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Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
If a home is heated with coal, does it pollute any more or less than fuel oil heat. Anyone can say that N gas is cleaner, but how about all the houses using home heating oil? If it is even close we should heat with coal to use energy that is on our shores and puts americans back to work. I want to start using coal. The problem is I have to drive over an hour to buy bagged coal wich is very high priced. If more people would switch over the price would come down. How long before americans say Fu$%^ the rag heads and buy energy from the us?
many of the mines were closed, companies gone. some have laid off/ idled workers hoping that orders from other countries will pick up at some point. Sad to say, power companies have spent billions of dollars in last decade to add high tech scrubbers to clean output. now just looks like wispher of steam coming out- but O said in 2008 if he was elected he would stop fossil fuel use, asked if he would ban; no- but regulations would get so expensive they would switch on their own. unfortunately the "alternatives" are more expensive and avg or lower middle class will feel that in what they have disposable income left to use, for tractors OF COURSE!
The mines are gone, yes they could reopen but coal is dead till the next presidential election or people realize the price of electricity has gone up 4 times. There are four coal fired power plants within 100 miles of me that are closed.
The gov has demanded wind farms, and then fines the windmills owners when the blades kill Eagles.
The gov has demanded wind farms, and then fines the windmills owners when the blades kill Eagles.
With all the technology that has come along in the last 50 years you would think they would be able to find a way to make coal burn cleaner, and find a way to use nuclear waste. Did they ever burn coal in the old steamers or was that mostly wood? My brother did buy a bag of coal several years ago for forging the parts we were making. Dont know what he paid for it.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Coal have been burned cleaner than NG for two decades and cheaper too.
Nuclear 'waste" is a broad term. There is Thorium which is left over from raw uranium extraction which is too light to fission by it's self but absorbs a neutron and become U233 which is a excellent fuel.
Used fuel form a PWR can be used in a PHWR without re-enrichment.
Used fuel from a PWHR contains approx 1% plutonium which can be extracted and burned as fuel.
A PHWR isn't too fussy and will run on and even breed more fuel on a fuel load that a PWR would choke on.
Of course just about anything from Thorium on up, used or fresh can be fuel in a sodium cooled reactor. Some real advantages with a SCR. It's not a technical problem. It's money and political will.
Hydrogen fusion of tritium or deuterium has it's attractions. Unfortunately fission compared to a PHWR reactor. Is like comparing a jet engine to a windmill.
the tractor vet
Well-known Member
Well i know Consol is gone from Cadiz Ohio .and i know that the big stripping shovels either have been scraped or shipped out of country . There are just a hand full of the old coal companys still mining and most are deep mines . 99% of us old coal haulers are out . At one time this county i live in was knowen as the owner operator capital as we had more owner operators per capita . We had the coal buckets we had steel haulers and we had the guys that pulled refers . About ten miles sout of me is where the strip mines were and on south . At night if you were up in a plane you could see all the drag lines working for miles . The coal hauling days were a blast , we had fun and ya got to know everybody . Things went south in Dec of 79 i was one of the lucky ones due to the fact that when i stepped up to a new truck in 77 i got away from a day cab and a tri axle and went with a new 4300 I H eagle with a sleeper for two reasons , one to get all the junk out of the cab and get it ina storage area and two i was getting tired of sleeping over the steering wheel during the winter months while hauling road salt , and i wanted a tandem so i could travel into Pa. and W. Va. with out throwing up a big red flag sayen i am and Ohio Coal bucket and i am heavy . sso i ordered a new East tandem dump built to my spec.'s that would still haul them 45 tonners and be lighter . I ended up with a total light weight of 27400 lbs full of fuel with all my junk lot better then a 32500 light weight as before . When the steel mills went down and the need for coal was gone i was able to stay busy hauling other stuff . My salt hauls to the west to the feed mills going out and scrap coming back still made for a good week. But by 83 things were going down hill again and it was time to hang it up.
Case Nutty 1660
Well-known Member
I live in Gillette Wyoming where we mine millions of tons a year from each of our many mines, they have cut back on production some the last year or so but we just had a piece in our paper that says they are expected to be back on full production and more in the coming months, no mines have closed here but some have been on a "no hire" policy for some time, others have been doing maintenance waiting for more contracts to come in, the lower price of natural gas has been a big factor in the slow down, here but now with the big rise in that cost the power plants are switching back to coal, this happens from time to time here anyway, coal is a very big part of our county's life here, but gas and oil still have a bigger income as well, we also have uranium mining making a come back here as well, we have been using the term "Energy Capitol of the World" here for many years and am sure it will continue for msny yesrs to come
37chief
Well-known Member
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- California
In my opinion those wind powered generators are a joke. A couple weeks back I went past a bunch of them in the desert of Calif, half weren't turning. They are sure big though. Stan
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Do you know how many years worth of known proven oil and gas fields exist? Do you know about frozen hydrates? Are you aware of how many years of energy there is in coal liquidfication? Do you know how much oil-algae can be produced in salt water ponds in the south west?
I remember media fear mongering in the 70's saying the world was a few years from it's last drop of oil. There are more reserves now after 40 years of increased consumption then there "was" then.
I don't mean to sound too much the conspiracy nut, but it's a fact that it's cheaper for an industry to remain with the status quo rather than invest in new tech. Until the profit is there in other forms of energy things will remain as they are. The only monkey wrench in the system is gov't meddling, regulation, fines, etc. That's all it takes to screw up a perfectly good system.
showcrop
Well-known Member
I have been burning coal for nearly thirty years in my hopper feeder Surdiac in my living room. Coal is competitive with cost of wood without the labor added in. I buy it by the pallet of fifty, fifty lb bags for around $8.50 a bag from my local hardware. I am about four hours from the mines in PA. I bet if you looked around you would find someone within fifteen miles that sells coal.
John Fulton
Member
37 Chief, Did you ever pass a hydroelectric dam that was not generating? A coal plant that was down for maintenance? Just because a wind turbine is not turning does not mean it is not operational.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I like coal and it was real good to this area for 60yrs. However at the end of the 80's/90's the guys got jerked around real bad, finally let go and went from making 60k to barely 30k elsewhere. I know the gov't had a lot to do with that. One other thing is I'd say my township lost close to half its good tillable ground. It was technically reclaimed farmable, but reclaimed and something you can plant/harvest soybeans on are 2 completely different things. Guys would have had to dump a bunch of money into it to get it truly farmable, some did. But the problem is they ended up with 60% of the yield potential, nothing in a dry year, many have topsoil rights only. Water goes straight down 80' and there is very little organic matter. So much of it grew up with scrub trees and is essentialy gone for good, along with the farms that were there to begin with. A lot of it is hayed or grazed, but its far from good pasture. I'm not saying that we don't need coal and that it isn't a great economic boom for an area, but there's certainly no going back to what you had before it was mined. I like cheap electricity and I know somewhere has to provide the coal, supposedly the mine is reopening on a much smaller scale next year. As a farmer I'm happy that there are jobs coming for some guys. But I know that the young guys that get hired will get left holding the bag half way through their careers, and we'll lose more farms and ground.
Case Nutty 1660
Well-known Member
we sell coal all over the world from here, I do not know all the facts but we have a LOT of it here, I do know the coal it's self is very reasonable a ton but that the railroads charge a HUGE amount to hale it like ten times the price of the coal, we also have several coal fired power plants here within 5-10 miles of my place, one is only a year or two online and has all of the newest additions that make it very clean, the other has also been constantly upgraded to stay in compliance, here is a shot I took a few days ago of the sunrise and you can see the stacks in the pic, the smoke is just steam the pics show it dark but that is just a trick on light
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flambeauone
Member
I work for Joy Global, we build P &H drag lines and shovels, Le Tourneau loaders and Joy continuous miners, shuttle cars, long wall systems and haulage for under ground. Our customers that I have talked with are looking for an up turn in production for state side coal. A lot of the coal mined here is exported to China and India. Which we all know has very few laws concerning environmental impact of burning it. I can't speculate on the coal market in the future but, I can say that the shop I am at has brought back everyone laid off a year ago and now is looking at hiring more to keep up with demand.
Nancy Howell
Well-known Member
There was a coal mine (surface mining, no tunnels) near Mt. Pleasant for as long as I can remember.
Last year it was shut down. I'm guessing the coal had too much sulfur. Used to be cool to see the cranes all lit up at night.
Always wanted to see if I could get a tour of the facility. Sure won't happen now. Can't tell if they did any reclamation to make the land usable.
Last year it was shut down. I'm guessing the coal had too much sulfur. Used to be cool to see the cranes all lit up at night.
Always wanted to see if I could get a tour of the facility. Sure won't happen now. Can't tell if they did any reclamation to make the land usable.
Case Nutty 1660
Well-known Member
Thanks Alan, here are a few more for you
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johndeerefan
Member
Utilities purchase coal by the btu rating, not by the ton. PRB coal (Wyoming) is lower in btu and lower in emissions, but is cheaper overall. Some plants boilers are set to burn Appalachian coal or Illinois basin coal, but the emissions are greater. Many of these plants are now blending PRB coal and Ill coal to meet that happy median of BTU rating and emission standard. Some other plants have configured their boilers to burn 100% PRB coal.
Hay hay hay
Well-known Member
Remember cars and trucks that belched out emissions and got 7 MPG? (1975) Remember when the River in Cleveland was so full of pollution that it caught on fire?(1967) Remember when the coal suet rained out of the sky on the school playground?(1955)
Remember when 2000 men a year died in the coal mines? (1943) vs 42 last year.
Business will always say it can't be done.
I have been a business man all my life and I still am, but industry only moves when forced to.
If we think back, we have seen this play out before.
We have needed laws to force businesses to be good citizens and find ways to do the proper and ethical thing and quit pouring poison into our land, and putting peoples lives ar risk.
The challenge is that the government regulators need balance, they can not go crazy, they must know when to quit raising the bar beyond reality.
Some of the zealots today seemed to have lost their balance, but in retrospect maybe that was always true.
None of us want to go back to those polluted days, any more than we would want the farmer next door to thoughtlessly let his weed spray drift over and kill our trees and our garden, and our pets.
Remember when 2000 men a year died in the coal mines? (1943) vs 42 last year.
Business will always say it can't be done.
I have been a business man all my life and I still am, but industry only moves when forced to.
If we think back, we have seen this play out before.
We have needed laws to force businesses to be good citizens and find ways to do the proper and ethical thing and quit pouring poison into our land, and putting peoples lives ar risk.
The challenge is that the government regulators need balance, they can not go crazy, they must know when to quit raising the bar beyond reality.
Some of the zealots today seemed to have lost their balance, but in retrospect maybe that was always true.
None of us want to go back to those polluted days, any more than we would want the farmer next door to thoughtlessly let his weed spray drift over and kill our trees and our garden, and our pets.
Hay hay hay
Well-known Member
Let me add. I think the pressure on the use of coal due to emmissions will force and/or stimulate the investment to clean it up as a fuel. I sure hope so, because America has lots and lots of coal, and it is a much cheaper fuel if they can get this problem resolved.
showcrop
Well-known Member
Edd those laws are no longer needed to keep industry in line. courts and Juries are willing to award astronomical judgements for everything that comes before them, regardless of any laws about it. In our modern times it's the lawyers that run industry. Just ask them. They will tell you how many changes they forced on industry.
Very good points. I know some dont like government regulations, but think about the water we drink, air we breath, codes for building houses... etc. If companies are making a profit, good enough as long as they comply with the status quo. With most companies, ethics and profit dont work in the same sentence....
Hay hay hay
Well-known Member
Sorry Showcrop, I am pretty well tuned in to the legal side and although there are a few over reaching enviromental settlements, in most cases the courts are not allowing terrible punitive damages due to enviromental issues. However, the ambulance chasing lawyers, on the tort side have turned the courts into a circus. Car accidents, workmans comp, slip on the ice. We have more TV ads for lawyers here than for peanut butter or used cars.
A prominent Kentucky Representative,currently Speaker of the house, former state Attorney General is doing ads for one of the big law firms, I think he works for them now.
I am surprised that is allowed, but it must be legal, he should know the law. But still seems like a conflict.
A prominent Kentucky Representative,currently Speaker of the house, former state Attorney General is doing ads for one of the big law firms, I think he works for them now.
I am surprised that is allowed, but it must be legal, he should know the law. But still seems like a conflict.
showcrop
Well-known Member
Sorry Edd, but the ambulance chasing lawyers still force settlements that are far more than adequate to cause both industry, and insurance covering industry, to implement changes in industry in order to avoid those settlements. Case in point, probably twice a year, I am asked by a customer for a product that they are sure that they could sell a lot of, but after looking into it my boss, the owner, will decline due to potential liability, nothing to do with laws. The result is many possible products being kept from market due to possible problems that could very well never materialize.
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