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Victory Gardens to help combat poverty?

B

blunosr

Member
Hi, Americans are fantastic at getting behind a national cause that's promoted by the President, and in the best interest of the Nation.

I think America (and Canada too, and most of Europe) needs to get behind a "Victory Garden" campaign to combat poverty and help lift us out of the financial doldrums (depression).

I watched this video recently. I'm not sure if I got the link here, or just stumbled on it. I love this idea! Most people who live in houses have at least some land they could plant. It's good honest work, gets their hands dirty (always a good thing), gets them out in the fresh air, saves money, helps promote healthy diet, etc.

Victory Gardens
http://youtu.be/31hB5d__UT4

I bet it would improve family values and stability as well...

I've been pouring over seed catalogs recently, as I'm sure you guys have been too.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Bye for now,

Troy
 
Didn't watch the video, but if city folks decide to get their hands dirty to grow something in their back yards, it'll likely be funny weed.
 

First of all the words "honest work" kills anything about the whole idea, If it aint free to them city folks whom your talkin about, they don"t want it
 
What makes you think most people would be the least bit interested in growing a garden?Most I know are not including a majority of the farmers I know.I doubt I save much much $$$ by growing a garden and putting up the vegetables for Winter but I do it for better quality vegetables that are grown chemical free.
But if the average homeowner spent 1/2 the time and $$$ growing something useful rather than grass to mindlessly cut and useless bushes and shrubs they could grow a whole lot of food.
 
With all of the silly fighting in Washington D.C. senior leaders from both parties would have to promote it. Otherwise it would turn out to be another fight.

It is true we do not have enough fruits and vegetables to meet the nutritional requirements of everyone in the country. We have to get people off junk food, trouble is it is cheap and requires minimal preparation.
 
How is a Victory Garden going to lift someone out of poverty. If
the by their food it keeps farmers working and they hire
workers the then they sell to stores who sell the food and they
hire workers also there is the hauling and preparation and a
whole lot of jobs to feed the poor. So why can't they get one of
these jobs and move up the line, I did.
Walt
 
How about those folks in Florida who had one in
their front yard for years, and all of a sudden,
new town bylaws, got a ticket, told tear it out or
pay a fine in the thousands per day. Now that just
goes against everything this country is supposed to
stand for. In WWII they would have gotten some kind
of little prize or something.
 
(quoted from post at 18:18:58 02/04/14) Hi, Americans are fantastic at getting behind a national cause that's promoted by the President, and in the best interest of the Nation.

I think America (and Canada too, and most of Europe) needs to get behind a "Victory Garden" campaign to combat poverty and help lift us out of the financial doldrums (depression).

I watched this video recently. I'm not sure if I got the link here, or just stumbled on it. I love this idea! Most people who live in houses have at least some land they could plant. It's good honest work, gets their hands dirty (always a good thing), gets them out in the fresh air, saves money, helps promote healthy diet, etc.

Victory Gardens
http://youtu.be/31hB5d__UT4

I bet it would improve family values and stability as well...

I've been pouring over seed catalogs recently, as I'm sure you guys have been too.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Bye for now,

Troy
Click to expand...

I till gardens for others and see a lot of people that think they have what it takes to grow their own food....only to see a weed patch when I drive by later in the summer. It isn't as easy as it looks, and a lot of people just don't have the ambition it takes to be successful at it. I also sell veggies roadside, and have a lot of smart people for customers :lol: :lol:
 
99% of the people in so called poverty in the western world are in that fix because they are stupid and lazy or because they were unlucky enough to have been born of stupid and lazy parents, not to mention the harm done by the policies of people like the current president and his conterparts in europe and else where. End welfare and end poverty in the western world, it is that simple, who ever can't make it would starve or be shot while stealing and the rest will get with the program.
 
I don't know for sure, but I think some people just like being helpless. That way they can have someone else take care of them.
 
Victory Gardens now called a farm bill. 80% of 950 Billion goes for
food stamps or welfare. I guess the victory is for the people who
are too lazy to work.
 
At current prices for seed, fertilizer and plants, I doubt you save much, if anything.
 
(quoted from post at 21:02:17 02/04/14) At current prices for seed, fertilizer and plants, I doubt you save much, if anything.
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You got that right....local CL ad LOL!

Heirloom Potato starts - $1 (Post Falls)

craigslist - Map data © OpenStreetMap

Grandma's Garden now has heirloom potato starts from the greenhouse. German Butterball potatoes are the Mother lode of nutrition, sweet and wonderful to fry or bake. Well adapted to our northern climate, and easy to grow, disease resistant. Good keepers, store well. 100 days to a bountiful harvest. Free information on soil requirements. 20 plants, $20. Please call Grandma's Garden at 208-777-2631. Will not be responding to emails at this time.
 
True, it is expensive to plant a garden today. But there are few things more rewarding than harvesting fresh produce from your own garden! One year my wife canned 200 quarts of green beans and 200 quarts of tomatoes. Someone asked her why. Her reply, "Well, we had them and I didn't want them to go to waste. Besides, we may not have a good garden next year!" And that is the clincher. If you grow your own, chances are you will be able to reap a little, if not a bounty. If you depend on buying it at the market, it may not be available! Although treated seed is best, I have had success with planting store bought potatoes. one year I found about a dozen shriveled potatoes in a bag that had gotten pushed aside in the cabinet, so I cut them up and planted them, had a very good yield.
A friend and I at work one day were discussing our gardens, and fellow worker chimed in,"Why go to all that trouble when you can get at the farmers market? I stated that if there is a bad season, it may not be available at the market, and my friend finished the sentence for me, "Besides, there ain't nothin' like a home grown tomato!"
 
They tried that here where I live, a few years
ago. A lot of people thought it was a great idea.
Town donated 5 acres to the project, there was
already an Ag. Well on the property so local
Electric Co-Op donated the power for the well &
made all the hookups. Local farmer came &
rototilled the property with his tractor, others
came in and installed water lines with spigots &
Rain-Birds. Everything was Gung-Ho for about 2
months, and you would occasionally see people out
in the field tending their plots. After people
realized that it wasn't as easy as they thought it
would be, the excitement died off. NOW it's just 5
acres of WEEDS.

Doc
 
(quoted from post at 18:18:58 02/04/14) Hi, Americans are fantastic at getting behind a national cause that's promoted by the President, and in the best interest of the Nation.

I think America (and Canada too, and most of Europe) needs to get behind a "Victory Garden" campaign to combat poverty and help lift us out of the financial doldrums (depression).

I watched this video recently. I'm not sure if I got the link here, or just stumbled on it. I love this idea! Most people who live in houses have at least some land they could plant. It's good honest work, gets their hands dirty (always a good thing), gets them out in the fresh air, saves money, helps promote healthy diet, etc.

Victory Gardens
http://youtu.be/31hB5d__UT4

I bet it would improve family values and stability as well...

I've been pouring over seed catalogs recently, as I'm sure you guys have been too.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Bye for now,

Troy
Click to expand...

You are mistaken sir. The WW2 Victory Gardens were put in by people who otherwise couldn't get food, most who'd been brought up with gardens and who had been gardening all their lives, especially in the Depression. All the Victory Garden program did is boost it with information, a little "free" stuff paid for by the taxpayer and make it "cool". Todays people would surely benefit from gardening, no doubt, but they won't do it. Apathy, hard work, disappointment and mostly the surplus of easy to obtain "free" food/food stamps makes it unlikely anyone would even try. As was said, you could supply the land, fit it, plant it for them and supply everything else and they'd still not maintain the garden.

Anyone in actual poverty in the US is there by choice or mental defect. Our biggest problem with our poor is obesity!
 

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the drought in CA. I have been looking for my buddy who has a big vegetable operation, to ask him how is he going to quadruple his output this year. It will be up to the local farmers here and there to make up for the shortfall in vegetables this year. Prices will have to go up so home gardens will be much more worthwhile this year.
 
Diydave,
I hear the President will offer a bill to Congress that "Henceforth and Forevermore, the Son shall rise in the East and set in the West."
How do you feel about that?
 
I till up the wife's garden and help her plant. From then on she
is on her own taking care of her garden. We do get some nice
things out of it but the bugs and groundhog seem to do ok too.
 
I raise about 3X what my wife and I can use but refuse to give it away to healthy capable of working people, relatives included.I've offered to let them come help with the garden work and I cover all the expenses but so far just talkers no takers.Anyway the hogs here eat good and healthy all Summer.
 
The so-called "poor" in the USA would be
considered "rich" in many other nations. With the
endless government programs already in effect -
taking money away from those that have it and/or
earn it - the last thing we need is another
brainstorm from external_link. A guy that never had a
real job in his life. Yeah - I can just see Barry
out there with a hoe. In fact, if such a scence
existed - the rabid libs would call it racism.

Probably the hungriest people in the USA are the
working poor - and not the ones living on
goverment programs.
 
external_link would do that and honestly think he was the one that made the sun rise in the east and set in the west.

As far as I'm concerned, external_link is just a puppet.
 
Granted I live pretty close to a city--not a city like New York where people live in apartments but the suburban cul-de-sac living city. Speaking for what I've seen a big yard is 50 feet X 75 feet. They are not concerned about getting food--it's been plentiful all their lives. They are concerned about being "all natural" and healthy. If they're going to grow a garden they're thinking 8X10. They have no idea how plants spread as they grow. A big topic over the past 5 to 8 years was "square foot gardening" which proposes those 8X10 or 5X8 raised beds divided into square foots and each square foot something else is planted--I honestly haven't looked into it beyond that. Another common thing is planting in 5 gallon buckets--bucket and dirt bought from a big box store. When it comes to planing I've heard many people say they planted 3 or 4 tomato plants in the same bucket/square foot. Popular plants are hot peppers, herbs, and corn. The more obscure the variety of tomato or pepper the better. Once planted they don't expect to do much but pick the crop.

They do appear quite proud of the 3 ears of corn and 7 tomatoes they grew during the year. But, getting food is not a problem for them--they'll go to whole foods and buy all natural, organic food.

All this goes along with the recent trend to keeping 6 chickens in a little raised coop with a fenced in 4X8 patch under it for them to "roam", enjoy the grass etc.

Victory gardens are for rural areas and people who have a farm mindset. Poor folks rent property, but even if they have enough property most lack the knowledge these days to garden. They'd tackle it the same way as I described above.
 
This was tried in a larger city in In. in the early
90's. They put it in the poorest part of the city
where the most shootings take place. First year
about a third got planted, next year 10%, after
that the weeds took over and they pulled the water
meter. Too easy to not work and get taxpayer money!
 
yes Doc - I've seen similar results!

once people learn that you really DO need chemical weed killers, all of their romantic images of a healthy wholesome plot of rich clean compost and big spotless produce gets squashed.

When they realize ripping crabgrass out is a full time job, all of a sudden fast food looks a lot more appealing.

People love the notion of organic healthy food - they just don't like the work involved to get it.
 
Just ordered my seeds yesterday. Got an almond tree and a Jap. walnut tree that didn't take last year. Gotta replace them, too.
We do about a thrid of and acre garden, raise our own beef and pork, kill our own venison and we buy a lamb from my cousin every year. New chicken coop going to be built this year. Be a year or so before our raspberries, blackberries and blue berries really get going. We have apple, pear and plum trees as well. My grandparents would feel right at home. I notice that the local Wal-Mart is carrying larger bags of flour and sugar than they used to. Also have expanded their inventory of canning supplies a lot over the last two or three years. Much more canning, bread making and such going on at home these days.
 
(quoted from post at 08:05:04 02/05/14) yes Doc - I've seen similar results!

once people learn that you really DO need chemical weed killers, all of their romantic images of a healthy wholesome plot of rich clean compost and big spotless produce gets squashed.

When they realize ripping crabgrass out is a full time job, all of a sudden fast food looks a lot more appealing.

People love the notion of organic healthy food - they just don't like the work involved to get it.
Click to expand...

No you don't need chemicals in a veggie garden. But it takes a lot of work. Just like you can plant corn and CULTIVATE it instead of spraying it. It's just easier to spray.

Rick
 
Ok, so I watched the video. If your going to raise produce
so you have your own organic healthy veggies, then the
video proves that if you don't use chemicals, you'll end up
with bug eaten, disease ridden garbage. If that's what you
want to eat then go for it.
If its quantity you want vs quality, you can't hardly justify
the time spent vs spending 20 minutes at the grocery store
If you want to raise your own as a hobby and it gives you
something to do then that's fine but lets not kid anyone.
Leave the real vegetable growing to the pros.
PS. I wonder if the kid doing all the spraying and dusting
died of a cancer?
 
There are lots of vegetable gardens in the cities. Most of the comments here are from people that have never lived there.

The community were we lived outside Detroit had a community garden and everyone could have a plot and hundreds did, year after year. Many were older retirees that enjoyed their plot as a hobby, and a healthy one.

There are lots of lazy freeloading bums..in the city ...and in the country too. And there are lots of people that have a few tomato plants and some greens growing in their back yard. I also know lots of full time farmers that buy all their produce at the store.

Your idea is not a bad one, lots of community gardens are growing in urban areas like Detroit, Pittsburgh, Albany. But that does not match the locked-step viewpoint, so it must be wrong.
 
In most states SNAP (food stamps) cannot be used at restaurants of any type. It cannot be used for the hot chicken in the deli at he grocery store. It can be used for cold fried chicken at the grocery.

A garden is a good idea, it can improve the diet and health of the poor, but it cannot combat poverty because they would still be poor. Before the war on poverty many rural poor had big gardens, but they were still poor.
 

OK...who ratted on me?? Just got a call from a guy wanting us to get involved in a community garden this spring.....
 
(quoted from post at 09:13:07 02/05/14)
(quoted from post at 08:05:04 02/05/14) yes Doc - I've seen similar results!

once people learn that you really DO need chemical weed killers, all of their romantic images of a healthy wholesome plot of rich clean compost and big spotless produce gets squashed.

When they realize ripping crabgrass out is a full time job, all of a sudden fast food looks a lot more appealing.

People love the notion of organic healthy food - they just don't like the work involved to get it.
Click to expand...

No you don't need chemicals in a veggie garden. But it takes a lot of work. Just like you can plant corn and CULTIVATE it instead of spraying it. It's just easier to spray.

Rick
Click to expand...

Beat me to it Rick!
 
(quoted from post at 10:28:21 02/05/14) There are lots of vegetable gardens in the cities. Most of the comments here are from people that have never lived there.

The community were we lived outside Detroit had a community garden and everyone could have a plot and hundreds did, year after year. Many were older retirees that enjoyed their plot as a hobby, and a healthy one.

There are lots of lazy freeloading bums..in the city ...and in the country too. And there are lots of people that have a few tomato plants and some greens growing in their back yard. I also know lots of full time farmers that buy all their produce at the store.

Your idea is not a bad one, lots of community gardens are growing in urban areas like Detroit, Pittsburgh, Albany. But that does not match the locked-step viewpoint, so it must be wrong.
Click to expand...

There are exceptions everywhere Edd. The point is, what percentage of the people, particularly the "poverty class" mentioned in the OP, offered the chance to grow their own by their own effort would actually do it? If you tell me more than 10-15% or less, then I will out and out call you a dreamer. The "poverty class" for the most part means the 50 million people on food stamps or 80 million on disability or, to be more blunt and accurate, the however many million on welfare in it's various forms. The working poor rarely qualify as poverty stricken in most studies I've seen. They often qualify as lower middle class based on gross income, and we all know what the difference between gross and take home is!

You can't compare retirees or sub-urban, "socially and environmentally conscious" soccer moms that take an interest in gardening in the same light as those qualifying as poverty stricken, and that was what the point was in the first place- that welfare mutts would never work to better themselves. Not very PC, but true.
 

Most people now exist in a heat and eat reality.
How many actually cook raw food?
Take the microwaves and fast food establishments away and 1/2 of America would starve.
Stupit spoiled people.
 
I put in a garden every year. Enjoy it. Mother
nature doesn't cooperate most of the time
though.Cheaper to buy veggies at the store. I enjoy
growing things though. Best garden ,in my next of
the woods, is in the fall. Plant it and let it do
it thing....Now back to topic...most are way to
lazy to have a garden...although my Daughter and
Son both do...raised right I think (thanks to their
mother but don't tell her that)
 
(quoted from post at 10:28:21 02/05/14) There are lots of vegetable gardens in the cities. Most of the comments here are from people that have never lived there.

The community were we lived outside Detroit had a community garden and everyone could have a plot and hundreds did, year after year. Many were older retirees that enjoyed their plot as a hobby, and a healthy one.

There are lots of lazy freeloading bums..in the city ...and in the country too. And there are lots of people that have a few tomato plants and some greens growing in their back yard. I also know lots of full time farmers that buy all their produce at the store.

Your idea is not a bad one, lots of community gardens are growing in urban areas like Detroit, Pittsburgh, Albany. But that does not match the locked-step viewpoint, so it must be wrong.
Click to expand...

Edd, I grew up in NJ. The home my parents owned was in a development that had 80 homes. By the time I was 5, 1960, my dad was the only one in the development with a garden. In fact by that time my dad was the only person I knew that had a veggie garden. By the time we moved to farm country in 1971 I knew how to garden and how to put stuff up. It's amazing how many people out here in this rural area have no idea how to do it. People who's families have been in this area for generations. The younger folks for the most part want to enjoy their time off on a jetski or 4 wheeler.

Straw Boss, we don't use chemicals in our garden and we don't have diseased or insect infested produce. So yea you can do it that way without all the chemicals. Only chemicals that every get in our garden is fertilizer as needed. And our produce is good enough that when we have extra we sell it. The wife cans some and freezes some. We have everything we need in veggies until next summer. All out of our unsprayed garden.

Rick
 
Bret, I bet I am as conservative and as frustrated as you. But I am retired so i get a lot of e-mails from my old work cronies citing all the same data you did. They circulate all these e-mails, but none of them have any solutions. I know, "throw the bums off welfare, make them get a job". But I also read your reply to a different post last week saying there were not many jobs out there in your area for young people. Same is true in the cities.

Our government in its wisdom opened up trade, and look what we traded. We traded good factory jobs for cheap tee shirts and video players. I don't have the solutions but firing e-mails back and forth to a bunch of retireees won;t fix it for sure.

PS: I'm also not to thrilled with new conservative representives that resign due to their cocaine habits or indicted governors for shaking down contributors for Rolexes. So much for all the family values speeches.
 
Why bother? Millions just troop down to the SS office and sign up for SNAP. Free food and best of all, You pay for it!!!

What a deal. Is America great or what??

Gene
 
We have the fattest poor people in the world.

On another note, within sight of the Missouri capital building, there is a community garden on the North bank of the Mo. river. They give you a spot for free, but there is a waiting list. From what I have seen they are very productive and well tended. But these are mostly very well off, educated folks doing it.

Gene
 
(quoted from post at 21:28:13 02/05/14) We have the fattest poor people in the world.

On another note, within sight of the Missouri capital building, there is a community garden on the North bank of the Mo. river. They give you a spot for free, but there is a waiting list. From what I have seen they are very productive and well tended. But these are mostly very well off, educated folks doing it.

Gene
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Gene, that's what we see here for the most part. The people who are concerned about their food are generally better educated and make a decent living. Sure we have some poor people here who garden but they grew up doing it so it's 2nd nature. Most of the bums here only want to grow one thing and it ain't food.

Some other poster made a comment that they have offered to let people get stuff from their garden in return for helping in the garden. The 1st time I saw something like that was a guy I was in the Army with. He owned a little place in the country near Ft Knox. He came into work one day (we were all SSG E6 or higher, instructors, 36 of us) and says that he and his wife had picked everything they were going to take from their garden and anyone was welcome to come out and pick what they wanted. Now a lot of the guys I worked with were always complaining about money. Most because they were driving new cars. Not one did anything except tell this guy he should pick the stuff and bring it in. My wife and I were the only ones who went out there.

Sense I retired we have been raising a garden. My one BIL and MIL come and help but another BIL thinks we should just pick stuff and bring it into him. He ask me this year again and I told him, "look you are family. I'm not going to tell you that you can't have any, but if you get some you are going to come out here and at least pick it". Didn't see him till long after the garden was done for the year and he comes out and wants to hunt.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 20:52:47 02/05/14) Bret, I bet I am as conservative and as frustrated as you. But I am retired so i get a lot of e-mails from my old work cronies citing all the same data you did. They circulate all these e-mails, but none of them have any solutions. I know, "throw the bums off welfare, make them get a job". But I also read your reply to a different post last week saying there were not many jobs out there in your area for young people. Same is true in the cities.

Our government in its wisdom opened up trade, and look what we traded. We traded good factory jobs for cheap tee shirts and video players. I don't have the solutions but firing e-mails back and forth to a bunch of retireees won;t fix it for sure.

PS: I'm also not to thrilled with new conservative representives that resign due to their cocaine habits or indicted governors for shaking down contributors for Rolexes. So much for all the family values speeches.
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Edd, I don't have as surefire answer, but offering garden space to the welfare class isn't even a start of an answer. They WON'T do it. And the working poor won't either because they either don't have time, can't swing the gas to get there or whatever. Yeah, there might be 5-10% that would take a shot at it. Of that maybe 10% would fall in love with gardening. So maybe 1%, or not even that much would make use of a program that would cost the taxpayer how much to fund?

The answer? Make life a little less comfortable for those able to work, trim some of the bennies, start checking out the fraud. 1 Welfare Fraud Investigator can handle a lot of cases over the year, more than earning his salary. Same with Disability, Just saw a news blurb where they discovered an Ironman athlete was collecting disability. The hardest part with all this is that there ARE people out there that truly need help. NY, my home state, is a fine example of the upside down nature of the social welfare game- we are the highest taxed state int he nation, the least business friendly, one of the highest numbers of people leaving for some place else. Why? Taxes to support the social programs, taxes to support the workers needed to support the social programs, taxes needed to support the buildings and equipment to support all that, taxes to support the police that have to deal with the results of decades of a "don't work if you don't feel like it" policy, taxes to support the prisons that house the results of those policies. The State puts the burden on the counties and then points to the counties for having the taxes so high. What business in their right mind would willingly locate here? Not a one. So we get a shrinking tax base to support an increasing welfare load. It's a no win situation for us. Until we cut taxes, nothing will change. And I mean REAL tax cuts, not having the state move yet another program onto the backs of the counties to pay.

So that's where I'd start Edd. If people on welfare, and I point to them more than those on Food Stamps because a lot of working poor are on FS, living in their paid for housing, with their paid for heat, water, TV, etc. can't feed their kids, then force them to take training to learn how to feed their kids and how to cook basic foods from scratch. Maybe if Wanda Welfare had to actually cook to feed herself she'd push her bum husband/boyfriend into a job. Force them to work in gardens, force them to do something for their check. Make it so they can't sue and what not for a broken finger nail or sore muscles. They're like spoiled kids and all the taxpayers are is permissive, enabling parents. If you're stupid and lazy, why are we feeding you? Start cutting costs there, slowly the social services can start cutting their costs and taxes can drop and maybe business can be drawn here.

It's the only possible answer I see. It will never, ever happen.
 
Bret said: "It's the only possible answer I see. It will never, ever happen."

Well Bret, I agree with everything you have said, and I have come to the same conclusion.

That is why I have quit spitting into the wind and started spending my talk time with friends and politicians on things we can do that might help reduce the percentage of the population on welfare.

My list:

Have trade policies that bring back those little factories in small towns that even with low wages provided a decent living to the small town folks. Lets punish trade partners like Korea that sell here but close their markets to us.Examples
Japan tax on American USA rice 770%, Korea tax on American cars 76%,

Teach trades in our high schools and figure out how to impart some skills to the 20 to 30% high school dropouts who are destined to be unemployed for the rest of their lives.

Get realistic about drugs. What we are doing is not working. Millions in jail, just as many addicts, and pushers as ever. Not sure what to do, but if charging the battery does not start the tractor, then eventually you need to try something else.

We say we want people to get up, go to work, learn a skill and be productive. Well guess what, we have 11 million people that do that every day, and we want them to go back to Mexico. Are we nuts? These people have the very old fashioned work ethic we so desperately need. Lets give them a work permit, make them pay taxes, track them carefully, and let them contibute to the country with work and taxes. No need to make them citizens, they did not come here to be a citizen, only to work, so let them.

Last: Shun and ostricize unwed mothers...even if it is your daughter or grandaughter or a member of your church. Unwed mothers is the root and production of the welfare system. We need every tool in the kit to stop that trend, birth control, abortion, shunning, ostracism....whatever.

Bret, that is just a start to my list. Things we can do beyond complaining, ranting and bittcchhing. Edd
 
(quoted from post at 08:03:15 02/06/14) Bret said: "It's the only possible answer I see. It will never, ever happen."

Well Bret, I agree with everything you have said, and I have come to the same conclusion.

That is why I have quit spitting into the wind and started spending my talk time with friends and politicians on things we can do that might help reduce the percentage of the population on welfare.

My list:

Have trade policies that bring back those little factories in small towns that even with low wages provided a decent living to the small town folks. Lets punish trade partners like Korea that sell here but close their markets to us.Examples
Japan tax on American USA rice 770%, Korea tax on American cars 76%,

Teach trades in our high schools and figure out how to impart some skills to the 20 to 30% high school dropouts who are destined to be unemployed for the rest of their lives.

Get realistic about drugs. What we are doing is not working. Millions in jail, just as many addicts, and pushers as ever. Not sure what to do, but if charging the battery does not start the tractor, then eventually you need to try something else.

We say we want people to get up, go to work, learn a skill and be productive. Well guess what, we have 11 million people that do that every day, and we want them to go back to Mexico. Are we nuts? These people have the very old fashioned work ethic we so desperately need. Lets give them a work permit, make them pay taxes, track them carefully, and let them contibute to the country with work and taxes. No need to make them citizens, they did not come here to be a citizen, only to work, so let them.

Last: Shun and ostricize unwed mothers...even if it is your daughter or grandaughter or a member of your church. Unwed mothers is the root and production of the welfare system. We need every tool in the kit to stop that trend, birth control, abortion, shunning, ostracism....whatever.

Bret, that is just a start to my list. Things we can do beyond complaining, ranting and @#%$&((). Edd
Click to expand...

Not a bad list Edd, but the little factories aren't going to come back if the taxes and regulation are too high. That's why Korea, India and China lead. We can establish trade policies that make US goods competitive, but who can afford to buy $45.00 jeans as opposed to $10.00 jeans for instance? You could add in price controls but that brings in a whole new set of problems. Same for cars, there are NO American made cars or light trucks anymore. We'd need new factories, or at least massive re-fits of closed factories, to make all the parts now made overseas...and where do the raw materials come from? It would all take massive amounts of capital that industry isn't going to invest if they aren't assured of good profits for a lot of years. That's a problem gov't created and won't fix.

Drugs- bad subject for me. I say give them 3 chances at rehab and then either put them in labor camps or deport them. And I have a drug addict son, so it hits close to home.

I don't have a problem with an effective work visa program. I do have a problem with granting citizenship or otherwise rewarding criminals illegally here and those that knowingly employ them. Build the fences, build the walls, round up the illegals and send them home, let them get a visa if they want to work here.

As far as the social end of things, I think there's only one answer and I don't like it much. Sort of the same as you think, a nation wide propaganda campaign that stresses good moral and ethical values. It can be secular or not, I don't care. Get rid of the porn, the drug glorification, the video games that support the wrong ideas, the movies that glorify the garbage. I don't like the idea of having to do that, but we've had 50 years of "If it feels good do it!" and of the gov't supporting and growing a welfare class. Time to end it.

And again, it will never happen.

BTW- I see no need to use masked foul language here. I get the message just fine without it.
 
Huh , what? Work and get dirty when the government gives
me food for free?
It was a different era three generations and 70 years ago.
Most folk were rural or still had parents or Grand Parents on
the farm.
The TV show Green Acres was cancelled in 1971 because
market surveys showed most Americans couldn"t relate to
farming.
It"s been a while since 1971 and people haven"t learned
more about food production. Other than being told about
animal cruelty, agri chemicals and GMO.
 

Problem is family values are long gone.....and far too easy to have 3 or 4 kids with different men and have YOU and I pay for it while the baby daddies are 1)in jail or 2) living off YOU and I

Besides, who needs gardens? Everyone knows food comes from a store!

Generally, most people who aren't working because they don't WANT TO, so getting hands dirty isn't going to
"work"
 
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