Snowmobile Troubles

rusty6

Well-known Member
Not sure how this will end up but I guess the landowner was pushed to his limits and finally things got a little violent.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/snowmobilers-threatened-with-gun-catch-incident-on-video-1.2577303
 

Here we have State of Michigan trails to ride on. You have to buy a forty five dollar trail permit, and stick it on your sled. They'll have signs saying, "crossing private property and stay on the trail". The State pays the land owner for the right to cross on the trail. You'll still see where some will still ride off the trail. Just no respect I guess. But pulling out a gun is a serious offence.
 
I have to wonder what the punk would have done if the man didn't have a gun. He had no business getting off his snowmobile with such an attitude,must not be very smart running up to somebody with a gun.very easily avoided if they stay where they belong!last i checked you are allowed to protect yourself on your own land,you can't just confront someone empty handed and hope they mean no harm.I see no problem with the land owners actions.
 
Well, after reviewing the video, it appears the agitated land owner, (and I can understand that aspect of it) is extremely foolish when it comes to his own safety.

1.) 0:28 of video, If I were the rider and he tried to strike me, that arm would have been a bonus point, it was lame and weak, he'd have gone on the ground and lost the weapon, likely with a broken or seriously injured arm/shoulder. He could have easily been foot swept or thrown, key is to really tie up that other arm til the shotgun drops. Sure these guys can tick off a landowner, but doing what he did was entirely stupid. That would be me, even though in the wrong by riding on his land, I would look at it with no other choice, angry person waving a gun, just gave me one chance to eliminate that threat. Each to their own. Who knows, round in the chamber, safety on, not on, the chance you take. Muzzle was pointed down, he strikes with the opposite arm, you can't hesitate, catch that arm, pull him in, offset his balance, and you control him by inflicting pain, if you know what you are doing and practice same. In reality, you see someone with a gun, and you're on a sled, can go around, turn around, get away or just pass with a wide berth, why even bother with the confrontation, you should get the point, there is a problem and know not to return.

*****I do NOT recommend anyone to confront someone who is armed and try and resolve it with a physical altercation, just making a point, this is way off topic here.*****

2.) at 0:32, he takes his eyes off the person he struck, at that point he could have been easily taken out.

3.) Brandishing a firearm like that, foolishness. He could have been easily overcome, then what ? I prefer to be armed when dealing with this problem, but its far better to not advertise that, depending what I have on me, it dictates the distance I keep until I can see or determine that there is no threat, even then I am very cautious and keep some space. You should keep calm, don't escalate something like that, ask them to remove their helmets, get their names/addresses, any pertinent information you can, say what you need to say, video them carefully if you can, but never put yourself in danger, just make the necessary phone calls if you believe you are in danger well before you set up your own road block.

Every situation, locale, people/culture is different, you never know what you may get into, you have to use some tact, he did the opposite, visibly angry, confrontation, strikes one of them, he looks like a darned fool.

My philosophy is simple, I have often confronted people and have been outnumbered by ATV operators. Most often, I wave em over, many times I pop out of the brush, or from a blindspot. Ask names and addresses, where did they enter the property, explain its posted. I keep them in front of me and at a distance, maybe I have a rifle on me, maybe I have something else you can't see. Maybe I have something hidden within reach, my land, my gauntlet if need be. I take advantage of choke points for this reason. Either or it gives me peace of mind, I do NOT attack people in a fit of rage, that will get you seriously injured or worse. If there is that kind of element out there, potentially violent or malicious, then make the appropriate maneuvers, fence, signs, whatever, then call the law. I know, some places the law don't care, you have to work around it, going head to head, alone is plain stupid.

I've caught a scant few jerks, rarely, most are pleasant, respectful, and I explain it to them politely, most do not come back, its been quiet this winter, oddly enough. Sometimes I run into people I know, or there is some common ground, ends up with a friendly conversation, you still need to be aware of your surroundings but if you act like a jerk, they will definitely do the same, best to use your wits, than brawn.
 
There are 2 kinds of folks, those that own land , and those that have snowmobiles. The ones with the sleds, are mostly young men , with crumby seasonal jobs , that leave them on the dole all winter , with nothing to do , except ride there sleds. They care little about private property , because they have none. Either live with mom and dad, or are just fresh devoiced , and have not been able to shake off childhood. But that is just the ones I know , but maybe you have a different kind of jerk in your area. And did I say that I am sick of them running on my farm too!
 
Running up to someone brandishing a shotgun is one of those things I would have to think long and hard about. I think he had every right to do what he did, IMHO trespassing should be a hanging offense, wouldn't take long for people to get the idea.
 
The snowmobile riders have admitted to trespassing, why hasn't law enforcement done anything
about it? Maybe the landowner's reaction was wrong (okay it was flat out wrong) but many
landowners have the perception that LEOs and the DA/PA won't do a darn thing about trespassers
on snowmobiles and to top it off they can trespass, get hurt on your property and sue you. Law
enforcement needs to realize the emotions the land owners have and that if they fail to do
anything they will get the perception of doughnut eating unionized do nothings, that will
erode their community support and could cause a rise in vigilante justice. I know here in the
US in many states if you have a dog you are required to buy a dog license, a large portion of
the license fees are set aside to be used to reimburse livestock owners who have stock
attacked by dogs. The only problem is 1- the government gets the money and doesn't want to let
go of it and 2- Law enforcement won't get off their unionized derrieres to fill out the paper
work so you can collect for the damages. But I digress, maybe registration fees should be
collected and pooled to pay landowners for property damage caused by snowmobiles. OR
landowners should require the state, county, township or club running snowmobile trails to
carry very big liability policies to cover property damage and bodily injury to snowmobile
riders OR require sled owners to carry insurance that land and stock owners could collect
under when they stray off the approved path and trespass.
 
They were riding on his property, he caught up with them on the neighbors property, are you okay with that?

By your logic someone could steal your truck, once they have possession of your truck, it becomes theirs and you no longer have a right to it?
 

My buddy who has a big vegetable operation saw a bunch of four wheelers on the utility line right of way down behind his place. It was in the spring and it was muddy. He grabbed his shot gun and went around to the road crossing and intercepted them, and could see that they had pulled down some fence. He always talks pretty slow so expect that he did to them too, as he cradled the gun in his arm and asked them each for twenty dollars donation towards fixing his fence. I told him that I thought that he was getting a little out on the edge.
 
I should have replied to mab570diesel's reply farther down. He said the guy has every right to protect himself on his own land. Which is not the case here. I was not saying the guy was wrong for confronting them, just pointing that out. I am not defending the people trespassing believe me.
 
The local club here that organizes the trail system carries insurance. If someone gets hurt on private land that the trail crosses the club's insurance covers it. If a rider gets hurt on private land that the trail does not cross, the owner is on his own.
 
I chased some off my property,they called the sheriff on me said I had a gun. The sheriff acted like I might go to jail.He called the county prosecuter who said to let it go.I was told your not allowed to use a gun to protect property,just your life.
 
Superb advice!! We also need to know our state legal code and be acquainted with local LEO's before we encounter them on official business.
 
Well, it's idiots like those that were tearing up
someone's property that give a bad name to us all.
I also have run off snowmobiler's riding on my
property, and yes, with my gun. I ride, and I stay
on the trails or roads, that is what they are for.
People need to respect others property. The punks
just do not give a damned about who's property they
destroy to have their fun. They should be charged,
not the land owner. The kid started by running his
mouth fully knowing they were in the wrong.
 
You need to do some research on who it is that owns snowmobiles. It takes a lot of money to buy and ride these days and it's not too many that can afford it on part time jobs or if they are on the dole.
 
(quoted from post at 16:44:44 03/24/14) The local club here that organizes the trail system carries insurance. If someone gets hurt on private land that the trail crosses the club's insurance covers it. If a rider gets hurt on private land that the trail does not cross, the owner is on his own.

It works the same here in NH except that the state covers the insurance.
 
(quoted from post at 18:38:13 03/24/14) No research needed.A new sled will run you between $10,ooo. -$14,000. But used ones trade from 2-5K range. Very much in the price range of good old boys.
Theres plenty of the big new expensive machines out here too. Not to say that all owner/drivers are guilty of trespassing. As in most sports there are always a few who give the rest a bad name by their irresponsible actions. These guys in the video could have just drove around the truck and avoided the confrontation but they didn't.
 
not to mention mommy or daddy probably bought them!and being disrespectful really knows no age,I have seen older fellows with a bad attitude as well.
 
It works the same here in NH except that the state covers the insurance.

Same here in Maine.

Honestly there's idiots everywhere. I get a lot of enjoyment from snowmobiling but I also follow the rules. It sad that a few, and I mean a very few can ruin the reputation of the majority.

At the very least on a snowmobile there's far less ground impact then ATVs. Those boys seem to look for mud and love to leave tracks. They also don't have the club systems snowmobilers do, at least around here.

K
 

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