V Belt drive for a wood splitter

This isn't really an implement and currently it is tractor driven.

I am currently running my splitter with my 65 hp tractor at max
rpms (2500) to get the hyd pump gpm up for my cylinder to
move at the desired speed.

My home made splitter is built on an I beam as most are and I
deliberately have small tires on it to keep it close to the ground.
Reason is I don't want to lift anything I don't have to. It does
present a problem in moving it from storage to point of use as
the cylinder is 4" x 24" and the I beam and wedge(s) are heavy.

Had some bad ice damage with our recent ice storm and have
some trees over 25 years old that are threatening my house and
some buildings.

I have already "felled" and cut up about 2 cords of wood and lots
more to come. Besides these little "projects" keep the mind
active and give me something to do......so cost is not part of it
when considering other alternatives. However, part of the goal is
to get max performance with minimum cost within the confines
of my "available force/speed of travel" guidelines.

I have 5 riding lawn mowers and each has a story and use being
acquired over quite a span. I have one I don't really need with a
16 hp Kohler engine. and 2 blade 42" deck.

Worked the numbers in rpms, gpm, available space and
practicality and today I ordered my pump and controller valve.

Since my engine is 16 hp and a V belt drives 2 blades with that
belt, I see no reason why it won't do a fine job of turning a
hydraulic pump requiring 8 hp at 3600 rpm if I mount a V belt
pulley on it.

Plan is to remove the left side blade spindle and fabricate a
mount for the pump in that spot. Solves several problems:

Drive connection via the V belt is a no brainer

Using the current blade engagement lever, I can start the engine
with the pump off and then engage the pump when desired even
though it is an open center valve. I will remove the blade from
the rt side spindle but keep its V belt pulley in the loop to retain
the disconnect function.

I have twice the hp required for the operation and THE ENGINE IS
ELECTRIC START, oil filter/pressure lube, cast iron liner.
YESSSSSSS Oh, and long since paid for.

Rated rpms are what I need at/around 3600 rpms, which the
mower engine readily provides. Course I could change that with
the V belt pulley ratio.

Having it mounted it in the lawn mower chassis gives me
mobility. Just hook the cylinder and all to the rear and go where
I choose.

It'll be several weeks in finishing but when I get done I'll post
back if any one is interested. Right now I have $287 invested in
the project for a 15 ton force 16 gpm system that will run the
piston full stroke in 6 seconds. That's perfect for me. Only
things left will be what I put into a small hyd oil tank I will build
and hyd. hoses. That ought to get me the performance I'd have
to pay $1500 or so for if store bought.

Later.

Mark

Looking forward to results and pics as I need a splitter and don't have $ to buy one.
And yet another project that SWMBO is NOT gonna be happy about LMAO

Do you think a single belt will pull it? Dad built a splitter useing an old 8 HP Briggs on an 80,000 lb ram. He first tried with belt direct to pump but the belt would slip. He ended up gong through a gear reduction with triple V belts to the gear reduction and roller chain from reduction to pump. By useing the roller chain you don't have all the tension on pump bearing. Let us know how it works when your done.

I always wondered if you could put side pressure on those little two stage hydraulic pumps. Seems like most of them are end driven with Lovejoy connectors or something similar. Sounds like a good idea to utilize what you have available. Keep us posted.

I dont know what you are using for a pump , so!
Most pumps you cannot drive with a pully, as the shaft bearings will not accomidate a side load that belts would create . use a jack shaft, pullies and pillowblock, bearinjgs to create a shaft and use the existing rubber block coupler ...

I run a pump with v-belts, and it's plural 'cause I had to go to dual belts to eliminate slippage.

Sounds like you have really given it some thought, but I bet you will en up doing away with the deck and getting back closer to the engine. Doubt if the belt drive to the deck will ever turn the pump.

I wouldn't attempt to put a pulley on the pump because of the sideway pressure. Most pumps have a small shaft (1/2" or so) compared to a lot bigger small engine shaft.

Mark - it sounds like you've already spent some money, so this is probably a useless comment.

My splitter has a 4"X24" cylinder. It cycles just right on my old John Deere 630, but it barely moved on my friend's Ford 8XX. We did some calculating and found that a 3"X24" would cycle just right on his Ford, so that's what we used on his ho-made splitter. He had a low volume, high(er) pressure pump on his Ford, and the JD has a high(er) volume, low pressure pump. They seem to have equal splitting force.

Just another thought - it might let you lower the RPM's on your tractor, altho some folks are against doing that.

I tried using a belt drive also. Ended up having to go to chain drive. Belts slipped.

Only negative is the 15 ton splitting force. If the beam and pump/valve/cylinder will take the pressure I would shoot for at least 20 tons. You already have enough engine. Perhaps you don't have the harder splitting woods that are typically used for firewood in the Northern states.

Would it be to expensive to just get a pto pump for it? Good luck and let us know how it workes.

Yes, I agree, I just did the math on ours and it come out to 21.5 tons, and I wouldn't want much less. Once in awhile (every 10 cords) it will stall in a dry pi$$ elm crotch. I have never had one stick, I can always just pull it off the knife and turn it and it splits.

I run my wood splitter with a VF4D V4 Wisconsin engine and a B v belt 3/4 inch. My hydraulic pump is a Vickers vane pump.
If I can roll the wood into the splitter it,s going to split it.
The Sheve or pully on the engine is a 6 inch and on the pump is a 4 inch sheve.
Brian

You said 80,000 # ram. I am talking about 12.5 square inches of area with 2500# of hydraulic pressure for about 30,000# of force applied to a 5" highly sharpened wedge blade. #/square inch are going to be out of sight.

Again, if it has been running a lawn mower for 10 or so years with 16 hp and grass so deep you could choke on it, why wouldn't the same V belt run a mere 8 hp requirement? Won't know till I do it but it makes sense going into it.

Mark

This one has a 1/2" shaft. I'm not about to bend that with V belt pressure. Problem if any would be wearing out any bearings supporting that shaft. But considering the operational hours, over it's/my life, negligible.

Mark

Well sir I have and I have run this rig with my 8 or so gallon Ford 3000 pump at 1800 PTO rpm speed and my newer tractor at 13 per minute at 2500.

Pump mfgr says that it is designed to run at 3600 rpm and will pump a max of 20 gpm at that rpm. Flow and pressure are a function of the load. At light load, like just running the wedge up to the log, you get a lot of gpm (fast movement) and minimum force. When you hit the log you get a lot less gpm (creeps) but force goes up 10x or so which is what you would expect and want. Once it breaks the log, the required force will drop and the speed will increase.

Mark

Two points here. 1 is mobility and 2 is dispense with the tractor involvement. Why run a 30 to 65 hp engine to do the work of 8 hp?

Mark

That's why I posted it; for guys like you. Idea here is to get a 16 gpm pump at 3000 psi for minimum bucks.

Problem with splitters is that to get a splitter that is big enough to handle tough logs you need a lot of bore diameter. Obviously you need length to accommodate common log lengths. Problem with that is you have a lot of volume of fluid in the cylinder (area of the bore...1/2 the diameter squared times pi....3.1417 x length of the stroke) to move in and out. That means you need a lot of gpms. That means you need a pretty good pump which requires hp to run those gpms and when needed associated pressures.

To buy a commercial unit with enough whoopie to do what you want you are into the big bucks. Plan here is to make do with you already have available with a few exceptions.

Mark

I think my wife's father runs his 52hp tractor at an idel or just above, with a pto pump, it can't use that much fuel, as he's as cheap as they come. Other question is did you just build this splitter, or have you been running it for years on the tractor? I also thought you said you were gonna use an 18 hp kohler.

My mistake you said 16 hp kohler.

Difference is 2-1 on the cost of the pump. Pump I bought is the Haldex-Barnes 16 gpm, 3000 max pressure 16gpm rated (20 max) on sale at Northern Tool for $184. Next one up is twice that, not on sale and out of stock. Valve is single spool 20 gpm max, open center at $70 at NT. Both products are specifically designed for log splitters.

On the few occasions that I can't bust a log, I have a 20# sledge and a good whack with that on the backing plate of my wedge does the trick.

Other thing you may or may not know is how to split a log. You split it the way it grows, from the bottom up. If you try to split it from the top down it may not split just to turn it around and have the wedge breeze through it.

Mark

I do not like Elm but that is a tree that you must observe the split it the way it grows axiom. BTDT

Mark

Well sir, my reasoning is that it has turned two 21" blades for 10 years mowing knee high or so grass and never slipped once and had few bog downs at governor rpm....3600.

If it will do that seems to me that a paltry 8 hp load would be a walk in the park. We'll see and I will post the results with pics.

Mark

Actually it's a 17.5 hp on a JD L101 42" riding mower. I too was wrong.

Mark

Sounds like you already have your mind made up, so you're not really looking for advice.
Let us know how it works when you get it put together.
I was thinking about making a self-propelled wood splitter out of an old mower, but I haven't got it done yet.

That cylinder came out of the steel mills. The rod that came out of cylinder was 3 1/2" in diameter and 20" of travel. The pump was a large vickers aircraft hydraulic pump and for a reservior he used a large lub refiner off an AC dozer. The first wedge they built busted. Their wedge was not on ram but fixed to 12" H iron bed of splitter. They came up with a differant wedge head design and that one worked. This splitter would split wood that the majority of commerical couldn't split. After getting it built dad only used several times and his health played out on him. His brother used several years splitting Osage orange and some slippery elm.

My sheaves are 6". Since the engine runs governor speed at 3600 and the pump is rated at 3600, I'll just use the existing sheaves at 1:1. Pump is said to be 85% efficient. Don't know what that means to me unless you measure input hp to flow hp you loose 15%. I don't see that as a problem. I will have to give it a dry run to see if anything needs tweaking. Since the pump is rated 20 gpm max, I can always make some adjustments if the cycle time is too slow. But we'll see.

Mark

Well let us know how it turns out if you try it, hey can't hurt to try, and everyone will learn something. Just a side note, my zero turn mowers have belt driven hydro pumps, which in turn run the wheel motors. Good luck Mark.

I never heard that before, I split them which ever way I pick them up, doesn't seem to make any difference.

When I first moved out here in 1978 one of the neighboring "original" family sons, some 70 at the time, let me cut some timber on their land. The land was bottom land and water elms were prevalent.

I had a really tough time with the stringy Elm and after he had his chuckles watching me work at it for a couple of days, he told me what I said. I was utterly amazed at how much difference it made on some of the really stubborn logs.

I have used it on other woods that wouldn't split and it can make a difference.

I prefer Oak as it burts clean, lasts a long time, and leaves good coals for restart.

Mark

Thanks for your comment. I saw a lot of Lovejoy accessories and the adapters. Not sure if that is convenience or necessity. I don't have a cutaway of the pump which would help.

When I get the pump surely mounting instructions are inside. If I am told to avoid lateral pressure, aka belt drive, then I will have to redo my thinking and seek an alternative approach.

I did pull up an arborist site and there is a lot of discussion about mounting there. Today I will do some surfing and get more educated on lateral pressure on those pumps.

Thanks again
Mark

Thanks to all of you for your comments. My plan is not cast in concrete. I needed a starting point and came up with what I thought would work.

I have numerous options. I think the first will be to ensure that the pump I bought will tolerate lateral pressure. If so I can continue with the original plan.

I still think the belt drive ought to work for the reasons mentioned. If not, a chain drive can be incorporated.

If the pump will not tolerate lateral pressure then I may just take the engine in another mower which is the 16 hp Kohler and mount it in a small trailer that I have and include the splitter with it.

Then there were some questions on the arbor site about the pump (they were using) having to be mounted horizontally. If mine has to have that too I can fabricate a bracket and mount my vertical shaft mower engine vertically in the trailer.

Lots of options here but I had to start somewhere and keeping it simple again was one of my original goals.

But it's too wet to plow and I gotta get out of the "Cabin" and do something with my brain and hands and this seemed as good as any place to do that. Besides I can use this. The misses is a bit large to get up in the cab to operate the controls currently and I can't be up there and down loading wood simultaneously. Figured too that someone else could use this idea also if I made it simple, inexpensive, and it worked.

Mark

How a Tree Grows


In humans and other animals growth can occur in most parts of the body. As we mature, our bones, skin and muscle all increase in size. Trees do not grow like this. Trees grow by producing new cells in a very limited number of places. These places of cell division are called meristems. Meristems are zones of intense activity. They are where all new cells are formed and where they expand.

Trees grow in height as a result of meristems that are located at their branch tips. These meristems are called apical meristems. Roots also expand through the soil by growing at their tips as a result of apical meristems. All buds that you see on a tree contain apical meristems. Trunk diameter growth occurs as a result of another meristem already mentioned called the vascular cambium. The vascular cambium produces new xylem and phloem each year and as a result the trunk, branches and roots continue to increase in diameter. Have you ever seen a fence wire or board grown into a tree?
That is the result of the vascular cambium. The fence wire or board doesn't rise into the air because height growth doesn't occur out of the ground, it only occurs from the branch tips.

8 horsepower running a hydraulic pump with just one 5/8" wide belt can make around 4 GPMs @ 1800 PSI if you're lucky. That's not much when it comes to a log splitter. I still have a splitter I built 35 years ago with a Bolens garden-tractor engine and a pump and cylinder off a John Deere 350 crawler-loader. Engine is an S8D Wisconsin. Cylinder is 4" diameter. Pump is a 2.3 cubic inch Cessna. Just to get any wood split I had to put a 3" pulley on the engine and a 14" pulley on the pump. Basically a 4.6 to 1 ratio and even with a 5/8" belt - it slips in tough wood. Note also that the engine runs 3600 RPM. So the pump is only running around 800 RPM. That makes it working as a 5 GPM pump. As long as the 5/8" belt is dry - the engine stalls in tough wood instead of the belt slipping. 8 horsepower is not enough to run a splitter with a single-stage pump unless you've got a 5" or bigger diameter cylinder.

A few more specs:

An 8 horse engine hooked up to a pump rated at 8 GPM can make 1500 PSI max. If hooked to a 4" diameter cylinder - it will move 2.5 inches per second which is OK for a log-spitter. 1500 PSI with a 4" cylinder won't split real tough wood and a single 1/2" belt can run that power anyway.

Mr. Ed.R

Your comment about lateral wear caused me some concern so I researched the subject and found an IPB and sectional view of my pump. Nowhere in the unit is a discrete bearing per se. Apparently the cast iron casting is the race for the geared shaft.

The PDF indicated that misalignment of the shaft could cause premature seal wear. I consider V belt drive equivalent to misalignment. The sales info states that the pump is made to be mounted directly to the engine with suitable couplings to keep any pressure off the input shaft other than radial drive pressure.

However, there is no time line on the the "premature wear" comment. I don't see this thing getting 50 hours of useage in it's life time. Considering the alternatives and all I think I will go ahead and pursue the original plan.

If that fails then Plan B is in effect which means I will use the engine out of the old mower. I will build a bracket to mount the engine in it's normal vertical shaft position and mount the pump under it. Not room to do that with the engine in the mower frame. This I will just slide in my little trailer and bolt her down with battery when splitting time is here. I'll add a hitch to the rear of the trailer and just tow the splitter/cylinder section behind the trailer and tow it all with a ZT lawnmower to the splitting site.

Mark

The first piece of junk I built used an aluminum gear Cessna gear pump. No ball or roller bearing for lateral support. Certainly not intended for a belt drive but the pump was free. It's still working after all these years.

You need at least 16 horsepower to run a single-stage pump for a decent log-splitter. Thus the reason for 2-stage pumps on splitters. I built an 18 horse with a Wisconsin TJD twin and an 8 GPM pump via chain drive. Works well enough but won't do the work an 8 horse will do with a 2 stage pump.