Contractor no-show

Three years ago we bought a condo in Florida. The bathroom needed the tile redone, so we asked a long-time tenant and former manager of the building for recommendations. One of his recommendations was a husband and wife team who gave us an estimate a couple of months ago. We told them up front that we had tenants in the unit, so they would need to start on April 2nd. We also wanted the job finished before we arrived here April 13th. They assured us this would be no problem. They gave us a list of materials to order from Home Depot which they would pick up. We would only pay them for their labor, which was quite reasonable.

We stayed in contact with them and I started ordering materials a month ago, telling them exactly what we were ordering and when they could pick it up. We were dealing with the wife, who seemed to handle the business side of things. Everything seemed peachy. A week before they were to start, I got a request from the wife for a complete list of everything they needed to pick up from HD. I'd already sent her all the order information, but I went ahead and resent it. Still no problem, although she said they wouldn't start until the fifth (a Saturday). We offered to send them a deposit, but she insisted that wasn't necessary.

Early last week, one of my wife's friends swung by the condo to check things out. Nothing had been done; no sign that anyone had been there at all. Meanwhile I'm continuing to get pickup reminders from HD. So my wife calls the former manager who made the recommendation and is a friend of the couple, to see if maybe he had heard or seen something. He calls them up and reads them the riot act. The husband then calls my wife, apologizing and saying that his wife was in tears over the deal. He said if we still wanted them to do the job, he would be there 8 am Monday. We agreed to have them go ahead, even though it meant they would be working on the bathroom while we were there. (Unit has two baths, so not a big problem so much as an inconvenience.) I sent an email to the wife, saying to go ahead, but stipulating that they pick up the materials ASAP, because I was getting tired of the reminders from Home Depot. She replies immediately that she'll pick the stuff up Friday.

We get down here Sunday night. Monday morning nobody shows. My wife calls them. They don't answer or return her call. By ten a.m. it's clear they are not coming. So we go down to Home Depot. The materials have not been picked up. On to Plan B. HD will deliver everything to the condo and another contractor recommended by the former manager is giving us a quote this week. This guy lives right downstairs, so I'm pretty confident he'll finish the job as long as we're not in a hurry.

It's pretty obvious what probably happened: Business was slow a couple of months ago and they gave us a lowball quote. Now they're busy and don't need our job. They could have just told us "we're sorry, but we can't do your job now." Instead they flat-out lied, probably because they wanted to keep us on the hook in case another job fell through.

I think contractors are pretty much the same all over, but I've never had one give such a bald-faced lie before. Folks down here say "it's Florida, don't expect contractors to show up when they say they will." Is this really how business is done in Florida?

You might be real lucky they did"t spike the job. Could have got it torn up, half done, get half-paid, then move onto the next job. Only get back to it when you complain enough.

All contractors have to be liars just to stay in business. That"s why you have them sign a contract and post a performance bond when they agree to do the work.

I have a new customer who is a building contractor. He has been renovating an older building into a restaurant that he will then operate. He has gotten way behind schedule due to contractors not coming in to do their parts of it as promised. It is really funny to hear him, a contractor, rant about worthless contractors.

I worked in the concrete industry for 25 years got to know several hundred contractors and I can count on one hand out the number of contractors I'd let near a job for me.That said I have a fellow I've hired 3 times to do work that is great does what he says at the quote he gave me.he also does one job at a time and works on it until he's finished.

Sorry, MarkB
We get those worthless contractors in this part of the country too. When they think there is better pickin's in the mountains they come up here for 6 months. Same story.

In Missouri, it's hard to even FIND a contractor! Most of them won't return a call to save their lives! Then, if you DO get a hold of one, they give you some excuse as to why they can't talk right then, and promise to call you back later. RIGHT. Never happens. The only "contractors" in this area you can trust are the Amish. At least they don't have phones to hide behind.

Lucky they didn't pick up the material and skip.

I guess we are fortunate, here in central Pa. we have many reliable contractors who do quality work. Lots of Amish and English that we can depend on. Now I didn't say they were cheap but most are reasonable considering the cost of materials and labor.

Normal operation for a contractor. :>)

Allan

Do they have a contractors license? Do you have a written contract? Can you prove the agreements? If all the answers are yes, you can file a complaint with the Contractors Licensing Board. In Florida, all contractors must be licensed and if you hired a non-licensed contractor you have no recourse. I was a contractor in Florida for more than 30 years.Fully licensed by the state and abided by the rules. Here again, if you hired someone under the table, blame yourself,

Welcome to America. Interestingly, there is a group of folks that show up everyday, on time, work hard, learn their trade quickly and are reliable. But we are focussed on sending them back where they came from....and the sooner the better? Then, it will really be ugly trying to get some dirty job done.

Four years ago, I had a friend come over and make an estimate for an outdoor deck. He was a retired coworker and had gone into business for himself.
He made his estimate and set a date to start.
Start date passed and I contacted him. A new start date was agreed upon and that date passed.
I contacted him for the second time and he apologized for FORGETTING!!
I told him to perminately forget about doing the job and I hung the phone up.
From the next two estimates I got, I discovered he had give me an estimate that was too low, by several hundred dollars
I guess that's why he "forgot"

Mark,
I'm a contractor and I hate hearing stories like yours. Unfortunately there are plenty of bad contractors in my industry. Some of those actually do very good work, but they have poor business practices. Others are just clueless.

There was a red flag you missed. When you indicated that you would order the material the contractor should have balked. Except in rare instances it's usually the fly by night operators that get into deals where the customer buys the materials. A good contractor will generally walk away from a potential job when the owner wants to furnish the material for a number of reasons....
It's likely the material won't be suitable for the project.
It's likely the customer won't have the correct quantities of material.
It's likely the customer won't have the material onsite when it needs to be onsite.
And the contractor can't mark up the cost of the material. The mark up on the material is often the difference between turning a profit on a job or just making wages.

You did the right thing by asking the former manager to refer someone. I suspect he gave the reference based on the quality of work, but perhaps didn't consider the quality of service.

It doesn't necessarily sound like it was the case here, but we all like to spend the least we can for something. Home owners often get too focused on searching for the lowest price when they should be searching for the best value. Rarely will lowest price equate to the best value. The lowest priced guys are often the fly by night operators. The contractors that have built a good reputation and have been in business the longest are often among the highest priced. That doesn't mean they are over priced. They just know what they have to charge to be profitable so they can stay in business to provide good service to their customers in the future. The low priced guys are usually only in business for a few years.

To address some of the replies...
There is no (good) reason for a contractor or any other business to not return a call within 24 hours.

Not all contractors are liars.
While they don't cost much, performance bonds do add to the cost of a project. Many if not most home owners don't want to pay the addition cost the contractor would have to charge.

Subcontractors not showing up when they are supposed to can be real a problem. One which is best remedied by the general hiring new subs for future projects.

HenryO brought up a good point about hiring licensed contractors. Hiring a contractor that is licensed is no guarantee they'll do quality work, or show up when they are supposed to, but it does give the customer some recourse. In my area we have to be licensed and bonded. After nearly 20 years of having those requirements there are still many unlicensed, unbonded and uninsured contractors in this area because so many home owners are laser focused on the lowest price.

Sounds like managment at my place of empoyment as well.

Contractor license doesn"t mean squat to me, compared to reputation of work. Here you apply for a license and pay a fee. Paper is worth as much as a restraining order, or the new anti-bullying act passed by our legislature. Not worth the paper it"s written on.

(quoted from post at 16:07:28 04/15/14) Contractor license doesn"t mean squat to me, compared to reputation of work. Here you apply for a license and pay a fee. Paper is worth as much as a restraining order, or the new anti-bullying act passed by our legislature. Not worth the paper it"s written on.

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I would never hire ANYONE to do a job for me unless they were Licensed and Insured, and willing to show paperwork.

I have been close to the building repair and maintainance business for 40 years and still don't have the answers. I believe you are right about them finding something better.
I consider myself trustworthy and honest but finishing a job where I have recieved most or all the pay just knocks the wind out of my sail. I have never took the money and not finished but I can see where a contractor would if he was not self disiplained. Lesson,never let the money get ahead of work,do draws on large jobs. If a contractor can't buy material and pay his employees and subs,don't hire them.
Everyone says "get it on a writen contract". That's good advice but a scope of work is just as important. If you doupt that,write a contract for a fairly simple job and I will show you how important a scope is.
More to the heart of what the op is all about. Has anyone had experience with Angie's List? I am courious what the procedure is when a contractor is given a bad review. It's common knowledge that some people will never be pleased regardless how well the job is done. I'm wondering if A.L. has a review panel to make sure reviews are acruate and fair.

I hired a licensed contractor to build a house addition.......7 inches out of square, leaky windows/doors, not even level. Imagine the joy of the second licensed contractor, years later, replacing the old house, and having to tie into that mess. Both locals. Paperwork doesn"t guarantee quality.

There is a reason those services have the "con" attached to the name. Beware of any of them that have that prefix....Con-tractor, Con-sultant, con-troller, con-tract.....etc.

I don't believe anyone suggested having a license would guarantee good work. Hiring someone that is licensed gives the home owner some leverage in the event the contractor does a poor job or doesn't complete the job.

My experience is that most contractors are self employed for a reason - they can't hold down a job. I have several relatives in construction, and I wouldn't hire any of them. One of my neighbor's has done several jobs for me, and I have had to call his wife. ( the motivator) to get things back on track. He works enough to keep the wolf from the door, and himself in hunting and fishing gear. If his wife didn't work, I don't know how he would support himself, much less his family. Nice guy, but definitely not a type "A" personality. he started a big deck project for a neighbor last year, it was interrupted by several weeks worth of fishing and hunting expeditions, not to mention a maximum 5 hour workday. He is a very good carpenter, but not real motivated. The deck still isn't done, and the permit has to be renewed!!

(quoted from post at 15:13:16 04/15/14) I have been close to the building repair and maintainance business for 40 years and still don't have the answers. I believe you are right about them finding something better.
I consider myself trustworthy and honest but finishing a job where I have recieved most or all the pay just knocks the wind out of my sail. I have never took the money and not finished but I can see where a contractor would if he was not self disiplained. Lesson,never let the money get ahead of work,do draws on large jobs. If a contractor can't buy material and pay his employees and subs,don't hire them.
Everyone says "get it on a writen contract". That's good advice but a scope of work is just as important. If you doupt that,write a contract for a fairly simple job and I will show you how important a scope is.
More to the heart of what the op is all about. Has anyone had experience with Angie's List? I am courious what the procedure is when a contractor is given a bad review. It's common knowledge that some people will never be pleased regardless how well the job is done. I'm wondering if A.L. has a review panel to make sure reviews are acruate and fair.

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My family has been in the construction business since 1946. The focus of the business has changed over the years. Since I took over in '99 we've concentrated on remodeling. Dad was more interested in new construction.

Since '99 I'd say I haven't done more than 3 or 4 jobs without a written contract, and those jobs were for people I've known for 40-50 years. It's good business to have written contracts spelling out what is required of BOTH the contractor and customer.

I have limited experience with Angie's List. We built a handicap accessible shower several years ago for a gentleman that had just had a leg amputated. He was and is still very happy with the work we did. He made a positive recommendation on Angies List thinking he was doing me a favor. I wish he hadn't. Everyone that has called because of the A/L recommendation has been a flake. I haven't done any work for those people but I've wasted a lot of time dealing with them. In my experience the people that use A/L to find a contractor are a combination of people that are shopping for the lowest possible price, yet want the highest quality and have trouble making good decisions. I'll give an example. A couple years ago I got a call from some people that bought a house that was a few years old. The builder's slogan was "more house, less money". It was a big house with big rooms, and the cheapest materials you could possibly imagine. The new owners wanted to do several small to mid size projects. They had no idea what things would cost so they wanted separate prices on each project. No problem. So I spent considerable time preparing six bids. I didn't hear back so I figured I didn't get any of the work. That happens sometimes. No problem.
Several months go by and I get a call from the home owner. She said she had hired someone cheaper to do the interior work and had a patio poured instead of having me build a deck. OK, so why did she call? Turns out the fly by night outfit she hired, did a lousy job, and they didn't quite finish. She wanted me to come in and tear out what he had done, and redo it correctly. She went on to say she had contacted the attorney general about the other guy after just a couple of days. I declined to take that project. Then several months later she called again saying she wanted me to build a deck. Hmm, she had told me before they had gotten a patio poured. Turns out she had made a deal on a patio but it never got done. I suspect it was a similar situation as the OP described where someone shot a low ball price hoping to get some quick work. By that time my bid was at least a year and a half old and she wanted me to honor the price. My bids clearly state the price is good for thirty days. Sorry lady, not gonna happen. So she wanted a new price. Sorry lady, too busy to take on more work right now.
That was my BEST experience dealing with someone that uses A/L. The others were even flakier.
Like I said, I've never done work for anyone that shops for a contractor on A/L so I don't know if there's a way to fight undeserved negative comments.

As for not letting the money get ahead of the work....
Customers have a choice. They can use a contractor's money (or credit) to keep the work ahead of their own money, but that comes with a cost to them, or they can make a deposit, and make payments as the work progresses.
The way I do it is any project valued below a certain amount is due upon completion in it's entirety. No up front money and no draws.

If it's a bigger project I generally get a deposit and draws as work progresses. With that scenario I'm ahead at the beginning and they're ahead later.
I don't take the deposit and sit on it for months or use it for other projects like the fly by night guys. When a project is scheduled out a ways, I make sure the customer signs the contract and put their project on the schedule. When the start of the project nears I'll get a deposit.

Some customers aren't comfortable with making a deposit, or sometimes they are getting a loan for the entire amount. In those cases I'm happy to forgo a deposit and get draws as the project progresses.......but the customer will pay for having my money tied up.

There are many ways the contracts can be written. The best is whatever scenario the customer and the contractor are both comfortable with.

I better get back to work. I have 4 contracts to type this afternoon and another customer to meet with.

(quoted from post at 15:20:20 04/15/14) I hired a licensed contractor to build a house addition.......7 inches out of square, leaky windows/doors, not even level. Imagine the joy of the second licensed contractor, years later, replacing the old house, and having to tie into that mess. Both locals. Paperwork doesn"t guarantee quality.

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Where was the building inspector?

Con-gress. TDF

Sadly, I have to agree with you. I have hired or interviewed or checked referances on dozens of contractors over the last several years. Some for very big jobs and some for a few hours work.
Most are skilled or semi-skilled tradesmen that suddenly needed to run a business. Most soon found that the skills to run a business (accounting, planning, estimates, phone calls) are totally different than the sawing and hammering and measuring they are good at. The good ones survive, the others go back to work for someone else at the first downturn.

Many truely lack personal discipline, and floated from job to job previously.

I hate to say this but about 60% are just unreliable, incapable or downright crooked.

About 10 to 20% are TOPNOTCH, and charge accordingly...because they have tons of repeat business.

I was in menards the other day in line behind two contractors.One asked the other which job they were going to charge there purchase to.
The other replied "all of them".

(quoted from post at 18:18:19 04/15/14) I was in menards the other day in line behind two contractors.One asked the other which job they were going to charge there purchase to.
The other replied "all of them".

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Those are the guys working by the hour not under contract. They're usually the ones working for the cheapskate customer that's looking for the lowest hourly rate. Those contractors and customers deserve each other.

Pops, thanks for your comments. In this case, it was the contractor who suggested we purchase the materials. I thought it odd, but understand that we were in Michigan at the time, so it made sense for us to pick out the tile, faucets and vanity at a store which was local to us. We were comfortable because we knew they had done work for other owners in the same condo and everyone had been happy with their work. I believe it would have worked out fine, except a big fat job came along that blew us out of their queue. I really have no problem with anything they did, other than continue to lie about taking the job after they had already decided to bolt.

Henry, I don't know if they're licensed and there was no contract other than a few emails back and forth. I'm not interested in pursuing a complaint as we're aren't out any money. They could have picked up our materials and left us out a couple of grand, but they did not. Or they could have started the job and left us a half-finished mess. Better that we just write the whole thing off to experience.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

I have a cousin at Ft Lauderdale that does that.

Edd in Kentucky:

I assume your talking about the illegals that work for lower wages. Here is my read on them.

1)If you add in all the social services they use from the government they are not a cheap source of labor. All the ones around here send their kids to school here, use food stamps, and free medical cards.

2) I think the way to stop the illegal workers is to make it a serious crime to hire them. I don't care if it is just one day to tear your roof off or mow your yard. Then make it where the Chairman of the board of any corporation is the one liable if they are hired by anyone in that corporation.

How does this tie into contractors??? My Brother was/is a darn good finish carpenter. I do mean very skilled. He had his own business for years and did well. Then the fly by night guys figured out they could be the front man for the illegals and low bids jobs. The cost of jobs dropped in the whole area thanks to them. He fought it for a few years and them just quit. He switched to something the illegals can't do now.

So I would be darn careful who I hired to do ANY work for me.

2 points.
1) Most of the Americans that want to send them back, also hire them because they are 10% cheaper. We are a bunch of loud mouth hipocrites when a buck is involved.

2) We complain about lazy bums that won't or don't work and live off welfare. Here are a bunch of people that will and do work and we want to send them away. That is stupid. Lets find a way to make them pay for the services they get, pay taxes and carry their share of the govt. they use. We do not have to make them citizens but acting like they are not here is dumb. Lets figure out how to make them pay their share, even if they go back to Mexico when they retire.

I think you are spot on. When they were hugary and work was slow they jumped in, now things are hopping.

More and more I've found myself being lead into contracting. There are just too many harem scarem shiesters in the business. Lots of good points from lots of people on here too.

But, I told a lady yesterday on a fence on a simple one day in and out job with a 5 man crew. Im expensive, I'm slow, my target date to get there would be 90 days out plus rain days and add ons on exisiting jobs but an estimated date is just that, estimated. No job gets left until its right.

Crazy thing is, if you do good work right, you've got more than you can say grace over. I use good subs, that are as particular as I am and they are as backed up as I am. Been waiting since December for a tunnel bore under a driveway for a water line.

For all this gloom and doom about the economy, I sure haven't seen it since about mid way through 2009. Yet 90 percent of the guys I know in the business are hurting for work.

Look on the bright side. They could have taken the deposit and picked up all of the stuff from HD and then used it on another job site while you were out of town. Which is how I thought the story was going to play out when I was reading it.

For all this gloom and doom about the economy, I sure haven't seen it since about mid way through 2009. Yet 90 percent of the guys I know in the business are hurting for work.

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That depends a great deal on location.

Mid '09 through mid '12 was the worst period for construction and remodeling and many other types of business in this area since 1979-'80.
New construction is running about 10% of what it was prior to the economy meltdown.

I'd estimate 75% of the contractors that were in business in this area in 2008 are no longer in business.
It's not just the construction industry. Many area businesses have folded. There are lots of vacant stores in the mall. The old strip mall is like a ghost town.
Unemployment and under employment are major problems.