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USS Forrestal

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Anonymous-0

Well-known Member

Sad. That great ship is headed to the scrap yard in Texas. I am a Army guy not Navy, but still, I wish they could have made her a museum, or at least a reef.
 
I"m ex Navy and spent time on an old carrier (USS America) so seeing all those great ships getting cut up and sent to China, or where ever, to be turned into the latest round of junk makes me sick. They tried to get the America, the only modern ship to carry the name, made into a museum, but they couldn"t come up with the funds. At least she went out in a blaze of glory as a test ship for the latest and greatest in weapons, instead of falling to a scraper"s torch. Still sad to think the passage ways I walked, the spaces I once though of as home, are now sitting on the bottom of the ocean as an artificial reef....that"s WAAAAAYYYYY too deep for anyone to even dive on to visit.
 
I was on the USS Saratoga CVA 60. Sister to the Forrestal. You would think they would at least keep the first. Super Carrier ever made.
 
Was that John MCCain's ship?

I could be wrong... That's a lot of iron.


The Bible says to beat your swords into plow shares. I am with the Bible. If they can make some good farm tools from the scrap, I am on board.


I want peace. I want us all to be in peace and I want us all to take the money we spend on warfare and put it to good use to make us all fat and happy. A bomb, or a war ship never did as much as a peaceful nation who made food for everyone. I want everyone to make food and break bread together.

Why can't we all just make peace and break bread together? I love me some bread and some good salted butter. I guess I am a fool for hoping we could all just eat together.

I would never fight a man who wanted to eat with me.

Let's all pray that we can all eat together and enjoy all that we can harvest. In God's name, I pray.
 
Yes that is the ship John Mccain served on.
It was nicknamed the USS firestarter by the sailors that were on it.
I think 2 new carriers have been made in the last 5 years. The USS Ron Reagan and the USS Harry Truman. (Naming ships after presidents is real dumb) Admirals yes, Politcians No Way.
 
Yeah, it's sad to see them go.
But we can't save them all.
Look at the USS Texas - the last remaining Dreadnought era battleship. They can barely keep her open as a museum due to lack of funds.
I hope to visit her someday.
USS Texas BB35
 
Having grown up down there I liked the USS Alabama in Mobile much better. No offense to the old girl. Just that the later BBs were just a lot more ship. There is an interesting memorial on her however. They have a "round" somewhere around 14" that hit her but didn't explode. So they resleeved it and put it on display. Interesting.

But if you go be sure to check out the museum in the base of the San Jacinto (pronounced hacento) monument. Check out Wikipedia on the subject.

Thing that really got my eye as a youngster were the displays in the rotunda. They were hand made of balsa wood and cloth and replicated living conditions in the early republic.

I don't know if you can still go up to the observation deck just under the star.....Lone Star Republic of Texas (pronounced tehas). You can see for miles and miles.

Mark
 
I agree with you John. It seems someone always wants to war. War usually breaks most countries financially and so many lives lost.
 

I'm with UD. I hope to visit the Texas one day I know that the group that cares for her has really tough financial problems.
 
I agree with you, but the sad truth is
that it takes 2 to make peace but only 1
to make war. Amazing to me still that
something that heavy can float.
 
I visited the Alabama when our ship was in Mobile in the early 70s. For guys who have never toured an old BB it is definately worth the trip.
 
John Posted about how he would like it to be like the Bible tells us.

Isaiah 2:4

"And he will judge between the nations, and will decide concerning many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."


I wish that the real world was like the Bible would like the world to be.

Here is a more realistic quote from Benjamin Franklin:

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords"


The current Politicians that are tearing the best military in the world apart at the alter of FREE everything for the masses will live to rue the day they did so.

FDR did much the same during the depression and that was part of the reason the Japanese thought that an attack on Pearl Harbor would be effective. We where able to switch your manufacturing plants to war good and win the war. We could not do that today. There are too many things made in China that are no longer made here in the USA.

If we where to fight the Chinese in a few years we will not have the equipment and or the manufacturing to win.

Talk to some of the WWII Vets about training with wooden rifles and driving Jeeps around pretending they where tanks. A major call up would have that happening again.


This quote from George Santayana really applies in today's world.

‘Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.’
 
That's a noble sentiment but there's an old saying that applies, "If you want peace, be prepared for war".

Been to the USS Alabama a few times. Very interesting, but you can tell that it's all they can do to keep ahead of the elements. It's had several degrees of list since Hurricane Katrina that they can't resolve.

I'd love to see the Texas and the Missouri at Pearl Harbor.
 
MCCain was on the Forrestal when the fire broke out. But he didn't have anything to do with the fire.

I like your idea about peace John. But it will never happen. To many idiots in the world.
 
I think the lack of "history" hurts having enthusiasm in her. Had she been at the raid on Pearl Harbor I think it would get people's pulses racing higher. Unfortunately the battleships that survived famous battles such as the Pennsylvania or Nevada were in poor general condition when WWII ended and were cost prohibitive to do anything with in terms of a museum. Some fellow over in Britain I believe is reconstructing a full scale replica of the Titanic so maybe somebody will do something with a battleship. Whether that is in good taste is another matter.
McCain's ship was the Coral Sea which was turned into a Coral Reef a few years ago.
 
Thanks for the link! Been on the ship many times. absolutely amazing that that much steel can float!

Didn't know about the "hard hat tours", I will be doing that ASAP!

"You are going into areas of the ship that have not had any restoration work done for several years so these areas can be quite dirty. Wear clothing that is appropriate for this type of adventure."

Sounds like my kind of adventure!
 
Don't forget about the USS North Carolina docked on the Cape Fear river in Wilmington, NC. A great tour!
 
I have been on the USS Texas, Alabama, and North Carolina. Then the Yorktown and numerous subs, and smaller ships.

Got to go on a "Tiger Cruise" on my sons ship when he served on the USS Stephen W. Groves FFG-29. They just decomissioned it. We spent two days in the Atlantic.

Gene
 
Playing devil's advocate here, but: Unfortunately, every ship has a special place in someone's heart, and if we kept them all our harbors would be clogged with derelict hulks of once-great vessels, and you'd be complaining about *THAT*.

It's just like tractors. You can't keep 'em all. We're already up to our eyeballs in military museums that don't get enough attendance to keep the doors open without government funding. We've already got enough old military metal sitting in boneyards rusting away.
 
When were you on the Sara?

I was in a Marine Corps fighter squadron aboard the Sara for carrier quals in the fall of 1956 when the ship herself was brand new and still in shakedown.

She's been parked, too, now.
 
I went aboard in Dec 1968 in the Philly yards.For a farm boy that was one big ship. No way it could float.Started out in 4MMR then to the boat shop. Was made the engineman on the Captains Gig. Got out in Subic Bay Oct 1972
 
It's sad in a way to break them up... but at least it's getting done in a local yard and not on a beach in India. There's no practical purpose to keeping these hulks around anymore... and the scrap steel alone from that thing is probably worth in excess of 15 million, never mind the copper that's in it. Someone's budget somewhere is wanting to get his hands on that.

Rod
 
The comment about Roosevelt cutting the military during the depression is inaccurate. The US military was cut back to peacetime levels after WWI. Roosevelt tried to rearm starting in late thirties in response to Hitler. Finally, he was able to get a one year draft in 1940 despite the efforts of isolationist likes of Lindbergh, Sen.Taft and et-al.
 
One can only hope the ship will be disassembled by independent contractors.. otherwise that scrap value will be in the "red" as other government ventures go.. It's a shame to scrap out these vessels , but we can't make every one a museum .. I went to the "Cod" in Cleveland last year.. Now that was an eye opening experience.. I couldn't get over the cramped quarters that those men had to endure.. My hat is off to all the veterans of service during war and conflict..
 
I was The USS Coral Sea CVA-43 during Vietnam,(1971-1975). She went the same route via the scrapyard. Hate to see them go,but a lot of the Forrestal class and Midway class carriers cannot take the larger aircraft the Navy has now days. The Coral Sea could not take F-14"s because they were too long and you could not raise the J.B.D."s during launch. Plus today"s carriers are converting over to electro - magnetic catapults instead of steam driven.
 
Not sure if there is such thing as "an ex-sailor", Wayne. We are just no longer on active duty. I'm sure you know what I mean.
 
A good many ships are being decommissioned. Got an e-mail not long ago that the navy was down sizing from 52 ships down to 32. That is one heck of a cut in ships and men
 
Where you by chance on that ship say in the late 70s early 80s?? If I remember right we did a med cruise and your ship was going back in our place and the JFK out ran your ship but that was some 34 or so years ago
 
Something to remember and carefully consider, we live in different times, who is to say what happens, "forewarned should equal being forearmed" you just hope to never have to see it.

Maybe I am a fool, as I don't see the need for war, but civilization sure has done different since the beginning of time, seemingly not having a choice in the matter if they wanted to survive, its something I'll never really understand.
 
From the viewpoint of a SCUBA Instructor, it is a sad shame that this great vessel cannot be reasonably sank as an artificial reef. It provides homes for SO much marine life, as well as a place for divers to explore safely, if it is sank in the right spot.
Unfortunately, there is SO much work required by the EPA, OSHA, etc. that it becomes almost impossible to sink a ship like this, even if the ship itself is free! The USS Oriskany was sank off of Pensacola, Fl. not too many years ago, but I think it cost Walton County like 7 figures to do it. Shame, IMHO.
USS Oriskany
 
I can only assume those numbers refer to a part of the 'mothball fleet' that's sitting somewhere. The active fleet is somewhere in magnitude of nearly 300 ships....
I was under the impression that the less valuable members of the mothball fleet were being scrapped in Texas as the capacity to scrap them was made available.

Rod
 
Actually according to the US Navy there are 85 active duty ships and submarines and 198 "deployable" ships and submarines. One must remember that the USS North Carolina (decommissioned in 1947) is a "deployable" ship.


http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=146
 
Plus there is one from back around 1776 that is still in active duty all the Constitution in Boston. While it is nothing more then a tourist trap it is still listed as active. The e-mail I was talking about comes from Military dot com or some such place
 
What I find amazing is the fact the active duty US airforce only deploys 20 bombers - all are almost or over 20 years old. All the B1s and B52s are assigned to reserve units. Currently there are only 60 combat ready bombers in the entire US - reserves and active duty.
 
I agree with what you say about the bible, but you need to keep reading, It says that sometimes we are to beat our plowshares into swords, There is a time for peace and a time to fight. What else do we expect from the current crop of limp wristed politicians that are fleecing us Americans. We will be judged sooner than later, we can get away with murder no longer. As a nation we have done it to ourselves. We will soon be held accountable for the lives of helpless little ones snuffed out in the sanctuary of their own mother's womb. Around 55 million souls. Our judgement is coming. SAD
 
My mother's cousin was on the Forrestal when she had her fire. Last I knew he had trouble sleeping to this day from the nightmares of men burned alive. He wouldn't talk about it much. Just let it eat him up inside that he couldn't save his buddies. He said there was nothing worse than a fire at sea.
 
Well those in D.C. want us the U.S.A. to be caught with are pants down so that those they want to come in power can do so easily. That is also why they want our guns and ammo
 
You may be correct. I don't know for sure. It just strikes me that when you take 10 carriers and add up their respective groups you're likely to come up with more than 85 ships...
I looked at the same link earlier... and I would take 'deployable' to mean ships that are seaworthy and basically ready for crew. There's a lot of stuff in the mothball fleet that's there for no reason other than they haven't been stricken from the register... for whatever reason.... but would hardly be considered ready to be pressed into service.

Rod
 
I'd wager it has more to do with the notion that they don't want to continue to fund the upkeep on something that's not really needed...
 
You mean like the 7 Sea-Bee Battlains (sp) that where cut and that in turn kicked out around 1000 or so navy guys many which due to the fact they did not do there full time got general discharges
 
(quoted from post at 18:19:39 02/06/14) One must remember that the USS North Carolina (decommissioned in 1947) is a "deployable" ship.


http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=146
Click to expand...

The North Carolina is not "deployable", according to the US Navy she dont exist. She was decommishioned in June of 1947. In June of 1960 she was stricken from the Naval Vessel Register. In 1961 she was sold to the state of North Carolina for $330,000

http://www.nvr.navy.mil/nvrships/details/BB55.htm
 
Maybe your thinking about the USS New Jersey, as it was made into a museum but was supposed to be maintained in such a way that it could be put back into service if needed. As far as the USS North Carolina, it is in no way deployable. In fact it's scheduled to be dug out of the silt that has had it trapped for a lot of years and towed somewhere to be made fit to maintain it's status as a 'floating' museum. There are so many things about it that have been modified that would effect it's fighting/water tight integrity, (((( ie- access holes cut in the bulkhead between the steering gear spaces, a huge hole cut to allow visitors access into the 16 inch gun turret without climbing ladders, etc like the crew would have had to do, etc, etc)))) there's no way it could ever be put back into service without years of repairs. Not to mention none of the electrical system has ever been upgraded to anywhere near the standards needed today. In the end it's nothing but a beautiful, floating museum that makes you really appreciate what the crew did for this country.
 
Nah, I'm not quite that old yet. I went in in July of '86 for a 6 year hitch. After boot camp, A school, and another 19 plus weeks of special school in 'Great Mistakes' I served aboard the USS William V Pratt (DDG-44 ex DLG-44) from early in '87 until '89 stationed out of Charleston, SC. From there I went to Norfolk, VA for my C school, and then stayed on the USS America (CV-66) until December of '91. From there it was down to Naval Station Ingleside, TX for shore duty pre-com at that base until I took Clinton's early out option and came home in May of '92. Sometimes I wish I had stayed in, but give the things I was beginning to see happening I 'jumped ship' before things got to PC, etc, etc, etc, and am dang glad I did.
 
Yep, I know exactly what you mean. It's funny, as many bad times as there were, I always tend to remember the good times so much more. I know I learned a lot, grew up a lot and wouldn't trade the experience for anything. I mean what's better than going out on the deck just at dark and laying back looking at the stars while taking in the sea air and listening the awesome sounds of the ship cutting through the water. Just thinking about it as I write this really takes me back.....MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
 
I do know that Iowa was to be maintained in such a way that it could be reactivated if necessary. I can't imagine what situation might really require it to be reactivated tho... The actual purpose of those ships had more or less become obsolete by the time they were laid down... 70 years ago, let alone today.
They're a pretty expensive thing to operate for a patrol vessel.

Rod
 
Yikes!


Looks like a caused a stir!

You know I just wish we can all get along. I would invite anyone to my table and eat with them.

That always breeds friendship, never war. We can always agree to disagree. We can't always agree to kill each other without more troubles down the road.
 
(quoted from post at 10:44:00 02/07/14) I do know that Iowa was to be maintained in such a way that it could be reactivated if necessary. I can't imagine what situation might really require it to be reactivated tho... The actual purpose of those ships had more or less become obsolete by the time they were laid down... 70 years ago, let alone today.
They're a pretty expensive thing to operate for a patrol vessel.

Rod
Click to expand...

They still have a use Rod, artillery support for shore landings. You have about a 20 mile range from the beachhead, weather doesn't bother it, it doesn't run out of fuel or munitions and have to fly home, it doesn't use million dollar missiles, it's dead accurate and a ton of HE still does the job as far as that goes. Will the day ever come we need that type of thing again? I hope not.
 
(quoted from post at 06:32:01 02/08/14) Yikes!


Looks like a caused a stir!

You know I just wish we can all get along. I would invite anyone to my table and eat with them.

That always breeds friendship, never war. We can always agree to disagree. We can't always agree to kill each other without more troubles down the road.
Click to expand...

Depending in the configuration of payload and barrel length . A 155mm can lob a shell just as far as a 16".
There are smart steerable shells for the 155mm and the 16". JDAMs are strong competition.
As previously stated there are few systems better than cannon floating off shore in support.
 
Part of the reason they have decommissioned certain vessels is because it's no longer cost effective to maintain them. Plus the military is limited in size. Ships like the Forrestal just are no longer vialable with todays standards.

The Battle Ship days are past. Some of the stuff on the battle field today is truly amazing. Laser guided artillery shells and smart bombs, the MLRS system and so on. The new anti tank rockets are really something. Long gone are the LAWS of yesteryear.

As far as the Seabees being disbanded look at mission and capabilities. The Marines are not going to take an island and the Seabees build an airfield. No need for it. Besides you have to have a paved/concrete runway today to keep the jet engines from sucking up dirt and debris. So just what were the Seabees supposed to do? If it gets to the point where both Air Force and Naval air is needed they will share fields. Plus with in flight refueling and loiter times the need for the Seabees is long gone. I'm surprised they kept them as long as they did. Without our getting out of Iraq and trying to draw down in Afghanistan the military is going to get cut back to pre war size (a mistake IMO, we couldn't fight 2 small wars with what we had without multiple National Guard deployments).

Rick
 
Yeah, you can use them for that.... and that's about the only real single practical use they have.... for which you have to maintain a 70 year old hulk of iron, then crew it... to do something a long range bomber or fighter bomber could just as easily do which has a multitude of other uses.
The only reason these large warships exist was because of the naval race that built them... from a time when the Royal Navy's main purpose was as a deterrent, much the same as nuclear missiles are today. Since Britian had a big navy, Germany had to build a big navy... and France... then the US and on it went. Where one had several huge ships, the other had to build a bigger and faster ship with bigger guns. They never much were about their practical application in war... but they did occasionally get used for some semi practical uses.

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 13:33:57 02/08/14) Yeah, you can use them for that.... and that's about the only real single practical use they have.... for which you have to maintain a 70 year old hulk of iron, then crew it... to do something a long range bomber or fighter bomber could just as easily do which has a multitude of other uses.
The only reason these large warships exist was because of the naval race that built them... from a time when the Royal Navy's main purpose was as a deterrent, much the same as nuclear missiles are today. Since Britian had a big navy, Germany had to build a big navy... and France... then the US and on it went. Where one had several huge ships, the other had to build a bigger and faster ship with bigger guns. They never much were about their practical application in war... but they did occasionally get used for some semi practical uses.

Rod
Click to expand...

I seen a show on TV where a 70yr old battle ship saved the world from an alien invasion . Must be true, they had video of it happening.
 
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