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OT--GOLD Investment?

J

Jiles

Well-known Member
I know this has been discussed before and I did a search.
I am 68 years old and I know very little about buying gold.
Can someone give advise as to how I go about purchasing?
 
Gold only looks like a good investment if you only look at the last ten years or so. If you look a the 50 or 100 year growth rate then gold is not that good of an investment.

Also you have to actually store/secure gold. Gold is a physical asset. Gold is not a very "liquid" investment either. You have to fool around with a fluctuating exchange rate/price per ounce.

As to the exact way to buy gold. There are many ways to buy it. The companies you see advertising usually are a rip off. They charge higher exchange rates/prices than other gold suppliers.

Just buying gold coins is just about as good of a way as any to "own" gold. Most gold buyers are also gold sellers. Just know the value per ounce for the day you want to buy. Then check the "local" market, see who is selling at the lowest price. When selling just look for the highest price.

Gold is just a valuable commodity. Its value changes everyday just like grain, oil or any other commodity.
 
Monex.com

Holding Gold bullion does not seem like a good thing to do.
I do not know how much you would buy, but....your home needs to be guarded, like Ft. Knox if you have alot of it.

Also, Silver would be a better buy and hold strategy. More easily traded in my opinion.
 
Well, I completely disagree with the other comments so far. If you take a hard look at what the FED had been doing (printing money by thetrillions with absolutely no backing You can see why the dollars days are numbered.
July 1st a little known bill passed by the legislature (HR2847) goes into effect. The taxing of 30% of all foreign trading byh US corporations.
There is good reason to believe that this will trigger the downfall of the US dollar, as the world currency.
I do agree that silver may be a better investment du to the fact that the ratio with gold is historically low right now...like about 40:1. where as it is historically 16% of the price of gold.
 
I'm 5 years behind you in age. The nice part of getting older is being able to spend the monies you saved over the year. My biggest investment was a good education for my kids. College, trade school or whatever it took will be their inheritance.

As for investing now, I prefer liquid assets. Now when I go shopping, I buy the better beer and wines. Another nice liquid investment is a cruise. No one can steal the memory of a good time with friends and family away from you.

In reality, I do dabble in the stock market. I have been a bit ahead of the curve for most investments. I try to buy stocks that pay dividends and reinvest those back into the company. If the stock is low in price, I get more stock via dividends, if it is high, I have more worth. Sort of a win-win situation.
 
Well if you're holding Federal Reserve Notes/dollars also
mistakenly called US Dollars you are holding the currency of a country thats 17 trillion$ in debt and unfunded liabilities between 50 and 80 Trillion$.
In 1913 when the Federal Reserve was created you could take 20 of their $1 notes to a bank and get
a ounce Gold in the form of a $20 Gold piece,today
it takes over $1400 of them to buy an American Eagle 1 oz Gold Coin.So basically the paper currency has lost around 98% of its value against
Gold.Gold has been the standard currency of exchange against what all others have been measured since the beginnig of recorded human history,all others except Silver have fallen by the wayside,all paper currencies have eventually failed and worse yet the Dollar isn't even physical paper anymore its mostly images on a computer screen.So its your choice which you belive you should own.If you do decide to buy Gold I suggest Monex and Schiff Metals both have low premiums and have been honest in the dealings I've had with them.
 
In the last 100 years Gold has increased by a multiplier of 65 against the Federal Reserve Dollar.In 1913 an ounce of Gold could be had for
20 Federal reserve Notes now its over 65X$20=1300
to buy an ounce of Gold so how can you say Gold has lost ground against the Dollar?Just the opposite is true the Dollar has lost 98% of its value aginst Gold.
 
To get your feet wet, go to a local coin store.
The owner will talk with you all you want.
You can walk in with dollars, walk out with gold.

Then don't talk about it.
 
I did not say gold had lost against the dollar. What I was meaning if you had invested in mutual funds or other stocks you would have much more money even after you adjust for inflation and the devaluing of the dollar.

That is counting the stock crash of 1929 and the 2008 down turn.

Gold just holds value it does not "gain" value very well. The "high" value of gold per ounce today is just a reflection of the drop in the value of the dollar. It is not a good indicator of the increase in the real value of gold.

Buy what you want but NEVER put all your eggs in one basket. If you want precious metals as part of your portfolio that is great. Just don't go to all gold. Buy some gold and silver but also have some other investments. Land and stocks (mutual funds) are my choice.
 
When you buy it you pay a % and sometimes when you sell it you get charged a %.

I made the mistake and bought gold a few years ago. I came out on the short end. Still have it in safety deposit box

The people selling it made the money.

Go to a coin shop buy gold or silver. Then go to another shop and try to sell it. You will see what I mean about a %.
George
 
You'll pay a very high premium at a coin shop most charge around 30%.$1400 Gold Eagle will cost
you $1820.How much Gold have you actually bought?Private sale for small amounts and the large suppliers for orders over $10,000 as some of them charge only 3% over the market rate.Also you will not get conterfiets from the large suppliers with coin shops who knows.
 
I agree on scattering ones investments for sure and land is the other good secure investment in my opinion. But look at the economy and the status of the USA in general compared to the rest of the World and it seems to me that US paper Currency is about the riskest thing to own these days.Many people have all their wealth tied up in paper currency or stocks which amounts to the same thing,not good.But as the saying goes time will tell.And I hope I'm wrong as no one that lives in the US will gain from the collapse of the Dollar.
 
Gold has no appeal to me, Think your to late to get
in the Gold game as far as prices to be able to
gain anything. But that's just coming from someone
that has had to invest in tools to raise a family
and improve our life.
 
Buying gold would have been alright if you had bought it in the late 90's (or about then) for $270 an ounce. Gold is too high right now to make any money on it.

Watch gold prices for years before you buy any; then buy when it gets real low.
 
There are people that make money on gold, but not the people who want to be investors. You still can't eat or wear the stuff, and it still won't keep you warm.
 
You have been watching too much Fox news advertisers. LOL!!
Gold value is much more fickle than stock market or real estate. You may as well invest in some blue chip stock and realize modest returns if you want to protect your investments.
Any investment that seems too good to be true, IS!!!
 
You still need a medium of exchange. Are you going
to sell a load of soybeans for a small piece of
gold or take a sliver of gold to the grocery store?
 
Actually, isn't it the other way around? The value of gold is constant and the value of the dollar or any other paper currency compared to gold is fickle. As mentioned below, at one time gold could be pruchased for around $270 per ounce. Now it's something in the $1400 per ounce range. The value of the gold hasn't changed but the value of the dollar has declined that much.
 
A couple of years ago I thought about buying gold and watched the kugerrand price daily go from about 1100.00 an ounce to 1280.00 an ounce and decided against it and quit watching. This morning because of this thread I look up the price and it was 1303.00 an ounce. Gees I get better interest on my checking account.
 
If you want to get your feet wet, ask around your local stores for what they have. When I researched and saw those places on the web (bulliondirect) to buy larger quantities of gold and silver at what seemed a marginal markup, a local store wasn't that far off on price. I just thought I would try it with some 1 oz. silver coins, but they also had big 5 oz. knockoff coins, small and larger bars, etc. Wonder how many counterfeit "silver" coins and bars float around though?
 
As has been mentioned, go online, see what various companies like bullion direct or kitco are quoting (factor in what the freight costs are) then compare that to what a local coin dealer is quoting. Buy where you get the best price for the same product.

For most people gold and silver is more of an insurance policy than an investment.
 
(quoted from post at 15:52:17 03/31/14) As has been mentioned, go online, see what various companies like bullion direct or kitco are quoting (factor in what the freight costs are) then compare that to what a local coin dealer is quoting. Buy where you get the best price for the same product.

For most people gold and silver is more of an insurance policy than an investment.
Click to expand...

[b:8a9aaefd85]"For most people gold and silver is more of an insurance policy than an investment."[/b:8a9aaefd85]

That's what my thoughts are!
 
I agree with the statement about using gold and silver as more of an insurance policy than investment. With that in mind the only insurance I'd buy is one that I hold - where you take physical possession of the metat.
 
That's why I buy "junk silver" coins. Dimes, quarters, 50 cent, and dollar coins from 1964 and older. It would be much easier to spend them as "REAL" money that other people would accept than bars.
 
The 'value' of gold is nothing more than what someone's perception of it's 'value' is today. That is seemingly determined by any number of schysters who have a position in gold that they want to alter. Most of these devils do a lot of talking in hopes of creating a demand for gold (which they own) and when the market climbs enough for them to realise a large profit they will slowly liquidate their holdings much to your misfortune... and when the pendulum swings far enough, that they need to start buying again, they'll switch to something else until the arse comes out of the gold price again, at which point they will start buying again. The hot shots that promote gold are, from my observation, the most cynical bunch of thieves that have ever walked the face of the earth.
The only real use or application for gold today is as an electrical conductor in printed circuits... the rest of it is just smoke and mirrors.

Rod
 
I know people that are still hurting from the NASDAQ crash of 2000 - much less the crash of 2008. When is the last time gold lost 50% or 90% (or in some cases on the NASDAQ 100%) of its value in a couple days, weeks or months?
 
How many times has gold been worthless in times of economic crisis in the last 200 years and how many times as fiat currency been worthless?
 
Yea but when the Dollar collapses Gold will be what other countries want in payment for their goods and since we no longer manufacture many essentials in this country if you don't have some way to pay for them you'll go without.
 
So what are those that 'print' paper money at will and flood the market with them to the tune of 60-70 Billion a month? Gold can't be printed and its been valued as the ultimate currency since the beginning of recorded history.Why do you think that countries try to own Gold? It means they can back up their paper currency.There is avery long list of paper curriencies that have become worthless because they were being printed will nilly just like the US is now.Not a matter IF a paper currency will fail its just a matter of when.
 
Rod, the same can be said for paper currency. It is only worth what people feel it is worth and its perceived value can be and is manipulated.

Gold and silver is in limited supply and has to be mined. Paper currency is printed and the only supply limit is what a few individuals decide it is. Plus keep in mind that a lot of the currency in the system isn't even printed, it only exists on a spreadsheet.
 
Silver is about 14 times face value of junk coins right now. So you wouldn't take "a sliver of silver" to the supermarket, but if the dollar crashes, you'll be able to use junk silver coins at their multiple of face value at the time (and they'll skyrocket), to keep purchasing power.

Silver is around $20/oz. right now, and cost of production is about 18. If you follow silver prices, they haven't gone below 18 for years. Cost of production is a floor, IMHO, because if value becomes less, mines simply stop producing until price goes up enough for them to make a profit. And unlike gold, there are a number of critical industrial uses of silver, so there is a steady pressure on supply.

I agree with the others that its more insurance against the declining dollar than an "investment", as such. I'm 65, and don't have time to wait for stocks to recover if we get another crash, or bubble bursting, so I'm looking at preserving capital, not making a lot of investment income. If you don't have enough by the time you're my age, the risk of losing what you do have outweighs the possibility of hitting it big in stocks.
 
I disagree absolutely with the assertion that any fiat currency will necessarily become worthless. You have situations like Zimbabwe where you have a whack job in control who is completely destroying the economy of the nation and robbing what he can for himself... and in that case the value of the currency has gone to nothing. To suggest that we are there or anywhere near that situation in the developed world is simply foolish.

Instead of asking why Fiat currencies fail mabey you should ask yourselves why we continuously RETURN TO Fiat currencies after every adventure with gold? Probably has a lot to do with the simple convenience of using paper vs trying to weight out gold on the spot to facilitate trade...
In my view there is just about zero chance of us ever moving away from some form of Fiat currency and with the change that's taking place in the world these days... the likelihood is all that much greater that we will only enhance that. If it comes to the stage where that won't work, you're going to require a lot more guns and lead shot that you're going to require of gold.

Rod
 
Very true...
So... in knowing that you then ask yourself the question... do you want the value of your economy limited by the value of something shiny that someone has to dig from the ground at great expense simply to use it as a means of facilitating trade? Personally, I do not. I think there's a lot of things in this world that have real applicable value of which gold and silver really have very little real value.
I don't much see a need to base our financial system on the values of the kings and murderers of four centuries ago.
As far as the value of currency goes... the fact that it is tightly regulated by a few is what in essence controls it's value. You can choose to view that as a problem of proportions where the sky is falling or a blessing that maintains our way of life. I do not believe that too many would actively give up the lives they have today for one of 200 or 4000 years ago... but if they do... good luck with that.

Rod
 
I guess if keeping a block of your wealth tied up in an item that does not produce anything brings balance to you, so be it. To me it does nothing. There's all kinds of things you can do to balance a portfolio without going down that road.

Rod
 
To somewhat make this tractor related, I will admit that the majority of the money I have accumulated over many years is from buying, rebuilding and selling all types of farm equipment. Since the beginning, all my buying and selling was for CASH. I received all the profit made from such sales.
That was my plans for retirement, except on a larger sale, but that changed because of my health and the fact that such items were much harder to sell in today's world.
I just put a lot of the money in the bank and it has gained pennies.
I might add that I currently own app. $600.00-- face value-- in old silver coins.
I have a considerable amount of IRAs that I will have to start withdrawing from in a short time from now.
I know that I have the money in the bank and it is insured. But what security do we have when it is secured by our "broke" government???
From the responses received, I am considering purchasing more old coins along with checking into new gold coins.
I am personally concerned with this country's stability and want to prepare, as much as possible to at least keep what I have worked for so long, and be able to pass along to my beneficiaries.
 
Probably not. The dollar is the whole world's reserve currency. When the dollar collapses their currency and everything else they have will be worthless.

That's why it matters that you can't eat it or wear it or use it to keep warm. Gold is a commodity and not a very useful one except for the shiny jewelry part.
 
If you want to swing like that... I can point you to lots of cases where insurance didn't pay when it was needed either...

Rod
 
Fiat currencies that have failed in the last 100 years, twice in Germany, once in France, twice in Russia/Soviet Union, twice in Italy, three times in China, twice Korea, and so on. In fact the US dollar, Swiss Frank and the British Pound Sterling are the only currencies I know of that have made it past 100 years. And I don't give the US dollar and British pound more than 30 years tops.

As for "worthless" the dollar has lost 95% of its value in 80 years - that's getting pretty close to worthless. That is amazing considering it never lost any value the first 100 years it was in circulation - but that was when it was backed by gold......
 
Why would their currencies be worthless? We are the ones in debt we can't pay back and our industries are jokes like link_disallowed and some stupid game with fruits on it.Theirs are basic hard goods that everyone needs to live.
 
Rod, I bet you are just a joy to be around. Just so positive and receptive to ideas that differ from yours. lol And thats not even mentioning how non judgmental you are.
 
Because most countries are worse off than we are. Sad but true. Germany might be better off but everyone else, including the USA, is skating and juggling frantically to keep the game going.
 
You also provide a list of nations who have been in a fairly regular state of political ruin and instability for large portions of the past hundred years. You're not going to have stability in any currency when the political situation is out of control... It might also be worth noting that the ends of currencies roughly coincided with the end points of many of the respective governments of the day.

The 'loss' in value of the dollar has also coincided with the establishment and growth of the 'middle' class in America, something that didn't exist previous to the establishment of the Fed. I think people get too tied up in worrying about how much the dollar is 'worth' and lose focus on the fact that the lot of us are a hell of a lot better off than we were 100 years ago... which is what I consider important.

Rod
 
If someone can show me an idea that works, I'm receptive... Unsubstantiated drivel and conspiracy theories... I have 'zero' respect for. And no... I don't make any bones about that fact. I find this subject brings out all those who have great respect for the opinion of others... until it disagrees with THEIR opinion.

This subject is one that simply amuses me. I don't care one way or the other what someone does with their money. I just see no logic in dumping money into something that does nothing simply in hope that you'll need it when the world goes to hell.

Rod
 
Rod, It's a waste of time arguing about this.
The folks selling gold are the ones making money.
They do so by feeding on the fear of people of the "big collapse coming" what ever that means. It is a similar fear that the survivalist have.
The bunker mentality and the gold mentality are very similar. I'm sure I will catch you know what about this. People don't want to hear the truth.
Oh well, its their money. At least they are helping the economy by allowing the gold sales folks to buy big homes and bigger yachts!
 
You are partially correct.
Gold backed up the US dollar up until 1971. The fall of the dollar has increased since that time.

I much prefer silver coins that can be traded rather than $1000 or $2000 gold pieces. It is like going into a gas station with a $1000 bill and saying fill up my tank and gas cans and I want the other $900 in cash. (the gas station clerk will decline your sale)
Gold coins are ONLY a hedge investment. (or insurance policy)
 
Lest we not forget......
The native Americans considered gold (note the "g" is NOT capitalized) to be a "worthless yellow metal" when the white man wanted to go into the black hills (sacred land to the natives) to prospect for gold. There were wars fought over that!
 
Actually, there were runs, crashes, and panics on about a three-year cycle in the US prior to the creation of the Federal Reserve System in the 1930's. Some of them were minor but a couple were serious. For all the bad the Fed does, they have provided more stability. People that tell you different are trying to sell you something.
 
Couple ways to buy gold, easiest is to order online. Click the link below, then click on "gold coins" or "gold bars". Then on the top row of the charts you can click what you are interested in and see what company is running the best deal right now.
http://www.comparegoldandsilverprices.com/

You can buy on craigslist or ebay but keep in mind, there are fakes out there (lots of them). Good luck.
 
I'll bet that some of the guys on Wall St Oct 29
1929 that jumped out of their skyscraper windows said the same thing as you did on Oct 28 1929(LOL)
Actually I hope I'm wrong but history and economic indicators to me say its all coming to the very bad logical conclusion.Better to be prepared and not need it than need it and not be prepared.Anyway good lively discussion all around.
 
I'm sure there are honest gold brokers out there, just as I'm sure there are honest used car dealers and honest roofing contractors, even if I haven't met any myself. But it's a fair assumption that the more heavily a dealer advertises, the greater markup he's going to have to get to pay for that advertising. Several gold dealers who advertise heavily on conservative talk shows have come under scrutiny for their business practices. Google "gold coin scams". Buyer beware.

Figure out how much your actual buy/sell spread will be after you calculate in ALL your costs including shipping and credit card or wire fees. If the spread between what you'll pay to buy and what you'll receive when you sell is ten percent, gold is going to have to go above $1400/oz JUST TO BREAK EVEN. I sure wouldn't bet my retirement savings on the prospect of that happening.

A lot of folks here have been preaching the "buy gold now" mantra even as gold prices have plummeted. I guess what was a good buy at $1700 is an even better deal at $1300. But it will be better still when gold crashes down through $1000, which might well happen this year.

Keep in mind that gold peaked after the greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression. So we'll need another crisis just as big if gold is to rise above 1600 again. I'll also note that doomsayers like Howard Ruff have been predicting the demise of the dollar since the seventies. So far their dire predictions have not come true. Sure, it could happen. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
 
(quoted from post at 16:58:17 03/31/14) Actually, there were runs, crashes, and panics on about a three-year cycle in the US prior to the creation of the Federal Reserve System in the 1930's. Some of them were minor but a couple were serious. For all the bad the Fed does, they have provided more stability. People that tell you different are trying to sell you something.
Click to expand...

Very true. But the Fed has morphed into something different than it was for decades. I don't know what it is, but it doesn't appear that the US is it's sole concern anymore and they don't seem to answer to the US anymore.

If you want to look into the history of various recessions and depressions, then look for "panics" as they were called then. It was the panic of the 1890s that made my great grandparents buy gold. Then in the 30's FDR took their gold and ruined them. History doesn't like to talk about that part of "The New Deal".
 
(quoted from post at 16:01:43 03/31/14) I agree with you completely. I'm just storm bound today and have time to waste LOL.

Rod
Click to expand...

Rod, I find a lot of your views very interesting. I just wish you'd quote the post you are addressing when you reply. I can't make out who you're talking to.

Having Modern view and Classic view! Pick one Boss Lady and be done with it....preferably Modern View!
 
Larry, I went through that bill and I don't read that as a tax. It seems more like a penalty.
Where did you see that at?
 
To anyone advocating the purchase of physical gold so the gooberment can't get your 'money'... that act alone ought to cause some to stop and think. If they want it, they'll get it.

Rod
 
Find some gold and buy. Coin shops, gold eagles from U.S. mint, jewelry stores, various online web-sites (including classifieds, busineses, and auctions). Look for any gold being sold at auctions that you can attend in person. Pawn shops that carry jewelry and or coins. Gold bullion can be bought but dont know where. That is way out of my league and in my opinion only for heavy investers. What form of gold do you want to buy? Coins, jewelry, bullion, or nuggets? Kinda of hard to send you a certain direction not knowing what form you want! Alot of good posting on this post. Unfortunately, I think you got way more advice on investing opinions than you did on where to actually buy gold or how to go about it.
 
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