O/T Questions; Wills For Estates

What happens to a person's estate and belongings when a person has no will or trust and this person passes away?

Has anyone been related to someone where this has occurred and what was the outcome?

Does a lawyer get involved and get most of it?

I'm just curious...

Each state has laws that cover the situation and they vary. Your best bet would be to find an experienced and competent practitioner in your area.

Depends on the laws of that particular state - and how good the family gets along.

My Dad died without a will; laws in that state provided that 1/2 of the property go to the spouse and 1/2 to the children. To preserve the estate with enough for Mom to live on, I suggested to the attorney that each of us kids (All of 5 of us were over 21) renounce our shares so Mom could inherit all the property. The attorney was surprised that I suggested that but did the paperwork and got the estate probated that way without any trouble from anyone.

Mom later sold the land to my youngest brother after he took over the farm and did a great job of it.

The rules don't vary as much, state to state, as in some other areas of the law. Short answer is that the states have a hierarchy of who gets the estate if someone dies "intestate" (that is, without a Will). I think most give everything to spouse; but if no spouse living, then to decedent's children; if no living children, then to decedent's parents; if no living parents, to decedent's brothers and sisters; and so on.

The myth that the state just gloms on to everything is just that- a myth. That process (called "escheat") only occurs if NO living relatives can be found.

While we're on myths, another is that if you get divorced and forget to change your will, your ex will get whatever he would have taken under the will. Not true- an ex-spouse is treated as if they pre-deceased the decedent, and everything passes on to the others mentioned in the will.

John,

Your question "Does a lawyer get involved and get most of it?" is what can happen if you do NOT have a will.

I"ve been thru several instances of deaths in my family and if you want to see mud slinging among relatives...and lifetime hatreds...then just do no planning at all.

I am not a lawyer nor related to one. And there might be some shouters and screamers here that will want to argue, but living and dying is not simple anymore.

Yes, lawyers will charge you a high fee, but ask the lawyer up front what they charge and what can they do for you. But then you have the satisfaction of setting up details properly and as you want them to be.

This reminds me of "If you want high quality oats you must be prepared to pay the price for high quality oats. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have first been thru a horse, those oats do come at a much lower price".

Come now, do you ask a lawyer to fix your tractors? If not, then why ask tractor experts (and many here are experts) about estates?

LA in WI

Along with all of the comments above, there is a high chance of unpleasant surprises. A lawyer will probably have to be involved in all but the simplest cases. In addition to the state mandated distribution of property to the usual heirs (spouse and/or children), remember than if there are any step brothers or sisters involved, they get a share too. If they are dead, then their heirs come into the picture. It gets really messy, and of course the laws are different in each state. If property is owned in other states, then you probably end up hiring a lawyer in each state to sort it out. A little money spent on a will now will save a lot of money, time, and trouble later.

MIKE(WA) hit it exactly as to intestate succession. Only once in 35 years have I known an individual to die without leaving any locateable heirs. The lawyer you choose should be by reference through family or friends. Your fee agreement in most states must be in writing. stating the flat rate, if applicable, or the hourly rate. Don't be afraid to ask for an estimate of the cost of the entire probate.

dont forget power of attorney if you become incapacited .neighbor next to me wanted his farm to stay in family got sick in coma big time operator got judge in room declared him incapacitated and appointed a court gaurdian who then sold farm to big time opeator.
i spent 800 this summer got rent papers will and power of attorney both health and financal done so if i get hurt and cant make choices that person can step in . i do not want to be hooked up to a machine and left when its my time to go i want to go . im very lucky i know a nurse thats not afraid of anybody and she knows how i feel

I agree with co counsel Mike.

FIRST "A living person has no heirs"

A decedents "heirs" are those persons as determined by the laws of intestate succession in your particular state.

Therefore the estate of an intestate decedent in Indiana at least might pass say 1/2 to his spouse
and the other 1/2 to his issue,,,,,,,, perhaps say if no surviving spouse then in equal shares to his surviving issue,,,,,,,,,,,if no surviving issue then you may eventually get to parents, siblings etc etc down the line.

The "estate" is ONLY that property which does not pass otherwise by operation of law such as joint tenancy or entirety or other forms of joint ownership with rights of survivorship or such things as Transfer on Death (TOD) or Pay on Death (POD) accounts or instruments carrying a beneficiary designation. A person could be a multi millionaire with primarily non probate transfers occurring upon his death and a small or no appreciable remaining "estate" to administer. A Trust is only ONE method/tool to avoid probate, sometimes best sometimes NOT, it depends on the situation.

If there's no will a competent bona fide interested party can petition the Court for appointment as the Personal Representative (Executor, Administrator). If there is a Will the testator usually designates his or her PR.

ONLY if there are no heirs or claimants might an estate pass to the state via escheat and thats rare.

I cant speak for others, Ive been the Attorney for several estates and Ive NEVER got MOST OF IT LOL perhaps 1 to 5 %

Also, I done estate planning for several clients AND NO TWO ARE EVER ALIKE. Just because a Trust is best for Billy Bob, a Will may be better for Bubba. Consult a trained professional Estate Attorney, NOT Billy Bob or Bubba as your plan should suit YOU NOT what was best for someone else down the road or lay or even professionals on a tractor forum until the entire situation is reviewed and your needs are satisfied and local laws researched.


Best wishes

John T Country Lawyer

I did an auction once that was in that situation. The Funeral director in our town passed away and had an uncle in Pa. and an aunt in Florida. His attorney knew this and they ran an add in our local paper trying to locate them (ya a lot of good that did), The judge appointed one of his friends as the administrator (an attorney) for the estate., and appointed another of his friends as the attorney for the estate (the same one that was the attorney for the director in the first place. They sold the real estate and I did a 2 day auction that was in excess of $200,000.00. He also had his brothers estate proceeds that I had just done an auction for worth well over $100,000.00. About a year later there was a piece in the paper stating that the heirs could not be located and the estate was settled and bills paid out of it. The man was a good friend of mine and he owed no one, so the only bills owed were the attorneys. They got 100% of the estate. It's sure good to take care of your friends. LOL. Just my thoughts, Keith

WHY do lawyers get a % instead of a flat fee?? When my grandmother died, two of my uncles got bids for settling her estate. They got a larger bill on the close from the one they chose. The lawyer comment was, "she had more money in the savings and loan than I thought she had." I have a lot more simular stories.

goes to next of kin basically 50% for spouse 50% for kids if none closest next of kin just goes on down the line

Everyone has a will. Trouble is, if he didn"t write it, the State has one.

With wills and estates, it usually doesn't matter if you have all the t's crossed and i's dotted. You will still more mud slinging than you ever wanted.