and lack of care placed them in jeopardy of starvation. Most of these dogs have rib bones or hip bones protruding, without any body fat or muscle mass."

' The report stated all of the dogs were infested with worms, and while food was provided at the breeding facility, the dogs were not receiving proper nutrition due to the extremely high level of parasites.

' "No matter how much they eat, without medical treatment, dogs with heavy worm loads will become anemic and have the potential for organ failure and death," the report stated.

' Besides being malnourished, the report also states some of the collies suffer from skin conditions, ear mites, yeast infections of the ear, broken, infected teeth, urinary tract infections, tick-borne diseases, and missing nose and ear pieces. Some show semi-feral tendencies, the report stated. '
Dogs seized from kennel
 
If you breed dogs have common sense, having dogs in zero degree weather for weeks is cruel. Unless they are Siberian Huskees.

I have one neighbor that allows his dog to run loose all over, this is in a way animal cruelty because it will get hit by a car eventually.
There are people who are not fit to be parents, just look around. There are people that are not fit to be dog owners either.
 
Randy,
the TV station was onsite when the sheriff's dept, SPCA and Animals rites people were convescating them, and they never showed a dead dog, or mentioned one. There wer some reported with frost bite however.
Loren
 
If there's an arraignment for any charges being filed,give us an update will you? I'd be interested in knowing what they charge him with.
 
Not that I care personally, because I truly don't, but if someone is going to call someone a jerk for making something political in their opinion, then I suppose that someone might think of someone as a jerk for using a tractor forum for non-tractor OT in their opinion. For the record, I've been known to post site related and non-site related posts. Just making an observation.

As far as the story goes, there isn't enough information given to make a judgement one way or the other, in my opinion, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, just honest.

Good luck.

Mark
 
Wile
For the last 3 years we have had very mild winters. this winter was unusually cold and presistant with little to no snow cover for protection. What would you have done to adjust in mid winter?
Loren
 
I haven't reserched thr situation to the point you have.
Please tell me why our tax dollars spent 50K on 46 dogs!!!, when our roads and bridges are falling apart.
Loren
 
>I haven"t reserched thr situation to the point you have.
Please tell me why our tax dollars spent 50K on 46 dogs!!!, when our roads and bridges are falling apart.

I spent all of 42 seconds on google to do my research. What makes you think any tax dollars were spent?
 
We have had a number of working border collie stock dogs. Sometimes when they had a nice warm house to go into we would look out and see them laying in the snow. Why? I guess cause they wanted to.

When it was much below 20 degrees my dad would let them in the basement where he had a bed made for them by the wood furnace.

Gene
 
Mark my friend,
Are you willing to rescue a dog from a pound and pay better than a grand, or will you let all these dogs be gased because knowone else will?
Lets get our priorities in order. That amount of money spent is rediculis.
Loren
 
Well Mark,
The TV station intervirewed a spokeswomen from the animal pound, and that was her number, for rehabing the dogs.
To add to that, the TV station posted pics, of local and state law enforcement on the scean and several court proceeding brought against the breader. Add that on also. 50K is probably the short side of what lawyers and beaurocrats have spent to try to punish this guy, in a abnormal winter, that he or anyone else was prepared to deal with..
Loren
 
Our German Shephers slept in his dog house, with straw bedding and insulation board inside, in the winter. I it got too cold, we would let him finside the porch at night. Some nights he would sleep in the barn; when I went into the barn he was sleeping in a bed of straw with all the barn cats piled on top of him!
 
SS 55,
What is the difference between this breeder and a cattle rancher who free ranges his herd out in the elements each year with no shelter and only range grass to survive on during a severe winter.
As you know it takes a lot more feed for an animal to maintain body health during the winter, and the cold does take its toll wheather a beef heard or a dog kennel.
loren
 
What I would like to know is how many elderly and kids were starving and freezing in the same area these people were worried about some dogs. Nobody seems to care about them. Bleeding hearts need to get their priorities straight.
 
I have eaten dog meat and it's pretty good. Cat doesn't taste that good or it was prepared incorrectly.

Seriously

Greg
 
Could be inhumane to keep a dog chained up all the time too. I would rather see a dog that is free to roam than a dog tied up all the time not being able to enjoy themselves. This of course depends if they are chasing the neighbors cattle or kids or causing other kinds of mischief. My dog was kept in by an underground fence But I didn't have the heart to see him stuck by the house when he could be chasing rabbits and such on the rest of my few acres.
 
i think the county should sub out to independent contractors. he!! i would have done it for, say, $49500. could of saved em $500. easy :)
 
Greg:

Adult dog is good; lean meat. Puppy is BETTER; sweet meat, tastes like it was marinated overnight in Sugar-water. Have you ever had Monkey or Snake? I don't like Monkey, very lean & stringy. Depending on the type of Snake, generally delicious.

Doc :>)
 
Dr. Walt- Snake is okay but a little too fishy for me, kinda like frog legs. There is just that little bit of flavor that I don't like.

Can't say I have ever eaten a pup. The youngest dog was about a one year old coyote. It was as tender and tasty as a good porterhouse steak.

Greg
 
You should all read your own comments and try to figure out the convoluted nature of your rambling arguments. We have about 3 basic concepts...

1) they are my dogs (animals) to do with as I please, and the community has NO right to step in.

2) your broaching of the subject was a not so veiled request for political approval supporting position(1).

3) The dog owner was a jerk and abused his dogs and the community has a right to step in.

Pick a side, but don't convolute it. When I view the thinking on this forum it makes me glad that judges at least have to try to justify their decisions based on some legal precident. And glad that some rational appellate judge can say.."decision makes no sense".
 
You are right, without knowing the details, it appears (to me) there is very little difference, if any at all, between the two. The reason one is legal in one industry in one state, and essentially the same thing is illegal in a different industry in a different state is ...well... political.

All our laws are are the result of our local, state and national political processes. Just about every post arguing for or against some law is a political post.

I enjoy you posts and respect you opinions, especially on the Case forum, as you probably do some of mine, even when we don't agree.

When I said I agree with Mark, I agree that there are not enough facts presented to make a call.

Also, to me, posting a political topic and then asking not to make it political, doesn't make this a non-political post.

I look forward to more of your tractor posts. Have a good evening.
 
Just north of Syracuse a cow farmer/truckdriver let 1 horse die, another the vet put down as was too far gone to save and 2 others made it to grass. They starved while there was a 48' trailer full of hay not 100' from the pasture area this winter. The water trough was frozen solid and the only windbreak available was from easterly wind. Too bad mostly outa the north and west this winter.
The "authorites" investigated but so far nothing come of it.
Last week the 2 got out and ended up here and the cops located the owner and he took them back to where he keeps them a mile up the road. I went past the place 3 times this weekend and no hay out and grass was eaten down to dirt.
 
Greg:

I've tried Frog Legs, didn't particularly like them. Also tried Duck, good flavor but those dang things are greasier than Bear, and I like Bear (COOKED; not chasing me - LOL).

Doc :>)
 
There's a thing called the "duck test" that applies here. "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck..."

Or as the French guard said to King Arthur in Monty Python and the Holy Grail... "Pull the other one".

You can call your post anything you like, but if you want to argue politics, you have to go somewhere else. Kim is pretty tolerant but you have crossed the line. Watch this space go empty soon.
 
Loren, the article I posted says the dogs are "the financial responsibility of the Montgomery County SPCA". Doesn't say anything about a municipal dog pound. Now of course that article is several months old, so it's possible that local government has reimbursed the SPCA. Perhaps local government agencies contract with the SPCA, which would be a lot cheaper than building, maintaining and staffing a municipal dog pound.

As for the idea that the police should have left this guy alone and that money spent enforcing animal cruelty laws is a waste of tax dollars, that's a specious argument. We spend an incredible amount of money in this country prosecuting and punishing lawbreakers, often for so-called "victimless" crimes. Should government be able to take children away from drug-addicted parents? After all, parents ought to be able to raise their kids as they see fit. We have laws against animal cruelty, and we expect police and prosecutors to take action when they think someone has crossed that line.

Should the dogs have been euthanized? Well, it sounds like most of them have been brought back to health. Since the dogs were seized rather than abandoned, they may not have the option of killing them without a judge's order. Otherwise the owner could turn around and sue for damages if he's exonerated in court.

As for making an exception because this was an unusually severe winter, I don't buy that argument. We are, after all, talking about upstate New York. As you well know, severe winters are the norm rather than the exception.
 
(quoted from post at 18:53:02 05/14/14) What I would like to know is how many elderly and kids were starving and freezing in the same area these people were worried about some dogs. Nobody seems to care about them. Bleeding hearts need to get their priorities straight.
Click to expand...

In NYS? Darn few. This state has an enormous social safety net and anyone "starving" is likely doing so either because they're stubborn, a druggie or because they're one of the people that formerly resided in a residential care facility (asylum) but were tossed out into the street back in the late 80's/early 90's by Mario Cuomo in a misguided attempt to "improve the quality of their lives". NYs homeless population bloomed at the same time the various psyc centers were being shut down.

There is no reason for anyone to be starving or without shelter in NYS unless it's by choice.
 
(quoted from post at 19:02:45 05/14/14) Could be inhumane to keep a dog chained up all the time too. I would rather see a dog that is free to roam than a dog tied up all the time not being able to enjoy themselves. This of course depends if they are chasing the neighbors cattle or kids or causing other kinds of mischief. My dog was kept in by an underground fence But I didn't have the heart to see him stuck by the house when he could be chasing rabbits and such on the rest of my few acres.
Click to expand...

If the dogs (and cats) would stay on their owners property or on the property of people who agree to let them run on it, that would be fine. But what usually happens is that Joe Sixpack turns his Pit Bull/Rottweiler/Akita cross loose on the surrounding neighborhood. Why is it right for you to inflict your dogs/cats on other people and local wildlife and livestock? Is the dogs/cats freedom to "enjoy itself" as you say more important than someone elses ability to be free from having to suffer from your animal?

The harsh truth is that America could destroy 90% of it's dog and cat population and be the better for it. Way too many people own pets they don't/can't take care of. Same for horses, cattle, donkeys, pigs, etc. They can't afford to take care of them, the local bleeding heart decides it's pure willful neglect and you get posts like this. If the bleeding hearts would foot the bill for the hay or offer their time to help care for the animal (never, ever happens!) things would be better. But they don't. The alternative is putting all those animals down. Period.

Life sucks, then you die. Get used to it.
 
What is the difference between this breeder and a cattle rancher who free ranges his herd out in the elements each year with no shelter and only range grass to survive on during a severe winter.
Click to expand...

There is no difference because most people are incapable of looking at it objectively.

This is how most people view it:

Cows == hamburger, steak, and leather
Dogs == cuddly pets that we wuvvvvvvvvv to deafffffff!
 
I think it depends on how much the dogs were suffering and if there was "intentional" neglect involved. A similar event happened in my town this winter (Otsego County NY). Also here in northern Michigan. "Abuse" is a relative term and does not mean the same thing to all. God help you when you've got any living creatures out in public view! I got "busted" a few years ago for running a farm tractor while by little kid was in a playpen (within my view). I was wearing headphones to listen to his baby monitor. Some fine neighbor drove by and then reported me to Social Services for "child abuse."
 
Some people have nothing better to do than complain. About things they know nothing about.My father was cleaning out a creek of the junk that had been thrown in.Driving through the water he was pumping into a field.Lady called the local sheriff told him a wet land was being destroyed.So her and the sheriff came out. Dad showed them both what was going on. Made her look like a fool. She was the butt of many jokes around town for years.
 
Ya know, unless a person was actually there to investigate what was going on, I don't know how you can judge. Thank the lord that our system will let an actual judge or jurry make the call after reviewing all of the facts, information, and testimony. You are not going to have enough info by reading a few lines in the newspaper or seeing a little clip on the evening news. I agree with ya, $50K to rescue the dogs is way to much. But again don't know the exact detailes on that either. Was that for this isolated incident?? If this guy was not at fault, than this guy should walk. I don't beleive in animal cruelty, or being mean to them. These people just should not have animals and pay the price. Any livestock owner is going to have bad things happen. For example, animals get sick and die just like people do. Secondly, animals don't live as nice of life as what people do. Well except for some of your dog and cat owners. Some of them treat there pets better than people. That's fine if they want to do that, just don't expect everyone else to. The people that I don't like are the cell phone do gooders. These are the people that will drive by an accident, keep on going, and dial 911 for the cops and ambulance out, but won't even stop to help. These people should keep to their own business. They don't even realize they are not helping at all. Now days, the people involved and the guy that actually stops to help all have their own phones and can call for appropriate help. So basicly, if your not going to help, just act like ya didn't even see anything. This world would be alot better place if everyone was willing to help others, and not just be all about themselves and how they think everyone else should be like them.
 
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