Help Out A Clown, Tillage

Bryce Frazier

Well-known Member
Hi all it's Bryce. I must say I am absolutely JAZZED to start farming this coming year. SO, here is my question:
I have about 2-3 acres in two "fields" to plow. I am going to mow and bale the grass off of them first, so this won't be until the fall. I have cut trees off of them, and ripped the stumps out, so roots might be a possibility. I also have the main power line to the house to "find". (not going so well..) But what I want to know, is how to approach tilling it up? I have the following equipment, what I want to know, is what to use, and when to use it!
2x14 trailed plow, 1x16 three point plow
Oliver 6-7 foot disc
6 foot Dearborn Chisel Plow thing?
2x 5 foot sections of spike tooth, together on a Cedar Beam
10 foot Half Semi Tire drag

Everything is field ready, except for the tire drag, it is still in the planning process! I have never done any tillage before, so give me a hand!

By the way, I will be planting some kind of cheap orchard hay (any suggestions?), or something to that extent right before the fall with a borrowed three point drill. Do I need to first use seed bed packers? Let me know what you think! I really do look up to you guys, and I hope you will all have something AWESOME to add. :) Thanks again, Bryce
 
There are code requirements for the depth of power lines. I would say you don't need to worry about them but it depends on who did it. The neighbor burried his and found out they only measure at the pole and the house. His trench was three feet deep on the ends and about 6 inches deep in the middle. That was the tip of the iceberg with him.
 
Bryce, call the power company and explain the situation,they will probably assist you. And, as notjustair said, you can't depend on the depth being to code. When we installed our doublewide the phone co. buried the line across my garden. Next spring I cut it while plowing the garden, it was only about six inches deep.
What tractor will you be using? If it has sufficient power, I would consider using the chisel plow first, going one way and then again at 90 degrees, to drag out a lot of the roots. (pile the roots up in a spot to dry and have a weenee roast some night) LOL Just my thoughts, be careful and have fun.
 
Spray it with Roundup a couple of weeks before you plow. That way you won't have to worry about volunteer grass coming up the next spring. Have fun farming. Jim
 
1. Plow it with the 1X16 3 pt plow.
2. Disc. Disc again. Maybe with the spike tooth behind the disc. Your goal should be a nice smooth seed bed recognizing that this is a newly broken field. The smoother the better. It will make your cutting easier.
3. Plant with the 3 pt drill.
4. Cultipack it if you can. That will smooth it a little more and press any small rocks down into the soil saving you some grief when you cut.
You can call 811 if you want before you do this and tell them about the powerline and they will send someone out. No cost. In my case, it was when I built my new shed. Wis PS sent out a cute pole climber in a 4 door work truck to put little flags down that OK'd digging. Her muscles had muscles. She called me "Hon" the whole time she was there. (about 15 minutes) That's all I could take. (;>))
 
I am a no-till kinda guy. But you need to till this up to get the grass seed started. I would get a sprayer from Northern. The 12 volt 15 to 25 gallon one that has the 15 ft single nozzle. Sprays about 10 gal to acre going about 5 mph. I would spray it with 2 qts per acre of Round-up, can use generic. Then in about 2 weeks use your chisel plow thing to rip it up and drag any little stumps out. Then disc it a few times, then drag your harrow over it a couple times. Then seed it with something and drag the harrow over it again.
 
Well, spraying with anything is out of the question because our water supply is only 15 feet away. I did call 811 this spring when we were ripping trees out. Guy came out and said the he couldn't determine the depth, bs in my opinion... His line of where he "thought it was" looked like the weirdest freakin snake I have ever seen!! SO, I am not having a lot of confidence in this guy! I have a Ferguson TO-30, Ford 2n, and JD 40T that will handle the chisel plow. I have a very low clay layer as well, 6 inches is about the medium. What is better for the land, chisel then disc, or plow then disc? If I rip it up with the chisel one way, then criss cross it, will it be "ripped" up enough for the disc to be able to do it's job?

My three point plow is a Case Eagle hitch 2 way 1x16, pretty cool! I am missing the coulter on the right side, but I have another one i will put on it. I used it to plow a buddys garden, it worked really good, but you have to get off of the tractor to switch the plow... Got tired of that and just left it plowing to the right and worked my way around his garden! What does the coulter prove? I know it cuts the sod, so I assume that I really need on in my case, right?

Thanks for the info guys, I am really excited to learn more! Thanks, Bryce
 
Here we would do it like Bill described.

If you don't have a packer, you can shallow up the spikes on the drag and pull that over a time or 2 after planting.

I also agree spraying with a glyphosate (roundup) onto green plants will really help clear up the weeds in your patch, unless you are morally opposed it sure makes a world of difference in the perennial weeds. Give the spray a week to work before plowing, and you want the weeds to have a little growth on them before spraying.

Paul
 
In my experience a small chisel,plow and sod makes a disaster. It breaks up big hunks of sod that don't roll over, don't get smaller, just sit there. Then the sod re roots itself, and never dies. Just a mess.

So the chisel plow might be helpful in some crop conditions, but here would be much inferior to the plow for sod.

The coulter on the plow cuts the trash - crop residue - on the ground so it doesn't clump up and plug the plow. If you are plowing under short cut grass, you can live without one. If you are plowing down tall grass, you won't get far without one.

Don't spray the water, spray the plants you want to kill, don't understand that comment, but certainly it is your choice on that.

Be Careful on the wires, you will just have to figure out how to deal with that, is it the service wire to your place only, or is it a wire that supplies many people?

Paul
 
We are the last ones on the line, and if I did hit it, it would probably blow the transformer at my grandmas house (next door) where the last pole is. I personally don't care about spraying, and the farmer up the road has a nice Ford 5000 with a big three point sprayer that I am sure he would let me use, however, mom has full blow paninc attacks about the dogs and cats getting sick from the round up that she sprays on little 2 inch plants here and there around the house. She would loose it if I sprayed it on the meadow!! I think that I will probably plow it, just because I at least have a little experience plowing! Never ran a disc before, but I will learn! I figure it is probably as slow going as plowing huh? Bryce
 
Around here we get Canadian thistle and other per annual weeds, they survive even a plowing. But I understand with the spraying.

Plowing is slow, disking is an odd thing. In spring - your case fall - in fresh dirt it can pull pretty hard, tractor wants to lose traction.

In fall of disking down soybean stubble, or what have you, hardly know the disk is back there on harder ground. But anyhow disk is often twice as wide as the plow, so can get done in about 1/2 the time sorta.

Paul
 
If the field has been setting for a while its best to plow it good and deep, so do not use the chisel plow. Then disk it over several times. you might consider getting your soil tested to see what your PH level and other levels of nutrients are.
 
You talk about a Dearborn chisel plow thing. More than likely it is a field cultivator.....good for secondary tillage, like your disc is. Lighter shanks than a chisel plow and doesn"t work as deep. If you make two passes with a secondary tillage machine, do not go at 90 degree angle- way too rough a ride and doesn"t accomplish as much as a 30-45 degree pass. BTW- if you find the elec line with any machine....you"ll get zapped. Get an electrician to locate the entire length, and determine depth.
 
(quoted from post at 22:08:40 01/20/14) I also have the main power line to the house to "find".
Around here we would call "Julie" for a utility locate. At least contact your utility company. It shouldn't cost you anything. As someone else mentioned there the NEC has a national code for depth (search for "NEC 300-5). It states 24" for unprotected direct burial power cable. If you catch it with a plow you'll not only loose power you'll probably damage whatever part of your equipment contacted the line, and have the expense of repairs to both.

Some of the weed seeds will lay dormant for years and years, waiting until the ground is turned. Also, if your wait until fall to cut the existing vegetation some of it will have already gone to seed.
 
Bryce, I don't think it will be fall right after you cut your grass hay. Not sure were you live, but we cut hay in June/July. So as soon as the hay is off is the time to plough. You might want to wait for a rain shower to make the ground soft, and a lot easier to pull the plough through. But get it ploughed before you get a lot of regrowth, and you will also have more time to work the ground over to get the sod broke down. As others have said plough, disc, in that order. But if you have a lot of old sod on top to deal with, your drag harrow, the spike tooth guy with the cedar beam, drag that over the field every few days. This will not take much time or fuel, and it will roll those old sods over , and shake them apart better than any thing eles, and it will help to smooth and level your field making a smooth seed bed. Bruce
 
Lots of good advise here from some knowledgeable fellas.
I'll add that if you are not planting until late summer or early fall work the ground up a month or more before planting. Then whenever you get a flush of weeds disc it again. that will help with weed control.
 

I know that you have used your plow but when mounting and adjusting your three point plow it is very important to have it parallel with the ground surface both side to side and front to back. If it isn't you can end up with a rolling effect as you go crosswise after 2-3 years. just before seeding and you have the ground all worked up and have pulled a pole behind the disc you want correct firmness to the soil. The old rule of thumb is that your pick-up tire should sink in 1.5 inches. Any less, the soils is still too hard, any more it is too soft and the moisture will sink in leaving the seed dry. The best tool for seeding if you can get a hold of one is a Brillion. Orchard grass is excellent feed, as is brome. If you get any timothy be sure that it is a late maturing variety like Climax. Usually you want a legume like clover to fix some nitrogen to help the grass. I like Marathon.
 
Yes there is code for pipelines and subterranean wires. In my experience it is almost universally ignored. Especially on a private installation. Call 811 have them mark it out then shovel dig it in a couple of spots to ensure the depth.
Year or so ago a couple of counties over a guy was laying tile in a field that had been mapped out. He hit and broke a petroleum pipe line that they cheated on 30 or so years ago. What a mess,lawsuits are still flying after that one.
 
other fellas have given you the info on how to plant and use your equipment i can ad from personal experience you must call the locat service in your area, and locate all the lines also any chance of underground pipelines in your area? land changes thru time and utility companies hire subcontractors to install lines and they cheat on the depth ! here on my place its the telephone line its suposed to be 2 foot deep, by county code, i have a picture here of the phone line which ive now found with the tractor several times, the picture contains the broken line, also in the same pic horizontaly from the line is growing grass! its like 1 inch down, i found it then when i was scouping manure with the tractor, and i wasnt letting the loader bucket dig, after they locate, gently dig and find those lines!
 
If you want a nightmare for seed bed preparation, do a poor job plowing.

The sod needs to roll completely over and stay there. If it doesn't, you need to make adjustments. Otherwise, you're just making a mess and no amount of disking will fix it.

I'm speaking from experience. Tried plowing a sweet corn patch with my Cub and couldn't make the sod turn over. It just kept flopping back into the furrow. The ground had never been plowed before, so the plow would go from scraping along the surface to 12" deep in the blink of an eye so making adjustments was an exercise in futility. I started, so I had to finish. It was a mess. I spent hours bouncing over it with a disk and then a spring tooth harrow, and never did get it smooth. Then I planted corn. Then it rained, and rained, and rained. The weeds grew, but you couldn't even walk in the field let alone spray or cultivate. It was a total waste of time.
 
First off, I don't know where you are, and what type of grass/vegetation is on the ground you are planning to work. Here in MD, I would spray wit roundup, after you are done with the hay, then plow and disc as fall rains approach. You might have to spray it a couple times, as new weeds appear, prior to tillage. Use that time to make sure the plow is ready, and the share(s)are not worn out, try a small area. If you don't know how to set up a plow, on your tractor, ask a separate question here, and give the specs of your tractor and plow.

As to the seed I would recommend, here, I use Orchard grass, plant it in the early fall, and again, early march. Your seed choice may depend on where in the country you are. good luck
 
I think the others covered it, I'd just be redundant, but will do so with the "call before you dig" - "one call" etc. If there is a risk of severing, or hooking onto a power line, 2-3 acres of hay is not worth it, hopefully it is buried deep enough and the location service is accurate.

Some photos of what I thought were decent results of tillage for planting food plots. New wear parts on the plow, correctly adjusted, noticeable difference to compare against previous times I've done this, there is no substitute for properly turning over sod, and working the soil with subsequent passes using a disc harrow or other secondary tillage implement to obtain a quality seed bed.
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Well, when I plowed my friends garden, even though it was a little space, I had the same problem the some of you are talking about with the plow, it would either just skim, or bury it's self, and I had a real troubling time keeping it at about 5 inches. I had the TO-30 and my one bottom plow. Would I be better of to just plow it with my big JD and 2-14 trailed plow? I have the room to manuver around, and if anything I could just do the head land with the three point plow? that way the depth is constant, plus this plow has the little moldboard extensions that help roll sod and stuff over. Thanks for the info! We were the first ones to live on the land after the original home stead was sold off, so I am sure all we have is a power line! We have "found" it 5 times before on different parts of it's path, every time it was WAY off from where they marked it. I have devised a way to "insulate" my 2-14 plow from the tractor, that way if I do hit it, it will only zap the plow, in theory!! I still plan on calling, and then flagging where they say it is and how deep it is, that way should something bad happen, it is their a$$, not mine!! Thanks again, Bryce
 
mkirsh - I'm laughing reading your reply, but
certainly not at you.

I think we've all felt that level of frustration
at one time or another. Builds character, right?

Far from an expert on plowing, but I can say
turning over a new field of even soft looking sod
takes a lot of tractor. The bigger the better.

Bryce, unless I missed it, I don't think you
mentioned what you'd be using for a tractor, but
it'll make a huge difference.

Plenty of good advice here as usual - but I'll
just add on little not so obvious pointer:

Be careful if things are going great and you're
moving right along. You might find your head
hitting the steering wheel when you step on the
clutch! Easy to forget you've essentially got a
really good brake engaged while that plow's in the
ground.
 
Sounds like you needed working draft control on the TO, or a gauge wheel if that draft control was not operational. The plow in the photo came with a gauge wheel, I took it off, and put it inside on the shelf, my draft control was not working, but it seems I got better results by doing this manually, though a gauge wheel I believe is for tractors without draft control to ride on the land side, and maintain the depth you set it at. This plow will plug if I mow first, let whats cut dry down in the heat, sometimes it accumulates, trash guard might solve that on this one. I see that you should be able to plow under taller growth under with complete coverage, just I've never been able to do that successfully, so I usually mow, then let it dry, settle a bit. Not too bad, but that does cause it to accumulate and plug enough to require a fix to mitigate this. Its really not recommended to mow/leave the cuttings and or run the disc first because of this as the plants, stalks etc. are severed and will accumulate vs being severed by the coulter as you go, like with corn trash, that is still connected to its roots and severed as you go. My understanding of it, could be incorrect or more to this than I know.

Coulter does leave a cleaner furrow wall, I have removed mine, and put it back on per the conditions, just to learn what works best in what conditions. There is a lot to learn and practice when plowing for sure, and there are those who forgot more about this than I'll likely ever know about moldboard plowing LOL !!! yet I try, learn, and pass what may be of value to others, hopefully no bad advice LOL ! Conditions will vary and change things, I think I've improved my results. The up side was, a few clogs here and there, but the sod for the most part was completely turned under. The one photo of the L shaped plot, one side was thick grass, like what grows in wet areas, is a low spot that the drainage has been impeded by vegetation, you can make a real mess in that stuff. I'm going to say with the conditions I have plowed in, both trash guards and moldboard extensions are useful. The plow in the photo adjusts nicely on my ford 850, its a 110 ford economy plow, with the long landside/heel, gauge wheel and coulter, it came with an option package, as per the tag on it, and it does flip that sod over well, no extension needed. My 101 2 bottom ford, seems to want the mold board extensions, probably trash guards too, but it seems I can control plugging by not mowing, and I'm not plowing under corn trash,so any areas I continually work, trash should not be an issue, I can see however where those extensions would give the extra nudge in sod, especially if rolling the sod up hill or its standing on edge, partially turning over, been there, done that LOL ! Speed comes to mind too, might be an optimum speed to maintain, I'm usually cautious when plowing, unless its a known area to be clear of interferences. So.. I've not yet mastered this 101 plow, (its one with a good reputation for pulling easy and giving nice results) with that tractor, so I used the 110 as I know I'd get better results, and I was happy to notice the difference when I started discing.

Depth I believe is important as it relates to the depth of your top soils, you don't want to turn up subsoils like the clay/gravel we have here under the topsoil. This single bottom with a new rock share will pull itself in until it stops the tractor, but I find even without the gauge wheel on, using the set/stop on my 3 pt lever I don't have to raise it much or often, only when there is an interference, like a rock or tree roots or it plugs up. In heavy moist soils where I encounter thick swamp like grasses, that thing will sink in and bog the tractor down, thats where draft control is nice, you hit areas like that, it compensates and keeps things rolling uniformly, by hand its not so easy to sense and raise up when moving at the right time, works but.... I would recommend the same, whatever plow you can get to perform the best, would be the one I use, like was said, much better seed bed if that plow does the job its supposed to. The L shaped patch with the dead furrow on the right, none of that green came back, I made one pass with the disc, broadcast oats, made one more pass with the disc, which is fine for a larger seed, like oats, normally its drilled in, then finished with the cultipacker. I then overseeded with fine seed, whitetail institute "no plow" Finer seed you may use the packer after discing, firm up the seed bed, broadcast or drill, then make one more pass, few variables and practices that may vary per your conditions. Idea is to get good seed contact, proper depth, and minimize compaction by getting the job done with the least amount of passes, I will say that using a double roller cultipacker in these parts will contribute to much better and more uniform germination, I've done hay, oats and other similar crops in the past, a must have if can be found, you can substitute with various light kinds of drags, anything is better than nothing. That patch germinated oats perfectly, then the no plow forage infilled that. If I was able to address the PH with lime, fertilize, given the weather we had late summer fall, that would be a nice stand this year, weeds would be minimal, I'll bet hand spraying would have taken care of that, seem to think rag weed likes to come up the following spring whenever the soil is disturbed in the fall. In my case I cut when the weeds had seed, so there would be some but if those areas were cut earlier, that too would minimize new seed getting in the soil.

I'd be real careful around power lines, electricity is nothing to fool with or take lightly, it should be buried to a safe depth, you can never trust what you cannot see, it kills without prejudice or hesitation, I'd be wary of trusting any insulation with that much iron and steel, better to avoid the problem. That one patch in the photos is directly under 115,000 volt lines, they sag in the heat and humidity, too close for comfort then, I wait until its cooler and drier air is present, though I have been under their when not, when thinking about it, weather dictates when I go in there, be one big blue searing pop if it ever arced down to the tractor.

This got a bit long, please pardon me on that, just trying to contribute along with the others, nice thread, good advice by all I think, and interesting to read how methods vary across the U.S. and elsewhere.
 
Here is a picture of my plow. Like I said, I have only used it once, but but sides worked really good, one with a coulter, and one without. Does it matter if I have two different types of coulters on it? I have an IH one that is almost identical to the one that is still on the plow. Both coulters have a smooth blade on them. Thanks for the info guys, I really appreciate it! Bryce
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I don't believe it does, set them at the same depth, and seeing this is a a 2 way, only using one side at a time, would appear to be irrelevant. You would benefit from coating the moldboard, paint, tacky grease or plow coat which I think TSC sells, I just clean all the dirt off of mine, blow out the crevices with the compressed air and paint with white rustoleum spray paint, like the one in the photo, it had not been used since fall of '11, that was spring '13. I used white so it contrasts with rust if the paint fails, which has never happened yet. Soils here will scour the most rusted moldboards, thing I do not like is the pitting, they really needed to scour and polish up, as there is no doubt if you try that rusty plow in silty, loamy or the type of soil that holds moisture, sticks when wet or similar, its going to pull hard and the moldboard will build up a deposit of soil in no time, results will be poor too. Currently, it has red grease on it, last I used it finished at night, dew present, so I immediately coated it with the grease out of the gun I had with me, just a slight rust spot after almost 6 months, I prefer the paint, lasts years, just clean well, and make sure its werm enough weather to use, cold, metal and paint does not work well. Oil will settle out of the grease eventually, leaving the soap base behind.
 

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