What do you look for in a Machine Shop?

My question is this: What do you look for in a Machine shop?

Cast iron repair?
Welding?
Lathe work?
Milling machine work?
Forming of parts?
CNC cutting of parts?
Heat treating?
Press work?
Line boring? Delivery?
Obviously, cost is important, but how important?
What problems do you have that you have not been able to get help for?

I recently opened a small machine shop with my focus on the Agriculture industry. I want to serve my customers to the best of my ability and give them the most bang for their buck. I offer pick up and delivery service for jobs over $250. Would this make you choose me over the competition if the price and quality was the same? There are 4 different machine shops in Salem, Oregon area where I live, but I don't think any of them focus on agriculture. I want to be the "go to" machine shop for the farmers in my community.

I own 4 CASE and one John Deere tractor but do not farm. I just enjoy working on them a showing them at our local Ag show.

Thank you for your input. I appreciate it very much!

Please feel free to email me at the link above, Zane.

First thing I look for is some old white hair/no hair guys that know their stuff.

Sorry to say but I think there's a reason not too many machine shops focus on agriculture. Farmers for the most part like to try fix things themselves whenever they can. Nothing against farmers but a lot of the farmers I've been around aren't very willing to pay what professional shops need to charge. I was considering setting a shop with welding and fabricating equipment and assistance to farmers and other DIY's who wanted to build/repair their own projects. They could pay so much an hour for use of the shop and tools they needed. I sent out about 1000 survey forms to a rural community and had very little response. The few responses I did get said they were only willing to pay about $15 hour for shop space including all the welders, torches, saws etc. Good machine shops here are charging $150/hr and more!!!

Several yrs ago , I took the 1952 Ford 6 cyl OHV engine which I had completely torn down , washed inside & out plus had thorouly soaked it thru my Electrolysis system to remove yrs of built up & baked on crud . Plus derusted everything . Then I painted the inside with Rustoleum Red Oxide primer . I figured after talking with a couple local car buffs & getting tips for best machine shop preperations that it was ready . Then I got a recommendation for a machine shop & auto parts operation . So I loaded everything in boxes , hauled it about 40 miles to talk to the owner & machinist . The owner gave me two estimates . First was to do all the machining only . Second was to do all the machining ,provide all new parts , rebuild it & have it all ready to install into my 1952 8n Funk conversion for $1250.00 plus tax . So I figured why not since I've never done a full rebuild myself . Well about a month or so later , the guy called to say my engine was finished so come & get it . I drove out & parked by the shops big door to load it up . I didn't see an assembled engine so I went & found the owner . He came out to the shop with paperwork in hand . With a tow motor , they started searching for my engine amongst an assortment of others sitting around . what they gave me was a bare block , my head which I had already done by another machine shop previously & boxes of misc parts . To beat it all , they had lost the fan/hub assembly which as would guess was unreplaceable now days . He did provide some of the new parts needed for assembly but said being the cylinders bored out at .060 in order to be aqble to clean up the walls & he didn't have the new pistons / rings for it so I'd have to do a search . Guess what my bill was for his so called completely rebuilt & ready to install job . it sure wasn't what he promised me & I do wish i would've gotten it all in writing when I left it off . It cost me $1895.00 plus tax . By the time I was fortunate enough to locate a replacement fan/hub assembly out in California I had another $90.00 plus s/h invested . And it was the only one still available & I called all over looking . Next the search for new pistons , rings & pins which I found thru EGGS for another $500.00 (if memory serves me rite) .Then came the gaskets I needed . So that engine rebuild got me into around $2800.00 by the time it was done .So after my long story , my recommendation for you is to always be honest & a man of your words with people . Especially newbies with no experience because word of mouth can be damaging to your future . Also have official work write up forms & estimates . Get signatures .Honesty can't be expressed strong enough . Now I have a flathead Ford v8 engine which is thorouly prepped & ready . So, I hope to send to a more trusting machine shop this time soon .My only problem I know of up front is my finances for this rebuild . I will have to somehow coat it with some kind of preservative & bag it until someone drops some moola off at my door (teehee).Good luck in your plans & God bless , Ken

Cost is a major part, too many guys buy some machines, set up shop and think thier services are worth a fortune. I'm lucky there are many machine shops in the area. I only use one because the first time I went there and dropped off some work he went above and beyond what we talked about. I know when something leaves his shop it will be 100%. Because I trust him and his work, I don't even shop around, he's my man. From his standpoint, by doing great work and having happy customers, there is a good chance they will be back next time so a little extra now pays off down the road. One last thing, if you give a price for a job and you go over, do everything you can not to pass it on to the customer because word travels in small towns and your business will be as successful as your reputation.

I use machine shops for nearly every thing you mentioned, except welding and some lathe work. The main thing , if you are doing agri work,is to get it done right now! Most machines break down when needed, so you need a man or two that can be pulled away from other jobs to strip a machine and get it fixed. Cost is the next issue. If you can keep prices down you will get enough work to even out the cost. I have seen many good machine shops here get greedy and now they are closed. Yet we have a few small machine shops where the guys that worked in the closed shops are now working to help them keep up with the work, just because they are reasonable with their rates. The most successful shop around here has about 4 guys doing contract work for factories, all day every day and two guys who do every other job that comes in.....The boss only employs guys reared on farms, so they don"t mind stripping a muck spreader!He isn"t afraid to get his hands dirty either........sometimes people come in and ask him where the boss is! But above all do good work and put yourself in the customers boots and think what you would like to pay for the job.....Also insist on payment before the job leaves the shop, Make no exceptions!......Good luck with your venture.......Sam

Quality work, quick turn around time, also keep it clean if I see a dirty, messy shop I wonder if that dirt ends up in my parts.

All the things you mention are important.

I knew a guy (if he is still alive he is in his mid 80s) He quoted a guy $50 per hole to rebore the cylinders on a 4 cylinder tractor engine. And money to machine the face where the cylinder head bolts to. The guy threw his arms up "thats a rip off" This was 10-12 years ago. Ok, then get it done somewhere else. (the guy was going to rebore the engine on a boring mill too) If you want it done cheap then you likely want it done wrong.

If that shop pulls someone off another job, you can be assured the other customer wants their parts as much as you. You should be willing to pay a higher rate for rush work.

Your word Needs to count for something. All the rest doesn't matter.

Time estimates need to be right.

Cost estimates need to be right.

Things happen and I understand once you open so,etching up, and some of my jobs 'take your time' and some I need yesterday; understand this and work with me as I work with you.

The cluttered shops seem to be the better ones around here.....

Did I mention timeliness? When my stuff breaks in season, I need to know when I get it back. I don't know or care what half your machines are; can you do the job and what is the timeframe?

Paul

I work at a machine shop in east central mn. We have farmers come from 75 miles away to get parts made. We are a gear shop but have a mill lathe welder and CNC machines along with the gear manufacturing. We charge $50 per hour.

There is a local shop that has a sign posted.

All rush jobs will be charged at double labor rate to pay for mechanic overtime.

You need to concentrate on Automotive machine work or conventional machine work,not both. I have been in business for over 35 year. I work on all brands of tractors,off road equipment,do all types of welding, metal stitching and some machine work. Line bore bucket bushings and arms on heavy equipment, but I still get my automotive machine work done somewhere else. We have four shops in my area and I have used them all and they all suck. It takes from 3 to 6 weeks to get anything done, sometimes it is right sometimes it is not. My advice,stick to one thing,do a good job at a fair price, don't take on more work than you can do,to keep the delivery time within reason, and you will do well.

I was self employed for 18 years until I got disabled. At times I was cleaning the shop looking for work. At times I was working 12 - 16 hours a day to keep up. If you are on your own you will have to be flexible. 8 hour days won't cut it. I did engine rebuilding, automatic trannys, welding etc.

Seems to me those are questions you should have asked before opening a shop.

Like StickWelding said catering to farmers is going to be tough. You'd likely find it better to cater to the heavy equipment guys. The real money to be made will be doing work for industry.

As others have said, when equipment is down the owner wants/needs it back up and running ASAP. If you're out picking up or delivering parts, you're not in the shop being productive. If you do pick up and deliver, you have to charge for it.

I don't know the costs involved with running a machine shop, but I'm quite familiar with the costs of running some other businesses. Rent or mortgage, maintenance on the shop, utilities, property taxes, office supplies, insurance on the building and contents, business liability insurance (which could be extremely costly if you do welding or fabricate any automotive parts), legal and accounting costs, business licenses, office equipment, shop tools and equipment, consumables, shop truck and associated costs, don't forget advertising, and if you have employees there will be workers comp insurance, unemployment insurance (tax), health insurance, retirement plan contributions, etc, etc, etc. And you have to draw a salary and make a profit.
Your hourly rate is important. Don't under value your work. It's a tough go to cater to the price only crowd. You won't make any much more than wages when you work for them, and that type of customer is always looking for someone that will do the work cheaper than you.
I suspect your hourly rate would have to be in the $120-$150 an hour range for your shop to be profitable. The customers you want won't bat an eye at that price.
Service is much more important than price. Under promise and over deliver.

I know a guy that owns a small machine shop. He does all the typical work you'd expect. His bread and butter is doing work for industry.

Your sitting around waiting for guys to break stuff. You need to make a product. Something like special tools for aircraft or something high dollar. The hot rodders,four wheel drive , bikers ,and farmers are just extra money fill in jobs. Personnally I go by the smell. If it smells like carb cleaner or cutting oil I'm in. Free decals are for me too!

Most all of what you have to offer will be in demand at one time or another, hard to say what or when will be the most work for you depending on the area, the season and about 100 other unknown factors.
I wrenched on light + medium duty vehicles and equipment at my shop, with plenty of machine shops in the area to work with.
Some specialized in engines, aluminum welding etc.
They would tend to get those jobs as they were usually the most efficient.
When it came to oddball, one off, strange and panic jobs there was one shop that would drop what they were doing and get it done.
That was the shop where I sent all the gravy jobs.
The you scratch my back and I scratch yours system.
At my shop everybody was treated equal I could care less if you were a big operation or a young guy just starting out every ones problem was important or they wouldnt have come to see me.
The guys running big companies seemed to respect that you were not trying to kiss hind side and the young guys appreciated not being looked down upon.
5-10 years later those young guys are the ones running the show and they will remember you and the way they were treated and come knocking on your door with there work.

Dad"s worked on construction and farm equipment for over 40 years, and I spent a few years in the Navy working in the engine rooms, a few more doing industrial maintenance, and have worked on construction and farm equipment since I was old enough to turn a wrench. We both also do welding and fabrication, portable line boring, as well as some machine work to support everything else we do.

That all said, after reading all of the other replies, there really isn"t a lot to add to what the others have said. Given my and Dad"s experience, pretty much everything stated so far you can take for gospel when it comes to the attitudes of the folks coming through the door so far as what they expect you do, as well as what they want, or don"t want, to pay.

About the only thing I can add, and it has been sort of covered, but not necessarily in the way I look at things is this. Don"t forget the walk in customers that have a thirty minute job they need done right away. In my experience you can usually tell if their serious about the need or not, and those that are don"t mind paying a little extra to get pushed to the front of the line. Yes, you might have another job going on that is going to take you a full 10 hour day, but if your working for yourself it"s not that bog of a deal to just keep working til that job is done before calling it a day.

I say this because those folks are the best kind of advertising you can ever get. I know I was working out of town the other week and needed the end of a push-pull cable machined down a little bit and threaded. Not getting it done right away would have cost me/the customer another 200 mile round trip, or another night in a motel, along with the wasted day not having the needed part. I figure it took the guy maybe 15 minutes to do what I needed, and he charged me $40 to do the job. Frankly I was expecting at least $100, and given the alternative would have gladly paid it, so I didn"t bat an eye at the $40. That said, I may never work in that area again, or need his help, but I will gladly tell anyone else I know that"s working in the area to see him if they need something done.

As far as scheduling in those 30 minute jobs, working on equipment myself I run into the same kind of thing on regular occasion. Heck my day Tuesday went from 8AM til nearly 11PM because I had things already planned that I had to do, but also had two customers needing problems taken care of on their equipment so they could use it the next day. The way I see it, as long as I get the things I am committed to done, anything else that comes along is just something you have to learn to work around as part of being in a business like this.

In the end it all comes down to keeping as many customers as happy as possible. Never will they all be as happy as we"d like them to be, but I"ve found that if you help a guy out of a jamb today, he"s going to be a little more understanding the next time he needs something done and the situation is reversed. Heck I"ve got one guy that"s been waiting on me for several months to repack a cylinder for him. It"s costing him a little extra due to the oil lost, but he also knows I"ve had a really pressing situation, with a deadline, I"ve had to get handled over the past few months, and that if it was a true emergency, that I would find a way to get him taken care of right away even if I had to work 24/7 to get everything done. Customers like that are hard to find and are ones you want to hang on to. They are also the kind that will get your name out there into the community and bring more work to your door. In that regard Dad went on his own in "86, and I started working with him in "97, and did so until about 6 years ago when Dad called it quits. In all those years I am the only one that has ever done any advertising, and that was a few years back when times were really tight. It brought me in one machine that is still sitting outside, with the guy owing me over $2,000 dollars for labor toward it and another machine he had me work on. Beyond that every other job I have done is from customers brought to me by word of mouth. One awhile back heard about me from a customer up in the mountains that I did work for over 10 years ago. In other words, do a good job and people don"t forget, and the work will come. Do people wrong and people don"t forget, and you"ll be working for someone else really quick.

machinery wise, you can get some CNC machines if you want, but never forget that most repair jobs require one off parts that usually aren"t profitable to do on a CNC machine, so don"t forget the manual lathe and mill. Too, keep a good supply of steel stock on hand. It really helps to have a piece on the shelf when someone needs that 30 minute part and you can pick up the piece and go to work, without a trip to the steel supplier for a 20 foot stick of material to get the 6 inch piece you really need.

Beyond that, Good luck.

Here is what I look for in my area.

Skill ranks above and beyond. Distance is also a major factor. Also keep materials on hand.

As for farmer machine shops in my area there are only two. One of them you are better off chewing up some bubblegum and fixing it that way yourself. The other which is a bit further does very good work at a fair price.

As for making a living at this serving the farming community alone you will starve. Had a young man start one up here in the home town. He did excellant work and I wish he was still in business. Reason he shut down is he was running a flame cutting table making parts for local manufacturing. I recognized that if those accounts ever dried up he was done. Fortunatly he did also. When that work dried up in the slowdown he shut his doors and went to work for one of the local manufacturing plants.

What I am saying here is do good work. Keep a decent inventory of material. Above all have some steady work lined up to keep the doors open.

jt

For me I need cost estimates to be accurate and I need to know about any problems. Obviously quality is important.

Another is material on hand. One place I try to patronize I often can't because I need it ASAP and they have to order supplies. Admittedly when I do go in, it's odd ball stuff, but the place they order from is only 20 miles away... so many times when they say they can't today, I just drive to the other shop.

I like the guys though and they do good work.

Thank you for the replies! Please keep them coming! I have a full plate working for the farms around me but I am just trying to see how I can serve them better. I am also doing work for some of the constuction outfits in town.

I appreciate ALL of the comments and will use them to better serve my customers!

Zane

If you work on tractor engines and old engines, advertise that heavily.
I have some good machine shops near me, but most are
for the race car crowd (circle tracks and dragstrip nearby)
good work, but very expensive and they aren't familiar with tractor stuff at all. Let people know that you are.
Also, if you have a minimum charge, keep it flexible and reasonable.
Needed one 5/8" hole drilled once in a block of steel that was beyond my shop tools. around the corner industrial type machine shop had a very high minimum and wouldn't budge.
I had to have the hole, so I paid it, but I won't go back.

Zane, what part of the country are you in?

I am located in Salem, Oregon.