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Organic standards lowered

R

rrlund

Well-known Member
Sorry about your health there health nuts. Seems like your organic meats will only be organic in name if they come out of California.
All you can do is shake your head and laugh at this stuff and the sheople who follow it.
Organic standards
 
Gotta love it. Kinda like the year I sold a bunch of baleage to an organic dairy. Feed was tight that year and prices were sky high. I guess he decided his cow could eat conventional baleage after all....
Our neighbor is all into the latest crazy thing..nothing GMO.. No grains, no meat that was fed GMO..what a joke. They pay big bucks for food that is supposedly so much better.
Being a producer I know the flip side...haad a buddy that went to the sale barn, bought 900 lb angus steers, dumped them on pasture for the summer then butchered and sold the meat to city dwellers as "grass fed" Guy mad a killing...
Whats the old saying "A fool and his money are soon parted."
 
I once heard this said: "If people are so hell bent on spending money it is morally wrong to deny them the privilege"...:) Mike
 
I dabble in the organic stuff and no i dont buy all the hype. but it gives small producers like me a chance to make $ so i can grow my farm a bit. My hog operation is going non GMO. and The buyer of most of my hogs owns a processing facility and he tells me that the non GMO fed hogs seem to have better intestons for making sausage. and that the casings from GMO fed hogs are not as good for that purpose. weather its true or not is beyond me. I know that there is a lot of research that supports the ideas that there is a difference in GMO and NON GMO fed meats. how much of a difference i don't know.
 
No,I just don't know that lying to them to do it is the way to go though.

Time to be a little sarcastic here,but is it right to sell something by claiming that conventionally grown food will kill you,then turn around and sell something labeled "organic" to unsuspecting consumers for twice the price when it's the same stuff that will "kill them" for half the cost?
Hypocrites just drive me crazy. The claim that we don't care if we kill consumers with conventionally grown food,as long as we make a profit. If they aren't meeting standards because of the drought,sell this stuff as conventionally grown and warn consumers that they could die if they eat it,simple as that. Or is it just about greed and making money among organic producers? The shoe's on the other foot now isn't it?
 
As I read it, they aren't talking about replacing organic feed with conventional, just shortening the grazing period before slaughter.
 
Do you see how convoluted this crap is? If they're talking grass fed,then talk grass fed. Apparently in California just feeding organically grown feed doesn't make California cattle organic.
All I'm saying is,follow the rules until the drought is over. Nope,can't do that. Have to make money duping the public.
 
You make an interesting argument there, rrlund. It does kinda cheapen the cause.

Paul
 
why is it when a farmer decides to raise "grass fed" or "organic" to sell to people who believe its better he is labeled negetivly buy the conventional farmer? Bottom line is if it wasnt for a consumer to buy food none of us would be working. So if the consumer wants to pay more for something they feel is better so be it. There is a growing beleif that the agri business model is broken, headed down a down hill slop. Mr. RRLUND, how many lactations do your cows average before you cull them? How many did you average 30 years ago? So is everything conventional going in the right direction? Someone who farms different than you is still a FARMER. With only 1% of the population being farmers, shouldnt we all try not to throw stones?
Seems stupid that the cash crop guys pick at the beef guys, who pick at the dairy guys, who pick at the hog guys , who pick at grass fed guys. Strength in numbers, how about we stick together?
 
(quoted from post at 07:50:00 03/28/14) No,I just don't know that lying to them to do it is the way to go though.

Time to be a little sarcastic here,but is it right to sell something by claiming that conventionally grown food will kill you,then turn around and sell something labeled "organic" to unsuspecting consumers for twice the price when it's the same stuff that will "kill them" for half the cost?
Hypocrites just drive me crazy. The claim that we don't care if we kill consumers with conventionally grown food,as long as we make a profit. If they aren't meeting standards because of the drought,sell this stuff as conventionally grown and warn consumers that they could die if they eat it,simple as that. Or is it just about greed and making money among organic producers? The shoe's on the other foot now isn't it?
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Organics started out with good intentions, but when producers found that higher prices limited sales, they became desperate to increase sales. This led to the scare tactics and un-truths that spread across the internet. Couple this with mom and pop operations, increased costs from buying organic inputs, high labor costs, droughts, disease and no "economies of scale" ...and this is what you get. Organic rules are getting more abundant all the time. We have milk and hog producers around here that buy all their organic feed and expect to make a profit. They set their price for a profit and find out that soon they are sitting on a surplus. Unwilling to lower their prices they resort to the scare tactics or fade away....
 
Strength in numbers, how about we stick together?

I'm all for that,but do you read the things on here that these believers claim? They sell their product by claiming that what I grow will kill people and that I don't care as long as I make money. Well,it's farming,there's no guarantee. There's a drought,that's the reality. If that means somebody can't follow the rules because of the weather,so be it. Sell their "dangerous product" that they themselves have demonized for the same price that the rest of us take until the drought is over,that's all I ask. They want to rewrite the rules when it gets in to their pockets though don't they?
 
I do read some of what the believers write. To believe is to believe, each has their own right. You show pics of oliver/white tractors on here. I too have owned a few, Also own some green and yellow ones. I like the green ones much better. Should I bash you cause your opinion is different than mine? I have finished a few head of steers on grass to sell in the city. Was easy, and made double what they were getting at the sale barn. Was I a tree huggin fool because I would like to reduce my farm debt by selling to a good market? You live MUCH closer to this market than I do. Give it a try, it WILL help your bottom line. A few acres of grass returns a good profit. When the market swings again and you find your farm bleeding red ink you may rethink this crazy idea.
 
You like those funny green colored tractors that to much yellow in the paint? You like them better?
You have my sympathy? I now kinda understand where your coming from. :)^D
 
Can I change the rules when it's necessary due to the weather?

All I ask for is some integrity among these people. If it doesn't meet the standards,then just step up to the plate and say,"Sorry,I can't in good conscience sell those cattle as organic. They don't meet the standards". Is that so hard? It is if you're some elitist who is better than everybody else because you have good intentions. Where does it end if this drought goes on? "No,I didn't raise them organic,but I should be allowed to sell them as organic because I know some organic growers,and we tend to like the same movies."?
And I do pasture my cattle. All of my brood cows are pastured the whole grazing season,just like every cow/calf herd in the country. The calves are right there with them until I wean them in the fall at 5-600 pounds,then they go in to the feedlot to be finished on hay,grain and corn silage. Sorry if somebody thinks that'll kill them. But who gave them the idea that it would? Not me.
 
Organic or regular are only as good as the operator. If you sign a contract that you will only sell BGH free milk and then give the cow the shot you are wrong. If you sign a contract that you will only sell organic milk and then use drugs when a cow gets sick you are wrong. Bottom line is the product is only as good as the producer is. The area where I live we have a lot of organic and most of them do a very good job, but you always have someone that cuts corners. The one that cuts the corners gives every one a bad name.

Bob
 
The key is what rrlund said, saying organic and grass fed is a far superior product is where the problem is. We all can't stick together if your going to bash my product to sell yours. In my opinion, grass fed would be my last option. Longer on feed, no energy like corn, which leads to leaner meat isn't a plus in my book. I will take a nice well marbled corn fed steak over a grass fed steak anyday. You almost have to make more money with it to make up for sitting on them longer. Like I said, that's my opinion. The original point was the standards for organic food going down makes you chuckle. I haven't yet met a organic producer who actually raises a organic product. I have seen too many guys buying what ever feed they can get thier hands on when they are out because they don't want to spend the big money on organic feed, and can't find enough of it to get by till spring. Thier corn silage is full of weeds they can't cultivate out, and they only get half the yield. Somehow, my product is less superior to that? When one of my cows gets mastitis i treat it, and in four days shes happy and healthy and back in the tank. The organic guy mashes up garlic and who knows what else to try to kill it and a week later shes a three titter with a fever yet that milks worth alot more. Still, the organic truck still takes thier milk and people are waiting inline to by thier advertised organic beef. That's not opinion, that's fact.
 
Organic producers are allowed to substitute their livestock's grass diet with organic feed for a set length of time due to drought and NO Grass to eat.
 
There is nothing in organic standards published for California or any other state or published USDA organic standards that states conventional grown crops or livestock will kill you or is in some way substandard food. It is a choice of anyone to become organic certified or not.
 
I find it interesting how you feel you are being bashed by the organic guys. I notice in you post that you have no trouble bashing them. Its all about education and from what I read on the subject of organic dairy you must have none. To make a statement that organic yeilds are half of yours is false.To say grass fed takes longer is also false. Did you ever think that maybe there are cattle that have genetics that make them finish out fast on grass? Its all about choice. Your handle is MASSEY FARMER so I assume you like Masseys. Your choice means your iron is worth half what green and yellow iron is worth at auction. So should you be bashed for your choice< or veiwed as a difference in opinion?
 
Sounds like he thinks I'm trying to sell him an Oliver at twice the price of a Deere by insisting the Deere will lead him to an early grave.
 
There is nothing in organic standards published for California or any other state or published USDA organic standards that states conventional grown crops or livestock will kill you or is in some way substandard food.

Exactly. So why is this whole foolish food fad based on the myth that "organic is better for you"?
 
I have ,and still own more tractors than any farmer should. I just like tractors. I do not own any that are painted up pretty and only come out of the shed to be at a show or parade. All my iron works for a living. My farm is color blind and I have owned almost every brand you can name. The green and yellow ones are easy to get parts for,find a tech to speak to about a problem, and if I ever have to sell out I wont take a skinning. Guess that is just my poor choice.
 
fresh foods myth? Have you any type of degree in heath care or are old enough to say you have seen the test of time? To Call it a myth is your opinion, not proof. None of us will be here after all this shakes out, but to bash a claim just because you dont agree is a little narrow minded. If someone wants to open their wallet and pay the price for there food who are you, or me to judge?
 
My handle is massey farmer because I LOVE Massey Harris tractors! I don't sell any so I don't worry about selling at auction, just buying. And i do hope they are worth less, that means i can buy more. Just showing you why we can't all stick together like you mentioned in your previous post, to sell one product you have to justify why the other isn't worth it and I'm tired of hearing how far superior organic milk is to mine. As far as knowing yields, while my corn fields are over your head and the organic fields are knee high you do t have to be a brain surgeon, unless the weeds make up some tonnage. The CEO of my milk coop made the comment that organic demand is declining and he sees it as a last resort before going out of business. A organic neighbor said he's been farming organically for years because he couldn't afford the fertilizer and spray anyway so he might as well get more for his product. So that's my hands on education, you keep reading.
 
Randy, I wasn't going to waste my time with this, but now that they have me started---

I have been raising beef for over forty years, now.When I started, they were grass fed because I didn't have corn. Didn't even have a corn planter, come to think of it.

As time went, the herd grew, and I needed something to feed them. Naturally, if I didn't, the neighbors tulips seemed to suffer devastating losses. So, I started raising hay, and later corn. Fertilizer made the hay grow much better, and corn was cheaper to feed them with, as silage, through the winter. Corn is a grass- so aren't my cows grass fed????

Of course, with the advent of GMO crops, and in the interest of keeping weeds down, and the bugs at bay, to increase production on the limited acres I have, I now plant GMO corn. But, it's still a grass- I can just produce one heil of a lot more of it for the same money as I can produce hay. But, if I put the manure on my hay, would it still be organic? Oh, man. Now I'm using MTM, a manure stabilizer, on my manure. Guess even my chit isn't organic now.

And, then, to keep the herd healthy, I nnalert them against everything I could dream up and whatever the vet threw in. Dang- still further from organic.

They still look and taste the same as the neighbors organic stuff- maybe even taste better because they have some fat on them.

You can sell some idiots anything- notice that they drive mini Coopers and Beemers and VW bugs.
They will buy spotted apples and half eaten by bug ears of corn and organic chickens that have been feeding on whatever superbug my GMO corn didn't kill. Just tell them it's 'organic'.

We're all organic- just in what growth stage changes. People who are edumacated will market stuff with any buzz word and buy the same to prove they are greener than the neighbor.

I, if 'organic', couldn't raise much grassfed beef on this place, and give me less money to pay for it. And I can't afford to pay several hundred bucks an acre to produce 2 ton grass hay and weedy 5 ton corn.

Sorry for the rant, but my organic azz just ain't very organiced. I, and others of our profession, are charged with feeding some 350,000,000+ people in this country, and who knows how many in other countries. I just don't feel we can feed half that number if we were organic......
 
I think I made the mistake of grouping your statement of foolish myth with the fresh foods marketing deal. Different wording, same subject. I have talked to two different farmers from the corn belt who saw attrazzen first come out. A chemical rep would take a small glass of attrazen and drink it to show farmers how safe it was. The chemical industy has always told us everything they sell is safe. I remember my Dad using boat loads of DDT. If growing food without using chemicals," even though they have been proven save" is a foolish myth, then let the people who think its safe believe. To bad your not young enough to see what things look like 40 years from now. we all might look at this issue different.I dont think all chemicals are bad, but I do believe as an industry we have used way more than we needed. I remeber when ,if 1.5 lbs. of attrex worked, then use 3 lbs. It was cheep and what would it hurt? Everyone around here dumped twice what we needed. Everything in moderation
 
Once again your eduction of organics is lacking. I do not farm organic, but have been to many successfull organic dairy farms. I am not sure it would be the right fit for me , but I did see it first hand. Not from some traveling rep. I saw corn yeilds grown organicly that I would have been proud to call mine. I saw excellent herd averages with good componants. These farms might have been the exception to the rule, but to say all organic guys are on a last ditch try shows how narrow minded someone can be.
 
I too have raised a beef or two. 5th generation and its always been about makin a buck. If you CHOOSE to raise yours the way you do great. If someone wants to do it different, isnt that ok too? The maket you sell to tells you what you will be paid. Sounds like the "grass fed" or "organic" set their own price, and the mini cooper soccer mom pays it. Most coventional minded farmers are up so high on a soap box screaming "dam the other guys". Why not let them farm the way they do on their ground? I myself dont really care about feeding 350000,000+ people. I do care about feeding MY family, and not become one more auction.
 
well I do understand what you are saying. Last summer I sold a old feild fresh oliver, shipped it to Ia. and made enough money to buy the same tractor green and yellow , but 25 years newer. Both were MFWD .one parts and dealers are still available, one,,,,, goodluck.
 
Thanks for doing all that typing so I didn't have to. One thing to add though. The organic non gmo people don't bug me until they start throwing out facts that aren't facts. The latest one I was told was round up kills all the bugs in the area. Really?
 
I guess that when I was a young lad, my grand dad was about as organic farmer as anyone could be. All his fertilizer was cow manure. He farmed with horses and when any of his cattle would get sick, he doctored with carbolic acid and lard mixture (I don't remember what it was for but I think when he dehorned or cut bull calves). He used other home remedies & I really can't remember him loosing any animals. He milked a cow by hand and shelled his corn with a hand corn sheller. He also worked from sun up till sun down and worked away from home some also. I can remember him hanging a lantern on the plow handle to see with at night. He didn't believe in tractors, said they would compact his soil too much. It seems like he always had good crops cause he plowed his corn and then him along with us boys hoed it. He would have been amazed with some of the things we have now and I truely believe he would NOT have been an organic farmer if he were farming today. This really has nothing to do with the thread that you started RR other than the fact that farmers were organic lots of years ago and it just didn't work cause they couldn't make it and get ahead. And for what it's worth, I 100% agree with you. Keith
 
Yep,that was back in the day when people had milk cows and manure piles right in town. I wonder how the yuppie soccer moms would feel about the smell and the flies today.
 
Its an interesting subject to discuss or debate a little, hopefully given that, the discussion does not turn too sour here LOL !!!

What I've always wondered, with all of this and or conventional, mass produced agriculture, from start to finish, what are the facts about say chemical fertilizer, pesticide, insecticide etc. ? Like, are these kinds of inputs, the chemicals, actually in the plants, say just fertilizer. Are the spray applied chemicals, in the plants, fed to livestock that are slaughtered for consumption and what are the effects of this on ones health ? What are the facts with this ? I know there are other things involved with livestock, hormones or whatever else, things like Don describes with the Vet, are any of these proven or known to be detrimental to ones health ? Thats the part that really gets me, what effect does all of this have on ones health and well being ? Don't think for a minute I'd take a side on this that its just all bad, and discriminate against these practices, (theres a lot more to this) I just want to know what is the bottom line with all of it ?


If you grow a vegetable garden for instance, and you grow bell peppers, organically, (something I have done for years) you do know that there are no chemical fertilizers used or insecticide/pesticides used at all. If you get a nice red bell pepper from the supermarket, its likely to have 13 different kinds of the above on it or applied to it, according to reports I have read. Now which one would you choose, most would have to say from the garden. Ok, so its peace of mind to know, but what detrimental effects are there from the supermarket bell pepper ? If in fact there are significant consequences, maybe not so immediate, but over time, then it would appear there would be a market for a seemingly better product, or lets say safer product. I still would not bash the predecessor, conventional or the current mass production agriculture, knowing there is a huge difference in sustaining organic crops, the latter of which is not easy on a large scale, and is what makes yields that feeds a very large population. That in itself is its own debate/discussion.


Personally, I don't like and avoid chemicals as best I can. I do support the organic dairy, co-op that seems to be happening regionally, and there was some interesting stories by the farmers, (check out the link). Theres a bunch of good reading in there, "Who-is your farmer". Its a resurgence of family size farms, in areas that are not the best soils or conditions, with all the same hardships any farmer has to deal with organic or not. Now maybe its just a bunch of propaganda, I do not know, but always try to scrutinize as best I can.

The thing with this is, what if that product is better, its safer and it eliminates health risks, to me that is a better product and it is something to take pride in, like many of us do with our gardens, everyone shows photos of what they grow, how they prepare the soil and or what they do to get what they have as an end result, theres a lot of great and deserved pride with all that. I for one am certainly proud to give someone produce from my garden, its as fresh as it gets and I believe there are no chemicals used.

The realization of what is sustainable on a large scale, is very clear, organic presents some very serious challenges and financial risk, but by virtue of this co-op for example, it appears that there is some recognizable success with what they are doing. That is interesting.

Additionally, I have attempted to grow a 50'x70' patch of sweet corn, organically for a few years. Whitetail deer destroyed it one year, so fast forward to last year, I used liquid fence, which is I believe natural, would have to read up on it. I planted a test crop in my upper garden, last year, forget it, the rain and cool temps in May June, it never even germinated. So I planted a late crop on that patch, after that weather pattern finally gave a break, some early variety and some longer, instead of staggering the planting, I prefer to get it in at once. One side has marginal soil, the other is actually or seemingly very good, that side did not produce very well at all, the other side did ok. Weeds, one particular type of weed/grass, really came in agressively, I did keep it at bay, but there was detrimental effect for sure. One observation, I placed a heaped garden cart of grass clippings, (lawn is not sprayed or fertilized at all) at one end of the patch, up a bit of a slope and not far from the end of the first row, the first actual plant or stalk, was near it. The grass was dried and green like hay when collected. Well those few stalks of corn grew very well, green as can be and 2 ears of corn each. Interesting, further down the row it failed, lack of nitrogen, who knows what else. I know fresh clippings are a good mulch, I've always dried mine like hay and have used it for years to mulch, stop weeds, and keep the soil moist, so this year I will get a good quality lawn sweep and use that for the entire patch, plus I've coated it with ashes over winter, will soil test, and probably side dress with dried blood or whatever is called for. In summary last year, one side did ok, could have done a lot better, but I was able to enjoy the best sweet corn I have had in a long time, fresh from the stalk to the grill. Mind you, that liquid fence is what made it work, deer left it alone, but then came back after the tassles. This year fence, and or noise makers will be employed, was not in the budget last year. In summary, growing sweet corn organically, is a real pain in the butt, hopefully I do better this year, but it was some work. Towards the end of the season, we had a really intense thunderstorm, it toppled, broke huge trees all around, uprooted a cluster of hard maple that left a huge crater, each trunk was 18" or better, I remember before it was even there, grew in after the barns were not in use a long time ago, that storm flattened my later "day" corn, so all the work for that section was for naught. However or whatever you farm, none of it is easy !!! LOL !

Now, that ear of corn in the photo, the first one I have harvested here since '97 was about $70, thats what the seed cost at least. I got a few dozen ears out of it all. I can't imagine trying this large scale, even with older methods, cultivation etc. And then theres watering, I did water mine to avoid drought conditions, we do get hot and dry spells, as well as too much rain at times, just can't win LOL !
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Organic Valley
 
(quoted from post at 13:39:19 03/28/14) Its an interesting subject to discuss or debate a little, hopefully given that, the discussion does not turn too sour here LOL !!!

What I've always wondered, with all of this and or conventional, mass produced agriculture, from start to finish, what are the facts about say chemical fertilizer, pesticide, insecticide etc. ? Like, are these kinds of inputs, the chemicals, actually in the plants, say just fertilizer. Are the spray applied chemicals, in the plants, fed to livestock that are slaughtered for consumption and what are the effects of this on ones health ? What are the facts with this ? I know there are other things involved with livestock, hormones or whatever else, things like Don describes with the Vet, are any of these proven or known to be detrimental to ones health ? Thats the part that really gets me, what effect does all of this have on ones health and well being ? Don't think for a minute I'd take a side on this that its just all bad, and discriminate against these practices, (theres a lot more to this) I just want to know what is the bottom line with all of it ?


If you grow a vegetable garden for instance, and you grow bell peppers, organically, (something I have done for years) you do know that there are no chemical fertilizers used or insecticide/pesticides used at all. If you get a nice red bell pepper from the supermarket, its likely to have 13 different kinds of the above on it or applied to it, according to reports I have read. Now which one would you choose, most would have to say from the garden. Ok, so its peace of mind to know, but what detrimental effects are there from the supermarket bell pepper ? If in fact there are significant consequences, maybe not so immediate, but over time, then it would appear there would be a market for a seemingly better product, or lets say safer product. I still would not bash the predecessor, conventional or the current mass production agriculture, knowing there is a huge difference in sustaining organic crops, the latter of which is not easy on a large scale, and is what makes yields that feeds a very large population. That in itself is its own debate/discussion.


Personally, I don't like and avoid chemicals as best I can. I do support the organic dairy, co-op that seems to be happening regionally, and there was some interesting stories by the farmers, (check out the link). Theres a bunch of good reading in there, "Who-is your farmer". Its a resurgence of family size farms, in areas that are not the best soils or conditions, with all the same hardships any farmer has to deal with organic or not. Now maybe its just a bunch of propaganda, I do not know, but always try to scrutinize as best I can.

The thing with this is, what if that product is better, its safer and it eliminates health risks, to me that is a better product and it is something to take pride in, like many of us do with our gardens, everyone shows photos of what they grow, how they prepare the soil and or what they do to get what they have as an end result, theres a lot of great and deserved pride with all that. I for one am certainly proud to give someone produce from my garden, its as fresh as it gets and I believe there are no chemicals used.

The realization of what is sustainable on a large scale, is very clear, organic presents some very serious challenges and financial risk, but by virtue of this co-op for example, it appears that there is some recognizable success with what they are doing. That is interesting.

Additionally, I have attempted to grow a 50'x70' patch of sweet corn, organically for a few years. Whitetail deer destroyed it one year, so fast forward to last year, I used liquid fence, which is I believe natural, would have to read up on it. I planted a test crop in my upper garden, last year, forget it, the rain and cool temps in May June, it never even germinated. So I planted a late crop on that patch, after that weather pattern finally gave a break, some early variety and some longer, instead of staggering the planting, I prefer to get it in at once. One side has marginal soil, the other is actually or seemingly very good, that side did not produce very well at all, the other side did ok. Weeds, one particular type of weed/grass, really came in agressively, I did keep it at bay, but there was detrimental effect for sure. One observation, I placed a heaped garden cart of grass clippings, (lawn is not sprayed or fertilized at all) at one end of the patch, up a bit of a slope and not far from the end of the first row, the first actual plant or stalk, was near it. The grass was dried and green like hay when collected. Well those few stalks of corn grew very well, green as can be and 2 ears of corn each. Interesting, further down the row it failed, lack of nitrogen, who knows what else. I know fresh clippings are a good mulch, I've always dried mine like hay and have used it for years to mulch, stop weeds, and keep the soil moist, so this year I will get a good quality lawn sweep and use that for the entire patch, plus I've coated it with ashes over winter, will soil test, and probably side dress with dried blood or whatever is called for. In summary last year, one side did ok, could have done a lot better, but I was able to enjoy the best sweet corn I have had in a long time, fresh from the stalk to the grill. Mind you, that liquid fence is what made it work, deer left it alone, but then came back after the tassles. This year fence, and or noise makers will be employed, was not in the budget last year. In summary, growing sweet corn organically, is a real pain in the butt, hopefully I do better this year, but it was some work. Towards the end of the season, we had a really intense thunderstorm, it toppled, broke huge trees all around, uprooted a cluster of hard maple that left a huge crater, each trunk was 18" or better, I remember before it was even there, grew in after the barns were not in use a long time ago, that storm flattened my later "day" corn, so all the work for that section was for naught. However or whatever you farm, none of it is easy !!! LOL !

Now, that ear of corn in the photo, the first one I have harvested here since '97 was about $70, thats what the seed cost at least. I got a few dozen ears out of it all. I can't imagine trying this large scale, even with older methods, cultivation etc. And then theres watering, I did water mine to avoid drought conditions, we do get hot and dry spells, as well as too much rain at times, just can't win LOL !
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Organic Valley
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I just started getting that nasty grass/weed in my fields (I don't spray for weeds or bugs)....anyone know what it is?
 
So your biggest complaint is the supposed myths that the "Mini Cooper moms" are spreading? Than by default you are saying that what Monsanto and all the other chemical companies are saying is the absolute truth? If you are upset about the price difference for your product verses theirs, there is no reason why you cannot become certified. I think some people just like to complain.
 
Cripes if that were true, I should have no mosquitoes, gnats, etc. Adjacent to our land, on a slope that adjoins our pond is 20+ acres of field corn, he applies round up,I called and asked about it. That year, it rained like heck right after he applied it, had to have washed into that pond, we have no shortage of bugs mosquitoes here, that is for sure LOL! I was concerned about that particular situation, one look at the radar on your smartphone would have told you to wait on the spraying, they did it anyway. I was worried about contamination of this healthy body of water, about 20 acres itself with no algae, mill foil or what have you. I'd not been happy if livestock drank from it, thankfully we built a pond upstream, 40 some odd years back, which is fed from another marsh further up the stream, one of 2 that feed the big pond, which takes run off from the field, I'd have to wonder if that would have been an issue with the stream that drains from that pond, to the next farm it passes through which is not that far down stream.
 
I'm not sure myself, someone will know, if they can see it well enough, it does or seems to be clump grass, shades and covers the soil, and is all that grew besides the corn. I had a row of potatoes in front of that corn, it got ahead of me, but I still got a harvest of small potatoes, filled (2) 12 pack beer boxes at least. It will be plowed under soon as the weather breaks, but I will say its thick, and it produces a lot of seed at the end. Thick mulch ought to snuff it out, but you have to get that mulch on there as soon as possible, soon as you see the corn come up, then you know where the rows are. I'm sure that darned grass did a number on this corn last year.
 
Closest image I could find with that splayed out thin top was called crabgrass, not sure if that's what it was, it looks like it.

I get purslane,(edible) lambsquarter, smart weed, pig weed (pig and or lamb, wood chucks prefer it over garden plants around here LOL ! I can tell when one has been in my garden as its clipped off)

I've seen poke weed as well + some others but this grass is the only weed in that patch, its all the same.
 
Just play by the rules. That's all I ask. If you can't,because of the weather,sell it as conventional,don't change the rules because it's what's economically necessary to keep charging twice the price. If you believe anything less than those standards will harm somebody then have a conscience and sell it for what it really is. Simple as that.
 
I don't think you had anything to worry about. The best way to neutralize Roundup is dirt.
 
I think the question is, can it be proven that the organic crops are so much better for you?

As you stated, "so if a consumer wants to pay more for something they feel is better so be it".

Most organic consumers really don't know if the product is better for them, but to them it sounds like it should be.

Here is a thought, most people don't know what chemicals are in the toothpaste they use.
There is a warning on toothpaste that says if you swallow some of it contact the poison control center.

If you never swallow any toothpaste you still have some enter your system just by brushing your teeth every day.
 
Eldon, I believe the weed is Fall Panicum. It will
take over in fields that are sprayed too, because
it germinates late in the season after sprays have
either become neutralized or washed down into the
soil below the germination layer. Witch grass is
similar but with a purplish tint to it.
 
Duner, you are absolutely correct. In fact until a few years ago there was no grazing requirement, just that livestock needed to be fed organic feed. There were some confinement operations feeding all organic feed with no grazing and it was decided this was a loophole that needed to be closed. I'm not an organic farmer myself, but I dont see this as big conspiracy or lowering of standards, just a common sense temporary solution to a drought.
 
(quoted from post at 19:17:53 03/28/14) Eldon, I believe the weed is Fall Panicum. It will
take over in fields that are sprayed too, because
it germinates late in the season after sprays have
either become neutralized or washed down into the
soil below the germination layer. Witch grass is
similar but with a purplish tint to it.
Click to expand...

Come to think of it mine had a purple tint to it..
 
I don't trust the GMO stuff or chem companies like ADM and Monsanto. I also don't trust the organic industry and I certainly don't trust the gov't to oversee it all and not take bribes from both sides in various forms to further the agenda. So I use mostly manure and crop rotation for fertilization, I might spot spray a qt if Roundup a year and I don't worry about my organic neighbors and what they do. It's all lies. You fart around dumping chemicals on your land like there's no tomorrow and sooner or later it will catch up with you. You screw around with genetics and eventually you'll breed something bad that we can't stop and you scare people into thinking that everything they eat, do or say will kill them or someone else and it's just a lie.

Guys, it's all one industry trying to outsell another. Do what works for you on your farm and eat what you want to eat. Just remember, at one time there were ads from doctors in the papers of the day telling people smoking was GOOD for them.
 
Likely true, I called in a friendly manner, and we spoke, just like many of us do here. The immediate weather and storm concerned me as it was just sprayed. He said about the same thing. Local, but long time farmer who went in the direction of a large operator, all for grain, and I believe all corn, they do hauling, have several large bins etc. The field is actually, or was nice ground, my neighbor planted it for most of his career as a farmer, for many years, he divided it into strips, to mitigate soil erosion, but now its all put into corn, and like I recall in the 70's it starts to make huge ruts, and the soil that built up after my friend stopped planting it, was hay and grasses, weeds for many years, is now washing away. I wish he put a buffer in at least, after last years washout, then the geese taking more than half of that crop, I have to wonder what will happen this year.
 
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