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Dealing with a hoarder

3

37chief

Well-known Member
Location
California
Mom left almost four acres to me and my brother. I am dealing with the city on a lot split to give him equal share of the land. He has at least 10 vehicles mostly on what I will end up with. These things are all needing major repair. All I get from him is I am going to fix them. A couple examples one ford 4X4 needing a front axle rebuilt. I offered to have it repaired at a shop, needs ring and pinion. He wants to buy all the tools and set it up him self. At 69 I doubt he will ever be setting up another differential. A 80 Dodge pickup needing a transmission He removes the tires, and sand blasted the wheels. The paint is never right, and has redone it several times. He never married and lived in the house with Mom until she died, and still does. The estate pays everything except for water and electricity. The house is a disaster junk piled everywhere. Mail piles up in the mail box. Water has been shut off, because he hasn't pain the bill. Mom left me as executor. I guess it is partly my fault for letting it get so far out of hand. Just wondering if anyone has had to deal with a hoarder, and how did you handle it? Stan
 
Wow, what a problem. I think if your brother's stuff is on your property you are justified in sending a letter stating you have X (30, 60?) days to remove your property otherwise you will take possession and remove it. Then DO IT once the time runs out, otherwise you will never be rid of the problem. Scrap or sell the heaps and give him the money, less expenses, if that would ease your conscience. Seems to me a firm hand and steady resolve is needed. You don't have to be an enabler. What remains on his part is his problem. Sounds like he needs some professional help to get beyond the hoarding.
 
Dealing with a hoarder, like that, is not easy. I had to do it once, and that was enough. First, he isnt going to do anything, no matter what he says! You have to put your foot down! Either get rid of it yourself, or sit there while he does! Haul in a big dumpster if you have to, seek professional help if you have to! Its not going to be easy on him, and YOU for that matter. Hoarding is a disease, and he needs treatment.
 
Check if he owns a gun. Then offer to move the vehicles with your tractor & chain or web. Give him some days to think the offer over. Anther angle is have an attorney send a letter with some options, and the last option is hire a D-6 or D-8 dozer to push everything over on his property. If he senses that option he doesn't like at all he might chose a less destructive option like you pulling stuff over to his side.It will be almost impossible to maintain family relationship in your situation (unless a third party is made out to be the bad guy like the attorney or the city officials)
 
He is your brother. Does maintaining that relationship matter? Do you need the $$ from your portion of the land?

If the relationship is important and the land value is not, sign it over to him.

If you need the money from the land and the relationship is important. Tell your brother you need the stuff off your portion of the land by X date. Offer to help or if necessary move it over yourself.
 
Surprised the city/county/whatever has not been in touch with him to clean it up.. They are getting stricter on such things even here in SC..
 
when i end up with all the tractors, trucks, cars, implements, tools. that i want, will i be seen as a hoarder or a collector ? maybe i don't want all of my tractors and trucks all gussied up and i think they look beautiful with their work clothes on, does that make me a junk collector ? i think you should help him move he stuff to his side and leave well enough alone.
 
My mother. She's still alive,but my younger brother will be executor of her estate. We already know that. He was grumbling and said he wished I'd do it. I just patted him on the back and said "Mom always liked you best". LOL
 
Hoarding is now classified as a mental illness, get him some help.


You could also move his stuff to his property, and be done with it.
 
My wife and I are both "hoarders." But we pay our own bills and all our "junk" is on our own lands. Got near 100 tractors, 20 cars and trucks, 6 boats, 4 RVs, guns, ammo, antique kitchen equipment, 40 antique radios 2 years worth of food, etc.
 
That would be a good idea. After paying around five hundred thousand to do what the city is making me do, just to divide the land,there isn't going to be much left. Stan
 
I"ve dealt with two older persons, both difficult situations, and the technique that works for me is a little white lie; Tell them "Well just for now, lets" do this...."
"This is for temporary, just for a little while, let"s move this here..... "
You get your way, and as time goes by everybody forgets.
 
I think we all have a bit of hording in us. I do. there is a time though when it gets out of control, in my brother's case. Stan
 
I had two close friends - both a bit older then me -that collected stuff their entire lives. Neither would part with anything. Ford Model Ts, Cletrac HGs, even a 1902 Oldsmobile car (pretty rare). Both guys had wives that hated them (and the stuff) and both died within the past 5 years. Most of the stuff went for near nothing at the estate auctions. By association - the wives (widows) hated their late husband's friends too so we had little chance to buy anything.
Several good running wide-track Oliver HGs went for less then $300 each.
At least in my case - my wife and I like each other and she also knows what stuff is worth when sold at the correct venue. If I croak with all this stuff around - I think she'll make the best of it and cash in.
 
That is a tough situation, a windfall and a burden at the same time. It's probably even more stressful for your brother than it is for you. Is sounds like you are asking for some options, so I'll add a few, they may not apply at all, that's OK.

It comes down to which is more important to you: the property; or your brother.

Odds are your only, single, never married brother has listed you or your surviving decedents as his heirs. So, unless it is sold, the entire property will likely go to your children eventually, regardless of what happens in the short term (including if you sell your half to your brother).

Do you have any short term plans for the property, or an immediate need for the money? What are your brother's plans for his half? He may plan to live there as long as possible, hopefully another 15, 20 or more years.

I would continue having the property divided into two lots, and have the boundaries marked. If your half is all unimproved, it could greatly reduce the property taxes on your half (possibly 80 percent less).

Even if you clean up your half, it could be difficult to sell your lot for much money if it is located next to an older unkempt house with a lot of "stuff" packed in the yard. In short, your two acre half may not be worth much until both halves are cleaned up.

Some options are:
- Sell your half to your brother.
- Buy out your brother's half.
- Sell your half.
- Rent you half to your brother.
- Rent your half to someone else.

At 69 years old, I'd be very reluctant to buy out your brother's half, that would force him to move out of his long term home.

Can you work out a way to rent your half to your brother? Maybe have him pay your property taxes directly to the county for you and then pay you the remainder of the rent (a multiple of the property taxes?). That would give you some extra income from your half of the windfall, without you having to force your brother to clean things up and without disrupting your brother's life. You or your kids will still be the ones to clean things up eventually, but it would be done without breaking your brother's heart.

Good luck, please let us know how things work out.
 
(quoted from post at 10:11:57 05/14/14) That would be a good idea. After paying around five hundred thousand to do what the city is making me do, just to divide the land,there isn't going to be much left. Stan
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if the city was trying to charge me 1/2 a mill to draw a line on there city map, i would get a lawyer.
 
I do have a attorney.It involves a whole lot of things. Under grounding electricity to the property, water meters, road into the land. Pave road in front of the land. Grading the land to make a saleable plot. All kinds of enviormental restrictions. That's just the big things. It really isn't fair. Dad could have done this back a few years for little money. Stan
 
Sometimes knowing a hoarder is a good thing. If you have something in your yard that you do not want but do not want to scrap, give it to the hoarder. It will be there when you need it, the trick is getting it back when you need it.
 
If only 20 of those tractors run then you have a problem. A few years back I had a local guy do some tree work for me. I went to his house the next day to pay him, 5 miles away. The driveway up to his house was littered with old washing machines, bathtubs, scrap steel, a few old cars. I realize that in the US of A a mans property is his own. But there comes a time when you have clean up the crap so that your son or daughter does not have the burden of having to do it after you kick off or get put in a nursing home.
 
I watched the tv show hoarders a few times and I watched Car Hoarders too. The problem is these people want all their stuff except the dead cats on the bottom of the piles they don't know about. " oh, thats where kitty went". As the clean -up crew pulls out a cat flat as a frisbee. On one episode the people to help clean up the hoard were there and the guy is taking in deliveries of more stuff he bought on ebay. I can't talk and probably am a candidate for a future hoarder as I go to more sales every week. Trick is to get rid of more than you take in. I think you need both a dumpster and a shrink. He is gonna want to keep all his great junk. They take each item and say ; sell, donate or ,keep. Every time the hoarder says keep and has some reason why they can't get rid of it.
 
(quoted from post at 12:30:50 05/14/14) I do have a attorney.It involves a whole lot of things. Under grounding electricity to the property, water meters, road into the land. Pave road in front of the land. Grading the land to make a saleable plot. All kinds of enviormental restrictions. That's just the big things. It really isn't fair. Dad could have done this back a few years for little money. Stan
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Not fair?

Whose idea was it to develop the property? YOURS!

Clearly you are planning to get that $500,000 back several times over through the development of this property, so quit complaining.

In reality, you consider your brother an "undesirable" and would just as soon have him disappear so he doesn't creep out the new high-class people you are trying to attract to your development.
 
Sounds like your in between a rock and a hard place. Option 1. If your willing to and can get the money out of him, just sell your half to him. This option makes the most since. Option 2. Have it serveyed and divided. This will cost you money and turn into a big mess trying to get him to get his stuff on his side of the line. Option 3. Rent your half to him. This not to smart either because the city will be on your but as well as his about getting the entire place cleaned up. Sometimes they will only give you certain amount of time, and then do it themselves and mail you a bill. If nobody pays you could end up losing the place.
 
let the situation go. You will probably outlive him and can do as you wish. if your wife is pushing for the money,let HER be the bad guy and deal with him. I'd sooner let a brother die with his stash than have him hating me for being greedy. the price of scrap will continue to climb,much more than money in the bank. A happy brother is priceless.
 
Son is kind of turning into a hoarder, but fortunatly he lives in Australia now so I don't have to look at his "treasures". Anyone want to buy boxes and boxes of old car magazines, among a lot of other things that he could live very well without?
 
I can't see what te problem is.
I would move his stuff over to his side of the property and be done with it.

25 Years ago i was farming with my brother as equal partners, we lived in the same house,..a duplex
Things went sour.
I put a price tag on the property 'lock stock and barrel' and told him,..take your pick,..pay me half and i move on or visa versa.
He took the money and moved on,...we are still friends.
 
Is this In the county or city? Brother in law lived in Tampa Fl. Serious hoarder. Someone called the fire dept. They came out, took one look, said clean this mess up or else. As he has gotten older he now has serious mental issues. When your house is so stuffed with junk that you have paths to get from on room to another you are mentally ill. When someone is mentally ill they are usually in denial but trust me the rest of the family knows.
 
I had accumilated about 5 acres of old balers,combines,tractors,trucks,plows etc etc over the years mostly from people that just wanted to get rid of the stuff sold most of it
for 10 cents/lb a couple years ago_Of course I kept another 5 acres of good stuff(LOL)And I'm not leaving the land to someone who won't appreciate the value of whats on it and I've marked off the list quite a few relatives that have called my stuff 'junk' wouldn't dream of hassling them with some land that worth around $40,000 an acre.
 
When I went to the city and asked for a split down the middle. The land is in a trust, and has to come out sooner than later. They told me it doesn't work like that. the only way I can get the land split is a subdivision. My brother will get his half free and clear. I am ending up with three lots on my half. I am selling one to pay for everything if I get enough for it. I am giving my daughters each one of the remaining parcels. the only thing I am gaining is keeping my shop and the opportunity to use some of my retirement money to complete the project. I am not gaining ANYTHING, except getting the land divided as per Mon's will 1/2 equally to each of us down the middle. Problem is brothers crap is on my part that needs to be made into lots, and he doesn't seam to care to do much about it. That is it. Wish you wouldn't jump to conclusions with out the facts. Stan
 
Believe it or not I am still dealing with the city. I have a contractor getting prices for everything. Getting close I will sell one parcel, and hope to gain enough to pay for the development. I will give each daughter one parcel. I will get to keep my shop.
Which the city was going to make me tear down. Brother will get his half free and clear. Stan
 
As I recall you posted about this awhile back.
The answer is simple.....move your brother's possessions to his part of the property. Problem solved, end of discussion.
 
If you're the executor you have the control on what happens to your mom's estate. It's time he stands on his own two feet. I have a friend and his wife is a hoarder. Not only buys things and never takes them out of the bag. They have one son who is now 7 and my friend tells me he can't even lay in his own bed because she has it covered with items. It's not only items that she has and forgets about it's also food she prepares and puts in the ice box. My friend very seldom eats at home. That's sad!!!
 
To the people who say just rent it to him or sell it to him. you must not have read the OP because he was said to not even pay his own water bill.Don't think that is a viable option,just saying.
 
So your going to do all the work, and spend the money, to in the end just loose a sixth of the total land, or a third of your land, and your relationship with your brother, without gaining anything? Sounds fishy to me. Hate to say it but kirsch might be on to something.
 
This sounds like my nephew that's 51 and never married. He's always had a hard time keeping a job. He inherited the home my late parents bought
when they quit farming in the 1950's when my brother and I were in the military. He has the living room piled up with old cook books. You can hardly get into the room. He has the spare bedrooms with clothing piled on top of the beds about a foot deep. I told him he has a fire hazard with no exit from the house if he's in the bedroom. He also had a large shed installed and its packed with old cook books. Hal
 
Here is what I am gaining. I am dividing the land my Mom left my brother and my self to be divided equally in her will. As I said previously my brother will gain his 1/2 without paying a cent. Which includes the house. He is flat broke. He should be happy.What am I to do? Not honor Mothers request to divide the land in half, and leave the mess to my kids? I guess to some it looks like a win win for me. It's not. I am giving each daughter a place to build a house. My only hope is if I can brake even on the sale of one of the parcels. Stan
 
Question, if the Brother can't/won't pay the water bill how in the heck is he going to keep current on property taxes? You could split it up and let the county be the heavies and evict your brother, if you manage it right as your brother is about to loose his house for taxes you could step in, pay the taxes and get concessions from him, or use his inability to stay current on taxes as proof of mental incompetence and get someone appointed to oversee his affairs (including getting rid of junk and code compliance issues)which could be you or an appointed and paid advocate that could act as a designated heavy (on his dime). Best (and most loving act) could go for getting him declared incompetent forcing him to get and listen to help. You might get more cooperation from him with less hurt feelings if he has a choice to let you be involved and his assets preserved or let an outsider or the government in to assume control while loosing assets and eventually his land and "stuff". Other question you might want to deal with if something happens and he has to go into care (nursing home or other institution) he needs to understand they'll take the land and stuff to pay for those bills until they've got it all and he becomes indigent then they'll take care of him.

Now we'll do the John T. disclaimer....this is a situation where you need the advice of a licensed attorney practicing in this area who is familiar with state and local laws regarding the subject to properly advise you and your brother on how to best fulfill HIS wishes for his property.
 
Stan,
Subdividing your half of "almost 4 acres" will produce 3 lots of about 1/2 acre. Do you really think you'll find someone who will pay anywhere near $500K for a lot plus the cost of building a home next to your brother and all his junk? Do your daughters want to live next to him?
 
(quoted from post at 02:00:30 05/15/14) Here is what I am gaining. I am dividing the land my Mom left my brother and my self to be divided equally in her will. As I said previously my brother will gain his 1/2 without paying a cent. Which includes the house. He is flat broke. He should be happy.What am I to do? Not honor Mothers request to divide the land in half, and leave the mess to my kids? I guess to some it looks like a win win for me. It's not. I am giving each daughter a place to build a house. My only hope is if I can brake even on the sale of one of the parcels. Stan
Click to expand...

Did your mother wish for the ownership of the property to be divided in half? Or did she wish for the property to be divided in half with each of you owning separate parcels? Judging by what you've posted previously your mother's wishes were for the property to be divided with you owning one parcel and your brother the other. If that's the case it was poor planning on her part to not divide the property herself. So you're stuck with the situation at hand.

Go ahead and divide the land. Hire a wrecker to move the trucks to your brother's half of the property. The cost of hiring a wrecker is inconsequential compared to what it costs to divide the land. Since you seem to have a problem with your brother's possessions (I believe you called them junk trucks), you could even have them moved to an area of his portion of the property that is the least visible from yours.

Your brother's financial situation is irrelevant to fulfilling the terms of your mother's will (given the info you've posted). Your brother being a perceived hoarder is irrelevant to fulfilling the terms of your mother's will (given the info you've posted).
While it's possible or even very likely your brother has some deep seated issues, they really aren't any of your business as an executor.
Now if your concern is that of a caring brother then perhaps you need to talk to a psychologist or some other professional knowledgeable in the treatment and care of people with issues your brother exhibits.

The solution is quite simple as far as I can tell (given the info you've posted). Move the stuff to your brother's part of the property and go ahead with your land split.
Then you can decide whether to try to get him some professional help or not.
 
(quoted from post at 07:48:22 05/14/14) Mom left almost four acres to me and my brother. I am dealing with the city on a lot split to give him equal share of the land. He has at least 10 vehicles mostly on what I will end up with. These things are all needing major repair. All I get from him is I am going to fix them. A couple examples one ford 4X4 needing a front axle rebuilt. I offered to have it repaired at a shop, needs ring and pinion. He wants to buy all the tools and set it up him self. At 69 I doubt he will ever be setting up another differential. A 80 Dodge pickup needing a transmission He removes the tires, and sand blasted the wheels. The paint is never right, and has redone it several times. He never married and lived in the house with Mom until she died, and still does. The estate pays everything except for water and electricity. The house is a disaster junk piled everywhere. Mail piles up in the mail box. Water has been shut off, because he hasn't pain the bill. Mom left me as executor. I guess it is partly my fault for letting it get so far out of hand. Just wondering if anyone has had to deal with a hoarder, and how did you handle it? Stan
Click to expand...

Since it appears your brother has no heirs, I assume his share will go to your family when he dies?? If so, agree to pay his utilities, write his will with the specifics, and wait him out. If he outlives you, your heirs can have all the fun....
 
37chief- is the two acres worth more than the relationship between you two(brothers)?.

If it is then, pull his junk over onto his side of the property.

or,

If he lived in the same house with your Mom until she passed..I would assume he took care of her daily needs???? yes, no, maybe??

Anyway, he is your brother and blood kin. How can you even consider what you posted?

If that two acres is so important to you, then move his chit to his side of the property and quit fretting about it.

Myself?.. I'd be more concerned about my brother.

Greg
 
Jerry Springer is now reviewing posts on this forum looking for new talent for his show. If selected, will you and your brother be willing to punch and bite each other on camera? Also do either of you weigh over 350 pounds? and importantly, do you frequently use the F-word, so we can have lots of bleeps on screen?
 
Forgot to add-
"Myself?.. I'd be more concerned about my brother."

What I meant there was his well-being not about his "Hoarding" practices as you call it. Sorry, I don't see this as 'hoarding'.

Greg
 
What makes you guys think I hate my brother. we get along good. we just argue about his junk. Who is Jerry Springer? Stan
 
Mom took care of him until she broke her hip. While in the hospital recovering she fell out of bed went into a coma, never recovered, and died. stan
 
37CHIEF- I'm sorry about the loss of your Mother. Mine died a week ago today. I understand, it hurts...

Greg
 
(quoted from post at 04:12:05 05/15/14) Mom took care of him until she broke her hip. While in the hospital recovering she fell out of bed went into a coma, never recovered, and died. stan
Click to expand...
Stan, I too am sorry about you losing your mom, but I can't help but think there's more to the story.
Why did your mom take care of your brother? Does he have some special needs that require help from others?

Were your mom's wishes that the land be split? Or were her wishes that you and your brother own equal shares of the same parcel?

Since you're dividing the land why don't you just have your brother's "junk" moved to his part of the property? Since it seems to bother you, you could fence off a storage area with privacy fence. That seems like a very quick and cheap solution to your problem.
 
Quotes "He has at least 10 vehicles mostly on what I will end up with" "left me the executor"

Translation....I want the good and salable half of the property and my brother has left his junk on it. How do i get him off it so I can sell it and leave him with the bad part?
 
do as your Mother wished.
divide the land in half.
It's your brother, help him move all his stuff onto his land.
Now it's done.
Anything that comes up with a new owner and your brother is their business.
City and your brothers stuff? their business.


modern world...
rich yuppies = collectors
rich yuppies with massive amounts of stuff = eccentric collectors.
you and me with lots of projects and stuff = mentally ill hoarders
 
C'mon. Just move his stuff over to his property. You will have for-filled your part of the agreement and you will be viewed as the person that did the 'Right Thing'. I'm 65 and have a LOT of 'stuff' that could be viewed as junk by a lot of folks, but it all means something to me. When he, or I, die, then you can do whatever you want, IF it's in your ownership. It's easy to say 'hoarding' is a mental illness, but do you really know what is in that fellows mind? Let him be; otherwise YOU might be on the wrong side of the 'Law'!
 
I think your arithmetic is a bit off - like by about 2-1/2 acres. Acre lot will subdivide into 8 half acre lots less the amount needed to provide access to the entire property.
 
jimg.allentown said "I think your arithmetic is a bit off - like by about 2-1/2 acres. Acre lot will subdivide into 8 half acre lots less the amount needed to provide access to the entire property."

jimg.allentown- 37Chief only gets 1/2 of the 4 acres. So his share would be 2 acres. Which subdivided into 1/2 acre lots will be. .4 lots, not 8.
Greg
 
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