OT: HVAC Wisdom Needed

Kajun · Apr 17, 2014

Folks:
Need to mine your collective wisdom and experience. Twelve year old HVAC system for my house [ Trane XE 1200 ] failed two days ago. This unit has copper coils [ inside and out ] and is an R22 Unit. Technician recommends whole new system [inside air handler and outside compressor ]. Technician recommends against replacing outside compressor only --- says R22 will be too expensive in future and that inside air-handler , because coils are copper , can"t handle the increased pressure at which R-410A operates. Also says the "new aluminum " from which current models are manufactured is superior to copper.

I"m considering just replacing the actual compressor inside the outside unit . Need your views on [1 ] what technician is saying and [ 2 ]my proposed course of action.

Obliged.

rrc300 u · Apr 17, 2014

The tech you had out there is correct about the newer coils. I'm nor sure what trane co recommends but I would be almost certain your system isnt compatible with 410a. A new compressor is a cheap fix and would most likely be fine. A newsystem would be more expensive but I would think have lower operation costs. Make him price it out both ways. He's not gonna like to do that but you gotta ask. R22 is still available but is not getting any cheaper. If its one of the outdoor coils that looks like a tube covered with Christmas tinsel get rid of it p>HVAC is my line of work 14 years

Anonymous-0 · Apr 17, 2014

One of the biggest things to look at is warranty. Most likely the compressor replacement is going to be at or over $1000.00 and you will still have a 12 year old system. Many companies, carrier, payne, air temp, etc have 10 year parts warranties available. I almost always try to talk my customers of older systems into a new system just for the piece of mind the warranty will give.... Did the compressor lock up, burn out, or?? If it burnt out and made acid you could be in for a lot of future issues.. As far as R-22 it's not gone up as much as many would like to say, 410 is still more expensive... Depends on their markup, but the day will come..

Dick2 · Apr 17, 2014

Get bids from other HVAC dealers as well. As things go, I wouldn't consider spending any money on the old unit. It's pretty similar to spending a lot of money to remodel an old house - you still end up with an old unit that is not worth much (if any) than it was when you poured money into it.

Also get the longest warranty, IN WRITING, that you can get. With the price of service calls these days, a long warranty is the way to go.

Kajun · Apr 17, 2014

Men :

Thanks for the guidance ; may I have a little more ,please.

What is issue with the tinsel covered coils or whatever ? My Trane has this. This is a Twelve SEER unit and it has worked very efficiently.

According to technician [ I asked what was wrong with compressor ] ,the unit burned up . In his words , "when I tested it ,it drew 157 ohms [? ]" .

Lennox sells a dry-charged outside compressor that it holds out as compatible with R22.It has a five year warranty and a Seer rating of 13.

Thoughts on my further questions? Rest assured I appreciate the help.

rrc300 u · Apr 17, 2014

Those type of coils are difficult to clean and are very easily damaged by an acid type cleaner. The bond between the copper tube and the tinsel material is compromised pretty easily. sounds like you might need to call for a second opinion. You need to know if the compressor is locked up, burned out or open thermal overload ,maybe a bad capacitor ....... Could be a bunch of stuff. 157 ohms doesn't mean much without knowing where it was read.

kevinj54 · Apr 17, 2014

Is this thing a heat pump or just a cooling unit?

Kajun · Apr 17, 2014

Again , my thanks.

This is air heat pump / ac unit . When I called , I told their office I thought was capacitor . I repeated same to technician when he got to my house . He made his tests and then reported burned up. Those words are generic stuff to me so I didn't ask for details other than how he concluded it was burned up.

Will get clarification on whether burned up , locked up etc.

Will be next week 'cause of Easter.

Obliged to all for sure.

Dick2 · Apr 17, 2014

If the capacitor is bad, the unit will try to start, buzz for a few seconds and then quit. After 2-3 tries, it will usually start up after the pressure in the system has bled down.

When the capacitor on our heat pump went out, I checked around. The local parts house will only sell to known repairmen; will not sell to the public.

I checked Amazon with the part number and found it was available from an outside vendor for $26.95 with free shipping. I had replaced capacitors on electric motors many years ago, so it only took 15 minutes to install the new one. The unit starts right up now with no buzzing.

Cmore · Apr 17, 2014

Had same thing happen to my 27 year old Trane . Compressor went out, was going to be 2600 to replace I replaced the whole unit both inside and out with a new Trane SEER 18 , my old one was an SEER 12. Coast me $8,300 for whole deal. I"d spent less than $200 on the old heat pump in 27 years!! It really IS hard to stop a Trane! Neighbor has replaced two Carriers in last 15 years, I would never consider a Carrier.. They seem to last at least 4 years around here!! cmore

jimg.allentown · Apr 17, 2014

Keep in mind that the technician has a vested interest in selling you as much as possible, while at the same time making his job easier.
Having said that, keep in mind that sinking a lot of money into a 12 SEER system may not be an economical move. Going to an 18 SEER or better will most likely pay for itself in a couple of years.
R-22 has gone up significantly in the last couple of years, but most home systems take less than 10 lbs. If I were repairing the system, I would first recover the refrigerant, replace JUST the compressor, and recharge it with the same refrigerant if possible, and keep it as low cost as possible. Once again, as previously stated, you will still have a 12-year-old system at 12 SEER.

Geo-TH,In · Apr 17, 2014

At some point r22 will be rare. Last 30# bottle cost me over$400. I think it is closer to $500. There is R22A. Never used it.

I can get compressors at cost, so I would replace.

If you have pay, get the best SEER, best warranty, Best parts, labor, try to get in writing what they will do if there's a leak. Friend has a 3 year old heat pump second leak. Leaks can happen. Some are a BPIA to find.

huntingreen2day2 · Apr 17, 2014

Personally I would like the way the tech answered you about the compressor. I have never owned anything but a Trane unit but I worked for Trane for 42 plus years. I would get a couple estimates from someone who was willing to spend s little time with me going over my options.

David G · Apr 17, 2014

Check on rebates with your electric company, it is almost 50% here on high efficiency replacements.

M-MAN · Apr 17, 2014

You're taking a big chance with a lot on money replacing the compressor on a 12 year old unit. It can work out good and it can go the other way just as easy. I replaced one on an 18 year old Bryant 10 years ago that I coulden't talk a customer out of & it's still going. You never know. If it's a burnout I woulden't change the compressor under any circumstances. The failure rate is too high.

If you go with a new unit you will need everything new including the lines. From what I've seen you can forget recouping your investment with power savings over a high end 12 seer unit. It will fail before that happens. JMO

jennifer408 · Apr 18, 2014

so what im hearing here is folks can expect to replace their hvac system every 10 years for about 8,400. and change or risk spending money on an old klunker that will die any moment now. boy, talk about they sure don't make em like they used to. sheeeesh.

JMOR · Apr 18, 2014

(quoted from post at 01:11:54 04/18/14) so what im hearing here is folks can expect to replace their hvac system every 10 years for about 8,400. and change or risk spending money on an old klunker that will die any moment now. boy, talk about they sure don't make em like they used to. sheeeesh.

adly that seems to be the case. Deming's "Quality is Free" mentality took over the world. What he did was to re-define "quality" to mean the minimum requirements that a customer demands. That isn't much in our throwaway society. So, about the maximum life of central air units today is about 10 years. If the compressor doesn't fail on its own, then the paper thin coils in evap or cond will leak and compressor will burn up from lack of cooling. In all but the most high end units, over & under pressure switches have been gone for decades, now. Junk! But I still have a 1960's 1800 rpm compressor that still works! Nothing I bought in 2000 will be working 54 years down the road, as some have already quit!

W_B · Apr 18, 2014

(quoted from post at 23:25:23 04/17/14) Neighbor has replaced two Carriers in last 15 years, I would never consider a Carrier.. They seem to last at least 4 years around here!! cmore

We had a York heat pump installed about 3 yrs. ago and the compressor failed after a little over two. Our guy said they are so bad that they have stopped carrying them completely. He installed a new one for his cost, no labor charge because he felt bad about it and he's done lots of work for us in the past (electrical service, duct work in house and an A/C unit before the York heat pump, and a new Burnam oil-fired boiler). He also helped us sell the old A/C unit when the first heat pump was put in, it was only 5 yrs. old.

Geo-TH,In · Apr 18, 2014

A realtor will tell you an 18 year old heat pump is on borrowed time.

Research heat pumps, average life is 14. Doesn't mean some won't last longer.

My CPA's replaced his heat pump after 12 years. Compressor was good. They could find freon leak.

My old centeral lasted 29 years before compresson died. Only used 3 months a year, New a/c is 14 years old.

Life of a/c and HP depends on many things, hours, maintance, leaks, luck. Face it, many have issues, people make a good living repairing them.

Geo-TH,In · Apr 18, 2014

Did you replace capacitor, install har start kit?

Are you sure compressor is bad, not an electrical issue?

OT: HVAC Wisdom Needed

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