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Not meaning to start a row!

S

samn40

Well-known Member
As Bob said in his post below( re Tactor Loyalty)........Quote...
"there's not much left of Case or IH or Ford or McCormick in CIH or
CNH!" That got me thinking......well there is still some of the
Ferguson Heritage in todays modern Agco Masseys, but is there
much of the original Deere in todays modern Deeres?.....Is there
even much of the stuff that was in the Deeres back when Ford and
IH sold out to become CNH/CIH? in todays modern Deeres? I don't
really know, as we did not have many of the older Deeres over here,
but from what I can see of todays sample of Deeres offered here a
lot of changes have taken place........Sam
 
Not to mention that the original tractors that Deere claims or claimed to be their own were Waterloo Boys. Deere bought the company. So I guess you could say the company was bought out. You wouldn't be lying. The Dane tractor that Deere first put their name on was such a miserable failure that they bought them all back and destroyed them.
 
INTERESTING anti-DEERE diatribe!

Funny thing is I never mentioned the word "DEERE" in my post.

I just mentioned there was ONE farm machinery company that had survived on their own/kept their own name for 177 years!

Despite all the negatives, they must have done SOMETHING right over the years?
 
My understanding of the DAIN tractor was that there were about 100 built as prototype/experimental units.The engineer Joe Dain who was responsible for their development died and the project died with him. Deere had other experimental tractor projects on the go at the time that didn't work out(as did the entire farm implement industry at the time)Deere elected to purchase the Waterloo Boy mfg.co and leap frogged into the tractor busines. Of course the D was the first tractor that Deere developed from the ground up and they seemed to do OK (LOL)
 
Bob, I don't remember relating the company that is still going 177 years later and the Deere tractors! ....I was talking about Deere tractors changing as much as any other.... Remember I said I don't know much about them?? LOL.........Sam
 
John Deere the man, never saw his company build a tractor. He built plows.
They bought up Waterloo boy and started in tractors after he died.

Now they build 4 models of tractors, 6, 7, 8 and 9. (M, R, etc) starting at
about 140HP. Anything smaller tractor wise is built somewhere else by
someone else as I understood it when we visited their factories.

This excludes non-tractor items like combines, sprayers and planters.
They still make those. They also build engines for some 170 other companies
if IIRC. I don't know for sure, but I doubt they make plows.
Mainly because most farmers don't use them anymore.

Companies must evolve to survive and I'd say they've done just that.
Not that I like it all that much. I'd love to buy a new 40-50 HP utility
tractor built in Waterloo, IA. But that just ain't gonna happen.
Similar story with other brands, they just didn't keep the name.
 
I believe it is fair to say that the "D" had considerable Waterloo Boy heritage.
 
Mr. rrLund,

John Deere didn't buy back "ALL" of the Dain type tractors as there is some complete examples of them in the country.
 
Well a company can have a less than perfect product, but have a great marketing staff and back up that average product with good parts and service backup to keep it in the field, and you have a winning combination.
Many a company has built better products, but failed to deliver on the parts and service end, and failed to exploit every marketing avenue available to them.
That's the reason that the yellow wheels are still turning.
Loren, the Acg.
 
A new Deere is related to a 4020 about as much as a new CIH is related to a 1066. To stir the pot a bit more, Deere bought the combine business from Caterpillar many years ago when Cat decided to get out of building harvesters. I think they paid a million for the whole shebang. It's also claimed Cyrus McCormick did not invent the reaper and Oliver lays claim to the first steel plow through an acquisition. Folklore? I don't know. Jim
 
James Oliver was a metallurgist. He invented the "chilled plow" process that allowed cast iron to be slightly flexible and not shatter like glass when made in such a way that it would take a super smooth non stick shine. He patented the process but never sued anybody who used it. In fact,his factory that built the Oliver Chilled Plow was in South Bend and there was another company called the South Bend Chilled Plow Company that used his process for 25 years. He chose not to even sue them. He said he would let his plows sell themselves.

There was another company who used his process without permission. The Syracuse Chilled Plow Company. I have a wooden beam plow out in the barn with that name on it. Deere bought the Syracuse Chilled Plow Company and sold plows that used the process invented and patented by James Oliver.
 
John Deere is very good at buying up or copying other ideas and using those as basis for a pretty solid, most of the time durable product.

As well they are good at running a business that has lots of ups and downs and changes over the years.

Paul
 
Sam, you didn't mean to start a row??? That's funny. Your original question never really was answered, was it? JD, like most others, has gone with newer designs (not all that great, IMHO) and come up with the more modern tractor. Plastics, of course, being easy to mold, have been used more. And, much to my chagrin more than once, they employed some mad Bavarian puzzlemakers as injinears. Last week they couldn't spell 'injinear'- now they are one!

My 2520 and 4240 really aren't much different, but a big step from my old 'B'. Then, I look at my 6400, and it's a completely different machine, except for a similar engine and round wheels. But, then again, the 'B' is again, a totally different design- but still has round wheels.

Like Ferguson, the only thing the same is the wheels and engine- MF over here looks like an AGCO from the centertube back, but the Perkins engine. White has a Cummins, the AGCO has a Fiat, and they all share the same tail end- or so it seems from what I can see.

A lot of change has come down the pike in the last 75 years, and a bunch of changes in the industry. What was 20 HP then was enough to start to mechanize agriculture, but those machines are today's play toys. But, rugged and reliable they were- a testimony to the introduction of the machine age and simple and reliable tools of a trade.
 
Other than the pistons going up and down and the wheels going around and around, nothing I can think of that is similar in older Deere's and the newer ones, like all the rest of the current tractors.
 
pete- I have a car that has no pistons and it runs fine. Although I understand it's not a tractor. LOL!

BTW, it's not a electric or hybrid.

Made in 1987.

Greg
 
I hope the old Deere tractors are better. I bought a new one and had to give it back. It was defective from the getgo and they wouldn't fix it.
 
Does anybody remember when Evenrude put that Wankel rotary in a snowmobile? A guy out east of town had one.
 
Can't say that I remember an Evinrude with a Wankel, but Arctic cat used 2 different models of rotary engines in their snowmobiles. I had a 73 Panther and a 74 Lynx with 295 cc Wankel engines Kind of hex shaped engines. Earlier years had a Wankel that was round
 
They have all changed. Other than the fact they are designed to pull tillage and harvesting implements and have round wheel, except for the tracked ones. And you hear all kinds of claims. Like IH had the first diesel tractor when Cat sold ag crawler tractors with a diesel before IH sold diesel wheel tractors. JD may not have been the first with live IPTO in 1948 when they had it as an option on the R but they beat IH to the punch on that too. That's just for the guys who like to attack JD. I have NO loyalty to any brand but there are some I try to stay away from. AGCO has pretty much dropped the AC and White paint and only kept the MF name alive. But the only major brand that is still in the same hands so to speak is JD. AC, White, Oliver and MM all died when AC shut down. MF sold out to AGCO. IH died and was acquired by Case which sold out and is now owned by FIAT. Ford got out of the AG business and was absorbed by NH who has now been acquired by FIAT. So really the only 2 tractor/equipment manufactures that have survived at Cat and JD.

But onto the OP's question. No, other than round wheels and piston engines nothing has survived. There have been so many improvements in engine and transmission design that nothing has survived except the paint colors on certain brands.

Rick
 
yep sure do , as we used to sell them when I worked at service station in the later 70's.
they were a poor engine and did not last, but the mazda goes mmmmmm. remember that commercial when they were advertising that.
 
This may or may not relate, but out cycling outside Springfield MO last weekend, we went by a real big factory, labelled CNH-REMAN. Anybody know what that is?
 
(quoted from post at 22:23:11 04/28/14) Deere has a plant in Augusta Georgia that builds 40-60 hp. Tractors.
Click to expand...
From the Deere website: "The Augusta Factory is an assembly factory only"
Nothing actually built there. Link to the site
 
Johnson/Evenrude had some factory racers/experimental outboards somewhere along those years. Never sold to public that I know of. Not sure what problems they had, must not have worked out for them.
 
There was a hundred made and all 100 sold they were about a 1200.00 dollar tractor they wanted one to sell for about 900 I'll get the exact number when I get home that's why they bought the Waterloo boy company . You are trying to combine they 8010 with the dain tractor the 8010 they bought back ;renumbered the 8020 . The anti Deere guys cannot stand that they are pretty much the only company that hasn't been bought and resold fifty times.
 
The 5000 series has a deere built engine either
from there saran plant or they have another plant
that builds em but no they aren't USA made
components
 
A friend of mine in Connecticut has 2 Wankle powered OMC outboards-a Johnson and an Evinrude. OMC only built 4 of these-2 of each brand- for racing purposes.
 
(quoted from post at 03:21:40 04/29/14) They have all changed. Other than the fact they are designed to pull tillage and harvesting implements and have round wheel, except for the tracked ones. And you hear all kinds of claims. Like IH had the first diesel tractor when Cat sold ag crawler tractors with a diesel before IH sold diesel wheel tractors. JD may not have been the first with live IPTO in 1948 when they had it as an option on the R but they beat IH to the punch on that too. That's just for the guys who like to attack JD. I have NO loyalty to any brand but there are some I try to stay away from. AGCO has pretty much dropped the AC and White paint and only kept the MF name alive. But the only major brand that is still in the same hands so to speak is JD. AC, White, Oliver and MM all died when AC shut down. MF sold out to AGCO. IH died and was acquired by Case which sold out and is now owned by FIAT. Ford got out of the AG business and was absorbed by NH who has now been acquired by FIAT. So really the only 2 tractor/equipment manufactures that have survived at Cat and JD.

But onto the OP's question. No, other than round wheels and piston engines nothing has survived. There have been so many improvements in engine and transmission design that nothing has survived except the paint colors on certain brands.

Rick
Click to expand...
at actually sold out it's ag. line to agco that's the challenger line now. and Nh never absorbed ford fiat bought them in 1995 and just used the new holland name because it was a household name in the U.S.AND HOLT WAS THE PREDECESSOR TO THE CAT CRAWLER.and you left cockshutt out of the loop as they were the first with live pto. lots of tractors were/are better than jd just poor management.
 
(quoted from post at 20:35:39 04/28/14)
(quoted from post at 03:21:40 04/29/14) They have all changed. Other than the fact they are designed to pull tillage and harvesting implements and have round wheel, except for the tracked ones. And you hear all kinds of claims. Like IH had the first diesel tractor when Cat sold ag crawler tractors with a diesel before IH sold diesel wheel tractors. JD may not have been the first with live IPTO in 1948 when they had it as an option on the R but they beat IH to the punch on that too. That's just for the guys who like to attack JD. I have NO loyalty to any brand but there are some I try to stay away from. AGCO has pretty much dropped the AC and White paint and only kept the MF name alive. But the only major brand that is still in the same hands so to speak is JD. AC, White, Oliver and MM all died when AC shut down. MF sold out to AGCO. IH died and was acquired by Case which sold out and is now owned by FIAT. Ford got out of the AG business and was absorbed by NH who has now been acquired by FIAT. So really the only 2 tractor/equipment manufactures that have survived at Cat and JD.

But onto the OP's question. No, other than round wheels and piston engines nothing has survived. There have been so many improvements in engine and transmission design that nothing has survived except the paint colors on certain brands.

Rick
Click to expand...
at actually sold out it's ag. line to agco that's the challenger line now. and Nh never absorbed ford fiat bought them in 1995 and just used the new holland name because it was a household name in the U.S.AND HOLT WAS THE PREDECESSOR TO THE CAT CRAWLER.and you left cockshutt out of the loop as they were the first with live pto. lots of tractors were/are better than jd just poor management.
Click to expand...

You can still buy AG cats with steel tracks, build on the dozer. Holt and Best were predecessor seeing as they both got together under one roof. I didn't say JD was first. I said they beat IH to the punch and said Cat was 1st to offer a diesel Ag tractor.

Rick
 
CIH and the larger NH tractor transmissions have roots in the STS IH trans.
JD still has their quad transmissions.
JD still has green paint and CIH still uses a similar red to IHC.
If you look at the 7100/7200/8900 series Magnums you can see some IHC heritage in the shape of the cabs and hoods. Too bad they don't have the torquey IHC engines though....
You can see it in the progression through the Steiger's, too.
Everyone today uses the forward cab placement first found on the 86 series IH.
 
You'd think I'd know by now this is one subject where there's always a handful with no sense of humor at all and can't take a little friendly ribbing and give it back without making it personal right out of the box.
I'll stop stepping on tender toes unless somebody starts ribbing me about it first I guess.
 
It's where they rebuild Case-New Holland parts for resale as "Reman." Rotating electrical, fuel system, transmissions, pumps, engines and so on. Quite a facility.
 
Of course the Deeres of today are hardly anything like their predessors from 50 to 75 years ago. They woulden't be in business if they were. Out of all the different brand tractors that used to be made here Deere alone survived. Deere was never the only good tractor, just the best in most of their markets and they strived to keep it that way. That means changing. I wish I could still drive up town and walk through the new AC's, FORD's, and Case's but those days are long gone.
 
(quoted from post at 20:34:03 04/28/14) FUNNY the thread turned to Wankels, considering DEERE owned the rights for a while and tried to develop them, and gave up!
Bye Bye Wankel
Click to expand...

Actually what's missed in that story is the for a while JD was pitching the "Wankel" as a replacement for the turbine engine in the M1 series tank. By the time JD had a workable model the Army had a large number of the turbines both in tanks and in the supply line as replacements. The army decided that it would be too expensive to replace the turbine. That was a blow to JD.

Rick
 
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