6v to 12v

"Generator - Since the generator is not made to produce 12-volts, it cannot be modified to charge a 12-volt battery." As on the home page right now.

I just love seeing people say this. Really irks me when they talk and don't know what they are talking about. It is pure BS. I have several tractors that I have personally have converted to 12v using the original 6v gen. Who is the gen's boss. The regulator. The gen does not know what to charge unless it has something telling it what to do. It does not care if it charges 6,12, or 24 volts. The regulator tells it what to do. Your only advantage to a 12 alt is no outside regulator with open points. Whats more of an advantage is having to think up a way to mount the new alt and waste more time. If anyone has any questions on conversions feel free to contact me with them. I'm always happy to help.

A generator is wound to produce a nominal voltage based on how hard it is excited.

I would dispute that a 6V generator could reliably produce 24V. It will probably produce 12V reliably.

The disadvantage to a generator is that the current produced must travel through the commutator, and it will not generally produce as much current at low RPM as an Alternator.

So, if I want to put a 12 volt battery in my Farmall super M, I can just put a 12 volt regulator on it along with changing the light bulbs to 12 volt??? Might have to put a resistor in the line to the coil also.

(quoted from post at 10:46:43 02/17/14) "Generator - Since the generator is not made to produce 12-volts, it cannot be modified to charge a 12-volt battery." As on the home page right now.

I just love seeing people say this. Really irks me when they talk and don't know what they are talking about. It is pure BS. I have several tractors that I have personally have converted to 12v using the original 6v gen. Who is the gen's boss. The regulator. The gen does not know what to charge unless it has something telling it what to do. It does not care if it charges 6,12, or 24 volts. The regulator tells it what to do. Your only advantage to a 12 alt is no outside regulator with open points. Whats more of an advantage is having to think up a way to mount the new alt and waste more time. If anyone has any questions on conversions feel free to contact me with them. I'm always happy to help.

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One of the reasons some people convert is to get the reliability gained with an alternator. Anyone can do as they wish, leave it 6 volt or convert. Then when they do decide to convert they can go with a 12 volt genny or alternator. IT really doesn't take much time to fab mounts for an alternator.

Rick

A thing that makes me chuckle is, people say their Bendix on the starter is bad.

andy r : This has been what I do when I make the changes.
- replace battey
- neg. ground
- 12v coil with internal resistor
- 12v regulator as close to identical to the old one as possible.
- 12 light bulbs
- change wires from side to side on back of amp gauge if it was a positive ground sys. before you started.
I have run this way on my tractors for quite a few years. But they do not parade around. I use these as they were intended in a hay operation. Have not so much as had to charge a battery once since I converted. To me it's nice to leave to original look and fit of the original gen and have the convince of 12v.
The purpose of the post was to call out the nonfactual part of the "6v cannot be converted to 12v" because it can and work just fine.

This was just a tip to help those who do like the original look and want to use this direction.

There were several model tractors made from the factory with 12 volt generators.
These are usually open on the ends and more susceptible to dust. Not too high amp either.
In one of these cases someone may want to switch it out to an alt. to gain more amps and reliability.

Do take into consideration though that the field coils in the 6 volt generator has less resistance so unless you have an adjustable third brush generator, you run way more current through that field coil which inturn runs through the points in the voltage regulator. Changing to 12 volts field coils is a better solution for good long life of the vibrating voltage regulating contacts. Do as you like, but it is not user friendly to tell others they are wrong when they want to do things differently than you do.

Well there are LESS accurate statements than calling a starter drive a "Bendix" as they came up with a good design and made LOTS of "em!


Also, to some, every "rotary cutter" is a "Bush Hog"!

I was going to convert my Farmall B (Mag fired) to 12 volt because 6 volt gen. was so bad it needed a complete rebuild. I found it easier and cheaper to go with a 6 volt alternator and only changes made were to mounts and it looks like it came from factory with an alternator. The alternator work great for me because I use the tractor for short period of time and the alternator keeps battery fully charged.

Just curious why you change to negative ground?
I've got 12 volt generators on my Oliver 66 and 77. I left both positive ground. Is there an advantage to negative ground?

Ken Updike has come up with nice conversion kits.

Correction Charlie Updike.

I do the same. I consider pos ground to be a dangerous oddball in an otherwise 99% 12V neg ground world.
Converting to neg ground eliminates some confusion when charging or jump starting. Also 12V neg ground allows you to use many modern polarity sensitive accessories that have permanent magnet motors or solid state electronics that are almost exclusivly 12V neg ground.

I am also not too keen on using a 6V generator to produce 12V using a 12V regulator. Not only does the 6V generator need more rpm to produce 12V, but the field impedience is wrong and causes more wear and problems with the already troublesome vibrating contact mechanical regulators.
My older tractors are all daily workers, not a parade queen in the bunch, so give me a reliable rotating field generator (alternator) with an accurate reliable solid state regulator built in.

Also, although I have just about given up thinking the public will ever understand,
There is no such thing as a coil with a built in resistor. You cant put a red hot resistor inside an oil filled coil can without having a burst and burn disaster. What some seem to think is a coil with a built in resistor, is actually a coil with a primary winding made from thinner, longer magnet wire that will run on 12V without an external resistor. No internal resistor is ever used, such a coil does not exist.
Your choices are a coil with a 1.5 ohm primary winding, that runs on 6V, or, when series wired with a 1.5 ohm external resistor, can run on 12V. The other option is to use a coil with a 3 ohm primary winding, which does not have any sort of resistor inside, which will run on 12V without the aid of an external resistor.

I have successfully used 6 volt generators to charge a 12 volt battery by ONLY changing the Voltage Regulator to a 12 volt. NOTE Billy Bob, I'm NOT saying it sets the world on fire or charges at any super high rate, I'm ONLY saying it can work, here's the theory and reason why:

Basically a genny don't necessarily know its output, that's increased by 1) Turning it faster or 2) Pumping more current through its field coils which increases their magnetic field strength. The VR is what determines and regulates how much current to pass through the fields so if a 12 volt VR is installed it can allow more current through the field coils so she can charge at 12 volts.

NOW BEFORE ANYONE HAS A CALF HERES THE DANGER:

The 12 volt VR MAY PUMP MORE CURRENT THROUGH THE FIELDS THEN THEY WERE DESIGNED TO HANDLE AND THAY COULD OVERHEAT. A genny shop can change out the field coils to those rated for the amount of current the VR may allow.

So, YES it can work, YES Ive done it and never had any problems, HOWEVER as an Electrical Engineer Im NOT recommending you try this at home lol do it at your own risk, the more correct engineering way would be to have it converted although, as I say, Ive done it no problems!!

John t retired Electrical Engineer

Years ago, I got into a heated argument with one of my uncles.

I claimed only crawler tractors made by Caterpillar were Caterpillars, and the rest were crawler type tractors. He claimed anything with crawlers was a Caterpillar.

Just like my mother called any camera a "Kodak", regardless of manufacturer.

Oh, well.

generators were made that produce 12 volts, there is one on this 1957 chevy truck im working on it may even be the original one, dont know, but it has a tag right on it that clearly states it is a 12 volt generator

John T,

You nailed it, there is a difference between working and working well.

We could start a whole new thread on brand names that were the first or most popular that they became the generic name for any brand product of that type.

Bendix = starter drive.

Bush hog = rotaty mower.

Kodak = camera.

In my area, going back a couple generations,

Prestone = permanent antifreeze

Deepfreeze = any brand chest freezer.

Frigidair = any brand refrigerator.

Coke in the deep south, = any brand or flavor soft drink / pop / soda.

Was in a salvage yard one time where an old fellow walked in and asked the owner for a speedometer snick(snake) for a 49 Chevy ;-)

yes there is 12 volt generators in the later 1950's.
the 60 series tractors also have 12 volt generators right up to 1963. so do the wd9's , 400's and 450's.

John T :

A few years ago I picked up an extra genny for my old Ford. I suspected it was a 6v instead of the 12v I needed because it had different cooling slots. I called my local rebuilder and asked him if he could tell me how to tell which I had or if I needed to bring it in for him to test. Must have caught him on a bad day cause his reply was "there is no such thing as a 6v or 12v generator ". "Generators produce amps not volts". Technically he was right but what good would 6 amps at 12v be? lol