BTO Arrived Down the Road Today

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
Well my new local BTO (huge farmer) arrived in the neighborhood today. Neighbor family quit farming full-time, technically doing 100 acres next yr. I hear. Rented 900 acres to the biggest operation from the next county over. These guys farm 5000+, got $90,000+ in government subsidies last year. I bet if you asked them they'll give you an ear full about taxes too high. Which of course I agree, but I don't cash a $90,000 USDA check either. Don't want to get off topic, I know the direct payment is going away. Showed up with a grinder on an excavator to clear a tree row, seems like overkill. I'll stick with my 4 row planter and enjoy a good conversation with my other neighbor when he passes me with his 6 row. Lots of guys making a good living off 400(with livestock) to 1000 acres around here. Why go with the 5,000 acre BTO? Maybe $3.75 corn will get us back to reality? I can't for the life of me understand how it ever got to this...
 
I wonder why your neighbor is quitting? The trouble I see is for all the gains we see due to efficiency we really do not know what to do with the displaced people. The talking heads were on PBS Friday evening talking about growth of the GNP and from what I see it must all be through the inflated value of goods and services. The area I live in stopped growing 30 years ago and would be declining at a much faster rate if it were not for a few businesses picking up favorable incentives through the government. I guess we will see pot be legalized in more states as it will act as a pacifier for some people.
I guess my best hope is land values level out that when I need to increase in size I can hope to do so. There is very little land for rent and most of what is available is poor quality. Despite my limited resources I need to get a serious hay business going instead of a dinky 10 to 15 acres.
 
I can't say I know a lot about this, but there are 2 larger operations in this area and looking at whats posted its over 1M each. Last year was not the best rain, did a number on the crop, so did the darned geese. Each operation still shows humility if thats a good term to use, they don't have or go for brand new equipment across the board, both seem to do maintenance at a high level, given each of the shops they have, they seem to be conservative, like most farms here, buy what they need when it makes sense, both have been in business since well before me. North of here there is an even larger operation, they have been growing, have more modern equipment, but still suited for what is needed, they have been in business a long time too. This one was approaching 2000 head, might be more now, or close to that number, they put up 2 huge new barns, and buy from many other local farmers as well as what they do themselves, unimaginable to me something that size. I suppose any of them if were run by someone foolish could go down quick, but looking back, all of these farms have maintained some kind of stability for a long time, and there is no doubt its more marginal profit than not, you do have to wonder how they do it. I for one don't think I'd want to be in their shoes, given the size, risk and scope of what they do. Scale it down to what our long time neighbor and farmer did, always under 1000 acres, but over 500 if I recall correctly, he made a paycheck with it, always had something to fill the calendar to keep cash flow most of the year, even at that level, with the dairy gone, just crops, it was a fair amount of work, and border line of you being better off keeping a day job, and doing this work off hours. He was on the list too, but a lot less, and only had what was needed, and only in recent times used upgraded to some new equipment, likely because of reliability, down time would really hurt the bottom line, when things need to be done, they need to be done, narrow window to work in from what I saw. Its crazy to think how this all calculates out in any given year and that the smaller guys can still stay in it, given how things have changed, I'm just an observer, so my thoughts may just be entirely irrelevant, but it does interest me, I like farming and related work, as well as the financial side of it, how that works, changes over time etc.
 
I said the same thing when the guy down the road got a 4 row, now the 4 row guys are working in town and the 8 row guys are farming. Grandpa said the same thing when a neighbor sold his horses and got a tractor. He said that $07 coal oil was going to eat him up!
 
I guess I am going to stay in Ireland where 250 acres is counted a BTO! And we all manage to live very comfortably! Then come to think of it so do the people that do no work at all???????
...........Sam
 
Is it really any surprise? The land grant colleges have been preaching that "bigger is better" for at least 60 years. I am involved in the service side of the dairy business. It is only a matter of time before there will be 3 types of dairy farms around here, Amish, Mennonite and HUGE!
 
Around here it is already that way except the huge guys are the furthest away and the others are closer and are in numbers. The huge guys are typically on the best soils for the area and the others are just subsistence farmers who for the most part brought a lot of equity with them. Small crop guys like me are getting to be a rarity.
 
Its a farmer eats farmer world and has been for a long time,the Gov't farm welfare programs are set up to help the Big Operators while throwing a bone or two to the small time guys to keep them quiet until their day comes to be the prey.Dealing with the Devil never ends well.
 
I hope its not like our BTO.... They block the county roads with 4 or more semi s at harvest time. Run over property line markers and will even cut across ur field to get to theirs. I myself have made several calls to the local sheriff about them. One time they had 1 lane of a state highway blocked with 4 trucks waiting on the grain cart. I called the sheriff office and they sent a deputy out. All he done was set behind them with his lights on. well a call to the state police and a half hour later everybody had to move off the road... even the deputy!!! LOL
 
If the BTO is making all of his money on farming alone what's wrong with it? The big GVT payment doesn't impress or surprise me. The BTO has bigger debts to pay. I don't know what his balance sheet looks like, but if he is a real honest to god true farmer who's sole income is from the land he farms he isn't sitting any better financially than the smaller farmer, maybe worse. He has more landlords to deal with than I do and he certainly has to get on his knees in front of the banker's desk more than I do, in fact, with today's commodity prices, he probably needs knee pads!

The BTO's that bother me are the ones who are subsidized by off farm money, enabling them to out bid the true farmers for land. Jim
 
No Loren, he has to say it like this HEEEEWWWWW.....JJJJAH, its a long enunciation with a "huge" emphasis on the JA part LOL !!! No copyright infringement its different, he's in the clear LOL! I hate to say it, but it says Fucillo on my license plate surround, just can't escape the guy. Got a former chevy rental car with low miles from them in'10.

You remember by chance the long time Dodge, dealer in Troy, Goewey ? " What at guy" ? I did know the old man, we talked about the creation and effectiveness of this advertising jingle, they really do work when its a good one.
 
Progress, I Guess I really don't understand What has Got the Bur under you Saddle! All I hear from your Post is the guy who rented the place next to you, from the current owners who recently stopped Farming Runs bigger and wider equipment than your. And Gets Gov, Pmts.
Are you Pi$$ed because the neighbor rented it to Them instead of You???? You are Twisted about the Gov Pmts. That IS NONE OF YOUR BIZ!, What He Get in Gov PMTS! You Sound like a Whiny Lib.... Demo....! As long as what He Does Across the Fence PLEASES the Land Owner IT is NONE-Of_Your-BIZ! Here in Texas Accessibility to property, fields, fence lines for maintence is Always a Good thing. Getting rid of useless trees and brush is good allows more grass to grow for cows to graze, allows equipment, harvest machines to be moved more easily in between fields , and easy access to fences so maintence can be preformed and cattle and other livestock stay where they are put!
You Seem to me to be twisted because he is bigger runs larger Equipment.......
But Remember with larger Toys requires larger pmts to the Bank, more sleepless nights than you probably.
Sound like he is trying to improve the place. Buy you time a yr or two. If he doesn't take care of your neighbors place, get sloppy Go talk to the owner and make your case that You can do a better job of taking care of it that the current Lessor.
My observation!
Later,
John A.
 
I'm not sure what your complaint is. Are you upset because your neighbor rented to the BTO and not to you? I'll bet the BTO offered him a nice fat cash rent and no headaches. If you'd made the same offer first, you'd be renting the property instead.
 
You must have missed the point. I don't want to rent the ground myself, but I would much rather see some of the other smaller young farmers trying to go full time in the area get it. I'm no revolutionary, but I know the system is broke when guys farm half of one county and are paying huge to get 1000 acre farms in the next county. When I'm older my ground will go to a small young guy trying to get started, and we'll work a deal out that he can make money with...
 
Re-read the post. I have no interest in the property. I think its unfortunate that farming has gotten to this point. Plenty of young guys in this neighborhood that are trying to make it. Sad it ever got this way. Plenty of guys around here with 400 to 1000 acres desperate to expand a little.
 
Missed the point. I don't have any interest in the property but younger guys around that need it. Shame it ever got this big, also my fence rows are some of the cleanest in the county.
 
Crying because the system is broke. I could care less about renting the ground. I care that farming has gotten this messed up. Guys around here making a good living on 400 to 1000 acres, this type of stuff will be the end of that in a generation.
 
I guess nothing wrong with it legally. Very sad from a human perspective that farming has gone this way. There will probably be more meth labs in most Midwestern counties than farmers soon. Can you imagine that? But at the same time lots of young guys running their Grandpa's old farm that could have used the chance to get ahead.
 
(quoted from post at 17:22:33 02/03/14) Bob,You can't use the word HUGE. Billy Fuccillo's auto empire has coined that term. LOL
Loren, the Acg.

ACG,You left the accent mark off after the E
 
Most BTO's here have outside money and a lot of it! But that does not bother me all that much. What does bother me is a number of the BTO's here are crooks plain and simple. I am hoping the Fed's are watching these guys and it will not be pretty when the yellow crime scene tape goes up.
 
I hate to say it but the commodity boom has bought some smaller guys some time to remain farmers. Prices going down and margins tightening will probably force a lot of guys out and the retailers in town do not have enough jobs to absorb everyone. I agree this is not good socially and the effects will be seen sooner rather than later. This is not 1970 with a good job waiting in town that a person can build a life of off.
 
I would think that most of the really BTO would have at least a couple LLCs to shield them from any threat to their personal $$$$,its the bankers and others they deal with that need to worry whether they realize it or not.
We used to deal with a building contractor that had around 15 different companies that one company
leased the equipment to another until the company that actually did the building had little or no assets that way when they got in a jam on a job they'd just bankrupt the one company with no assets and never miss a beat.And its all legal as you can bet these guys have some good lawyers working for them.
 
Be honest if you were renting a place you owned wouldn't you rent to the person or outfit that would pay you the most $$$? Its alot easier to critize the other landowner for not renting to some young fellow for less when its not your $$$
at stake.
 
Welcome to the second age of the Robber Baron, boys.

All you have to do to become one is figure out how to manipulate the system to your advantage. Eventually you'll build yourself up to "critical mass" where you'll have so much wealth that buying out the competition is chump change.

There's no "let" in this game. It's dog eat dog, kill or be killed. You can't let ANYONE get a foothold, no matter how small. Ethics and morals can't get in the way. There is no such thing as "enough."

If people could act morally, ethically, and graciously. If people could say "I have enough money. I have a big enough piece of the pie. I don't want to get any bigger," none of this would be a problem.

Unfortunately, there is this attitude that if you're not growing, you're failing.

I guess we can count ourselves fortunate, because it could be a LOT worse. It's actually a good thing we have as many evilly greedy people as we do, slugging it out and creating a stalemate. What if there were only ONE?
 
This is my number one belief in life. I have plenty of money now and don't need to be farming. My real goal at the end would be to teach a young guy to follow in my footsteps, doesn't have to be family, maybe just a trusted young guy who helps me. I believe much more in cultivating the future of farming than caring about the cash. My lasting legacy/goal is to build a respectable operation and have it carry on, not just become more empty acres to run a 24 row planter over.
 
Doesn't seem to be changing much. Direct payments are out, but subsidized insurance is in. Is the any other industry that the taxpayer's guarantee revenue?
 
Progress? Actually, I see what you are trying to say. It is a shame that morals have gone out the window with some of the BTO's. I know when my Dad was diagnosed with Cancer, it was just 2 days before one of the BTO's here was sitting in front of one of my Dad's landowners showing her pictures of his giant farm and new eqt. Keep in mind this was 2 days after the news of the Cancer came out.
Now to be honest, although I don't think morally it was the thing to do, I know for probable certain that if he wouldn't have been there, someone else would have. Doesn't make it right, but that is business. Good morals have trouble surviving any more, and that is directly related to the greed of the landowner, which in reality is exactly what the landowner should do.
The trouble is, farming is a business. If you don't treat it as such, you won't last.
As are you, I hate to see it this way, but that is the way, as a nation we have let ourselves become. Bob
 
I hate to hear that. It must be devastating to the opportunities for your area. I would never have even known a thing about farming other than learning from a family friend when I was younger. You can bet 15,000 acre farmers don't have 15 high school boys they're willing to teach and trust to plant beans and haul grain.
 
(quoted from post at 07:52:27 02/04/14) Doesn't seem to be changing much. Direct payments are out, but subsidized insurance is in. Is the any other industry that the taxpayer's guarantee revenue?

Is there any other industry that, if it fails, would cause the collapse of society quicker than agriculture?

No money means no food. Hungry people riot. Then we get to find out what all those 9mm rounds were purchased for.
 
If you 'have plenty of money now' you're probably in the minority as far as landowners are concerned not anything wrong with what you're doing but there are plenty of landowners that need every cent they can get.I wish it wasn't like it is but for right now its the financial reality.
 
I hate to break this to you... but the number one concern in seeing any operation carry on is that it comes from a strong financial situation. The ones that have that and accept the reality of the times carry on. The ones that don't have their finances in order don't carry...
Some people starting out mabey need to realise that a few years in the oil patch to make some money would do them a world of good in getting set up rather than trying to rent land for nothing and wondering why someone else can pay more than them.

Rod
 
This is the internet. You can't expect people to actually read what you wrote before they attack you for what they think you said.
 
Problem is its a broke system. There is very little if any opportunity to get in. No matter what the big guy will always spread it thinner and pay more rent. I guess what I'm saying isn't that the young part-time guys would neccesarily pay a lot less. What I'm saying is I'd figure what I think is fair, and that a guy could still make money farming the ground. I'd give the neighborhood young guys first shot.
 
No, you said nothing in your original post about how you thought the landowner should rent to young farmers. But I'll extend the same advice to them: If you want to rent land, you need to be just as aggressive as the BTOs. Most owners will rent to the first party who makes a reasonable offer, and if they get multiple offers, well they're likely to pick the best one.

Let me tell you a little story. Many years ago my mother sold a piece of land to my cousin, who was then a young farmer trying to get established. She felt he deserved a break, and wanted to see the land stay in the family. Two years later, my cousin quit farming and sold the land to a large operator, probably at a profit. Now I don't hold any ill will towards my cousin; the land was his to sell. But it did make me much more pragmatic about the merits of selling/renting to family or friends.
 
(quoted from post at 09:49:07 02/04/14) This is my number one belief in life. [b:89b2fdc80c][i:89b2fdc80c]I have plenty of money now and don't need to be farming.[/b:89b2fdc80c][/i:89b2fdc80c] My real goal at the end would be to teach a young guy to follow in my footsteps, doesn't have to be family, maybe just a trusted young guy who helps me. I believe much more in cultivating the future of farming than caring about the cash. My lasting legacy/goal is to build a respectable operation and have it carry on, not just become more empty acres to run a 24 row planter over.

Well I for one and looking forward to your posts this spring, specifically one how you pick what neighbor kid gets to take over your operation. See, if you have enough money and your belief is that some of the younger people should be given a shot so they can pick up enough acres to make a go of things, then it stands to reason that you will in fact be setting up one of those kids this year.... unless of course, you are just a greedy abundant. Greedy because you want to keep farming dispite having plenty of money and you would be a abundant because they love, Love, LOVE to spend money by reaching into somebody elses pocket (you want the BTO to lose money so a kid can get a start).

Im looking forward to this...
 
What an odd response. I'm no where near retirement. Didn't say anything about quiting. I'm not overly wealthy by any means. You're making some extreme assumptions with absolutely no knowledge of my life. I also said I had a 4 row planter. Do you know a lot of really rich farmers running 4 row equipment? I live in an area with a lot of "half-time" farmers. Didn't realize when I initially posted that I needed to include my biography. Point is I pull for the neighborhood smaller guys over the BTO from 30 miles away... Thats how life goes, do you cheer for your kids school or the next county high school over? Its not my ground, and I respect everyone's right with their own ground. My main problem was with guys coming 25 miles away that are that aggressive. The point is that its sad that it ever got this big.
 
Not the conservative BTO with the 90k FSA payment? Liking to see young guys succeed at running their own operations? You guys twisted this to say the young guys were going to pay a lot less. I just said I'd rent for a fair price and give local younger guys first consideration.
 
I wish I had 400-500 acres of nice laying ground I could plant.

I live in the hills.

I can't even pull a 12 row planter around here. If I could, I would. It's a lot better for the corn, because you can go slower and get it planted more evenly, without taking forever to do it. I drive 3mph planting corn. It takes forever.


There is one BTO south of me. Just one... I'm sure most of you guys have seen his son on RFD-TV on the NTPA show. Jordan Lustik, in the silver bullet. I think they do 2000+ acres, and use a 16 row planter, Case IH quadtrac, super77 gleaner. It's hard to say for sure what they do. I've heard all kinds of stories. I can't figure out how he gets his equipment into some of those farms.
 
(quoted from post at 21:39:39 02/04/14) What an odd response. I'm no where near retirement. Didn't say anything about quiting. I'm not overly wealthy by any means. You're making some extreme assumptions with absolutely no knowledge of my life. I also said I had a 4 row planter. Do you know a lot of really rich farmers running 4 row equipment? I live in an area with a lot of "half-time" farmers. Didn't realize when I initially posted that I needed to include my biography. Point is I pull for the neighborhood smaller guys over the BTO from 30 miles away... Thats how life goes, do you cheer for your kids school or the next county high school over? Its not my ground, and I respect everyone's right with their own ground. My main problem was with guys coming 25 miles away that are that aggressive. The point is that its sad that it ever got this big.

Its not an odd responce at all, it was YOU after all that stated "I have plenty of money now and dont need to be farming". You also had a problem with a BTO wanting to lose money by not picking up ground, you stated that you thought it should have been available to a young farmer that needed the ground to get going. The only logical conclusion a person could gather from YOUR statements is, that you are going to turn over your ground for a younger farmer to get the head start that you were talking about.

Im not sure how you could have been any more clear. Now, please tell us about this youngster that will be planting your place this spring. Do they have ground now? How did you decide on this person, friend of the family or did you pick them from FFA? Come on, we would like to know more.
 
Following the coming economic crash, we will all be working 10 to 20 acres again, with vast acreages of lesser land growing up in thorns and thistles. Our crops won't be to sell. They will be to survive!
 
I'll be planting it myself thank you very much. I'm no big farmer by any means and you're twisting it 180 degrees. I assume the WI in your name is from Wisconsin? Where's the common sense cattle farmer in you? Have you ever hired a neighbor boy or family friends son and forged a long term friendship and recognized potential? When I quit I know my farm won't get consolidated into a huge operation. You act like I'm communist for the desire to maintain my farms unique identity even if it takes a little extra patience on my part? Apparently thats a crime? Remember theres nothing more capitalist and conservative than a bunch of 400 to 1000 acre farmers running their own individual businesses. Consolidate (8) 600 acre guys into (1) 4800 acre guy and you just lost 7 midwestern small business owners. Anyways I don't know why I'm wasting my time having this conversation with you since you'll twist it around... But I'll tell you what, maybe I'll let you come farm it this year so you can see what its like to run a small business. Post your contact info and 3 references. Hopefully you can farm better than you reason.
 

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