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snowmobiler runs into tractor

Isent against the law to ride a snowmobile on a public road to begin with? It is here. The article also said the road was closed? Intersting.
 
The family of the deceased will most likely sue the owner and operator of the tractor. If so, the tractor owner's insurance will probably settle out of court for a few hundred thousand.

Was the snowmobile operator at least partially at fault? Perhaps. But that's for a jury to decide, and you can be sure the attorneys for either side won't want the case to come to trial.
 
Article says snowmobile was north bound. I looked at the road on Google maps and it shows that road as east/west in the area.

It didn"t give an estimated speed of snow mobile!!
 
Indeed. So, if you are on a seasonal/limited use/non maintained public highway (lane) that adjoins your farm, you're working/minding you own business and it's dusk, make sure your lights are on, and don't block the road! Because if someone comes along who has no business being there and causes trouble, it's YOUR fault!
 
The article said the road involved was "seasonal and not maintained for vehicular traffic that time of year" So if it is not for vehicular traffic, how can you get a ticket for blocking a public road?????

If he had been thinking he should have jumped in the tractor and turned on the lights. But who thinks of that?

I would fight the tickets. If he pays the tickets, it would be admitting some guilt. I think he has no guilt if the guy was drunk.

Gene
 
They sure didn't do the owner of the tractor any favors by giving him an inadequade lighting ticket. He wasn't even on the tractor. Now his lawyer has to find the sticker on the snowmobile that reads " don't crash into large tractors or other heavy objects".
 
Farmer at fault, blocking the road and no warning lights. I have a good neighbor travels the roads daily and NEVER uses warning or lights. He says they run his batterys down.
 
So does ticketing the farmer open the door wide for the deceased's next of kin to take this to court? Seems like the farmer has had enough trouble thrust on him already.
 
Possibly the tractor lights weren't working?
The drivers have gotten so crazy on my road that I run all the lights I can in broad daylight! Doesn't seem to effect them any, but maybe it would help me if trouble like this occurs.
 
I knew when you posted this, the snowmobiler would be from out of town and drinking, thats common practice, weekend warriors headed to Tug Hill or similar places. I had friends that used to do this, recall one running his sled over another persons sled, foolishness will eventually teach you a harsh lesson, in this case he paid for it, of course we don't know the details, its just sad, you don't need an alcohol buzz to enjoy motorized recreation more so when speed is involved, you would think riding alone would do that.

My only point is that this migration of snowmobilers to areas like that, often times intoxicated has been going on for a long time, I'd say its more than typical. I've had groups of friends that used to do this, and its wide open throttle at all times, they'd have to wait for some to catch up they go so fast, seems like a good way to end ones life in a hurry, as is the case here. I never got involved, just not for me.
 
Are you kidding lawyers will be on the phone to the next of kin so they can sure that negligent dangerous farmer who illegally parked and caused an impedence to the speeding snowmobile blah blah. The lawyers are already calling.
 
No. Not kidding. Because I have no personal experience with anything like this. And I hope to my Creator that I never do, because I have little faith in our system of "justice".
 
When I had my sleds I never rode unless stone cold sober. I sold them anyway because I was convinced I was going to kill myself on them (the only "high speed" hobby I decided to quit). The staggering power available at the tip of my thumb was intoxicating enough by itself and made me stupid.
 
Best defense is a good offense. The farmer should immediately sue the family for pain and anguish of being involved in a fatal accident caused by a drunk driver.
 
I agree w/ daninkansas. as a truck driver; I am full aware of the mentality of the ambulance chasing lawyers. Don't matter who caused the accident; if a lawyer thinks a big insurance policy is available; they will try and convince someone to SUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Odds are if the farmer had parked the tractor properly, parallel to the road, and had his lights on, that HE would've been the one killed by the drunk snowmobiler.

The drunk snowmobiler would've been blinded by the tractor's headlights, and wouldn't have seen the farmer crossing the road to get back to his tractor after closing the gate.

Heck, the gate was probably there BECAUSE of snowmobilers, to keep them off the farmer's property.
 
If the snowmobiler was so blind that he couldn't see a big Green tractor blocking his path, then he never should have been allowed to operate ANY machinery.
 
Some counties look the other way when it comes to snowmobile trails and DWI. I would be willing to bet the abandoned road has long been a snowmobile trail when the weather permits. I know of areas where the local authorities could get their quotas on tickets issued if they wanted but they completely ignore the subject. The abandoned road most likely was not an issue in the Sheriff's Dpt. mind.
A few things need to change in regards to these situations. First, for legal purposes there needs to be a minimal amount of snow present from a legal standpoint for snowmobile drivers to operate safely and not have things such as rocks on the surface be an issue. Second, a trail needs to be established from a legal standpoint so if a snowmobiler is not in a designated area he has no legal standing if damage happens to his sled. Upon establishment of a trail the rules of operation need to be enforced by the local authorities just as if it were a paved road operated by registered road vehicles. I won't hold my breath waiting for any of this to happen.
 
If the drunk hadn't hit the tractor, he would have likely had an accident further down the road.

I don't have much sympathy for drunks,.... no one forces them to drink.
 
We have a local guy here who crushed hi knee last week somehow on his sled. He was getting fire wood out of the woods. Now here is the interesting part. He was on his property when the accident happened. They hauled him in with a sheriff's deputy following and had the hospital run a BAT on him. He was clean but still, riding on his own property?

Most of the bad snowmobile accidents here are booze related. average age is between 21-55. You can and will get a DUI on a sled here just like you can get one in a boat. Some people and booze should not mix.

Rick
 

I looked at the map of the NY snowmobile trail system, and that road is a part of it. That means that it would be groomed fairly smooth for snowmobile traffic, and that there would be some expectation of minimal hazards on the trail ahead. Where I ride in New England and Quebec there are lots of warning signs on the trails to be watchful of a trail groomer coming the other way, and they always have lots of amber lights on them. It is never pleasant to run into anything while on the trail, so it is incumbent on the snowmobile rider to not go so fast that he can't stop for an obstacle around the corner regardless of what it is. Law enforcement perhaps took the view that the farmer knew that he was on a snowmobile trail and thus should have made a better attempt himself to help avoid tragedy, like a beacon light that so many of us use on the roads, and to park in such a way that traffic could get around him. It appears that there may have been a little lapse in exercise of common sense on both sides.
 
Neighbor went out snowmobiling one afternoon on a flat ND field; doing about 70 mph, he ran into a shallow drainage ditch and flipped the machine end-ove-end. He was thrown off on the first flip without any injury.

He got a ride home with a drinking companion and came back with his pickup to get the snowmobile. He loaded that machine and drove up onto the higway. At an accident down the road a mile, he stopped, got out and asked the highway patrolman if he wanted a drink!

Wife left him in jail 2 days before she bailed him out.
 
It would seem that both were somewhat at fault. No matter if the road was open for vehicle traffic or not, the farmer should not have stopped in such a position as to block the road when he had to get off for a minute. That's just common sense.
It was determined that the operator of the snowmobile was drinking, therefore his judgement and reaction time was altered. I tend to place more blame on someone who is drinking.
 
hay genius,, maybe the road and or shoulders are soft ,, the goof ball yuppi on the snowmobile was getting his testosterone buzz he shoulda been watchin out for the farmer makin a livin , but as hitlerry said ,what difference does it make ,,
 
Bad deal all the way around. It seems it has to be some ones fault for one reason or another. This is why we now have all the stupid laws and warnings on things. There are times when circumstances add up to an accident and you can point fingers in all sorts of directions. Maybe like the movie said, "everyone dies, it was just his turn"
 
young one in my area killed tried to catch the front bunch hit log suppose dead on contact, left 3 little girls behind . they just like motorcycles you hit something you usually going lose.
 
We will never know what kind of tickets would have been issued to the snowmobile driver. No point in issuing tickets to dead people.
 
in my snowmobile club we have numerous groomers out on the trails all the time--and most of the trails are quite narrow---so you always have to be ready to stop---and many times the groomer operator is off the machine and cutting blow downs.
the snowmobile driver is expected to stop and assist him.
 
Obviously the snow mobile driver was at least partially at fault for his BAL being over the legal limit. The farmer was also at fault. He parked across the road with inadequate lights. Look at the time of the accident....5:19. This time of year it's getting pretty dark at that time. I'd say the dead guy was guilty of being stupid and the farmer is guilty of poor judgement. Not everyone sues when there's an accident or death. In this case it would be interesting to see if the guy being drunk is enough to absolve the farmer of liability. I doubt it. It also doesn't help the farmer that the road is a designated snow mobile trail.
 
That dosent mean squat, the owner of the farm I work on told the local club they did not have his premission to make any trails on the farm. A few weeks later I took a ride on my snowmobile from my house, and low and behold they had a trail on the farms property, I was shocked. Funny part is, a friend that lives next to the farm was riding his atv up the road one day, I stopped to talk to him, up pulls a truck, it was the snowmobile club head, he tells my friend nodding toward the farm, you better not be riding that on the snowmobile trails? I look at the guy and said YOU better not have any trails on that farm! Guy just drove off, but my point is its a problem around here, and owner says no trail, and the club dosent listen, they have trails around here going on the power lines, which is also illegal. I like taking a ride, being out in the woods ect, we went to Salisbury a few times for trail rides, my snowmobile is a sno cross sled so it would only do maybe 90mph, I only did that a few times across lake peisco, or oxbow lake, and we never drank on any trail rides. We were always responsible about it. I haven't been out in 6 years now. But I worked at a snowmobile dealer, and I saw some of the wrecks that came in, it made the hair on you neck stand up!
 
this is a bad situation for both I feel bad for the farmer the most. I also know what is like to lose a loved one in a snowmobile crash in feb of 2003 I lost my best friend he was riding with a group of friends. heading into a corner got off the edge into soft snow fell off sled. hit his neck on small tree killed instantly not a scratch on sled.
 
(quoted from post at 18:33:59 01/17/14) That dosent mean squat, the owner of the farm I work on told the local club they did not have his premission to make any trails on the farm. A few weeks later I took a ride on my snowmobile from my house, and low and behold they had a trail on the farms property, I was shocked. Funny part is, a friend that lives next to the farm was riding his atv up the road one day, I stopped to talk to him, up pulls a truck, it was the snowmobile club head, he tells my friend nodding toward the farm, you better not be riding that on the snowmobile trails? I look at the guy and said YOU better not have any trails on that farm! Guy just drove off, but my point is its a problem around here, and owner says no trail, and the club dosent listen, they have trails around here going on the power lines, which is also illegal. I like taking a ride, being out in the woods ect, we went to Salisbury a few times for trail rides, my

snowmobile is a sno cross sled so it would only do maybe



90mph, I only did that a few times across lake peisco, or
oxbow lake, and we never drank on any trail rides. We were
always responsible about it. I haven't been out in 6 years now. But I worked at a snowmobile dealer, and I saw some of the wrecks that came in, it made the hair on you neck stand up!
Click to expand...

Jay, maybe it is different in NY but over here in NH ME and VT local clubs cannot make trails wherever they want. They are strictly regulated by the state bureau of trails which is under fish and game. A club will PROPOSE a trail and they have to have WRITTEN owner permission for every inch of trail and it has to be all checked out by the bureau of trails or a regional trail chief before it can become a marked trail. That doesn't keep individuals from going off the trails, which is of course a constant problem, which the clubs are constantly battling. It doesn't usually go well for idiots who ride off the trail and get caught by club members. The trail mentioned in the article had to be a state approved trail in order to be on the state trail map.
 
Ok I see, I just know the club around here has maps, charges
riders to join, then they have trails on private land, which they
may or may not have premission to be on, trails along train
tracks, and on power lines. Ect.
 
The road was probably not fully legally closed, just not plowed in the winter, so whether we like it or not, the rules of the road will come out of the woodwork when an accident happens. In court they will come up with a percentage of guilt and the innocent farmer will be found guilty to a certain degree. Too many times the drunk driver wins the lawsuit. I have no faith in a fair judicial system. Jim
 
Here in MI being legally drunk driving anything makes you liable for anything that happens after that. You are legally drunk and operating. It's like a "first or worst" rule and in this case he was the first to break the law and he definately broke the worst law. He broke the law just by his being there on a motor vehicle and drunk. The victims of the colateral affects of him being drunk and operating aren't liable for anything.
 
No, that's the same for ny. Jay seems to be confused again. If
one landowner decides to pull his land the whole trail could
shut down if they can't reconnect it through neighbors lands.
Ny clubs don't/can't just pick where thier trails go without
getting permission and they stand to loose too much if they
attempted to do so.
 
when the cops come out someone will get a ticket for something, usually the survivor.
 
There's not enough to go on in the story. Clearly if the snowmobile driver was drunk should be 100% at fault. His judgement and everything else would be impaired. Other questions, Did he have off highway vehicle insurance? Did he have a proper headlight and brakes on the snowmobile? Was he wearing a helmet? Was he going too fast for the conditions?
 
(quoted from post at 21:45:57 01/17/14) No, that's the same for ny. Jay seems to be confused again. If
one landowner decides to pull his land the whole trail could
shut down if they can't reconnect it through neighbors lands.
Ny clubs don't/can't just pick where thier trails go without
getting permission and they stand to loose too much if they
attempted to do so.
Click to expand...

The problem is that it's not always the trails the club members ride on. I put up a 5 wire fence one fall. I left 2 12 foot wide gates wide open so the considerate, private property respecting, sober, solid citizen snowmobilers that travel the swamp in winter would have an easy way across my land since posted signs and multiple signs telling them to keep off didn't work. The dirty SOB's cut both fences about 100 foot away from the gates! They were too lazy to make a turn and go to the marked gates that were clearly visible. Every one up here is a club member if they have sled so they can get the lower cost registration. It's also a neat trick to make it look like they are a larger voting block than they really are.

We used to ride snowmobiles in the 70's. Top speed was maybe 45 mph, less on our 12 or 16 hp Ski Doos. We'd no more think of cutting a fence than we'd think of burning a house. Times and people change.
 
I don't know of many farmers in my area that can meet the requirements for lighting on ag equipment. Part of that is because I've yet to find a good reference on just what the requirements are. The other part is simple ignorance since few people are aware of the new law that came in effect 2-3 years back.

Unfortunately, the farmer IS in the wrong for his lighting not being on whether there was an accident or not. His being ticketed is not a judgement of cause of the accident, but is a violation that may have contributed. The drunk on the sled, yeah, in my book he's the cause. But as was noted, you can't ticket a corpse...although it would probably be appropriate.

I sort of agree with the idea of the farmer suing the deceased's estate. It seems like a defensive act. He WILL get sued, so he may as well lawyer up and go for it. I would also note that the official sunset time for Syracuse, NY, as close as I could find, on 1/4/14 was 4:43PM. They have the time of the accident at 5:19 PM, 6 minutes after the 1/2 hour after sunset stipulation in the V+T law. I would expect the farmers lawyer to argue accuracy of the time report in court. I know from experience that in cases like this pinpointing the exact time of the accident is almost impossible. Usually they go by the time 911 receives the report and estimate from there. It's extremely rare to get anyone with an exact time in a case like this, but usually it's not an important factor.

The road is not "closed", it's a "Seasonal Use Highway", very common in NY. IOW, it doesn't get plowed or maintained in the winter, usually from around October or Nov to April ...mud season! I would expect the farmers lawyer to argue the status of the road and whether it met the definition of a roadway if it's not maintained.

In the end the insurance companies and lawyers will argue it out. The losers will be the farmer and the deceased's family.
 
Bret, you shouldn't be confusing everyone with facts. They already have their minds made up. You're going to make folks experience cognitive dissonance.
 
As I work 2nd shift in Syracuse NY I can attest that it is dark by 5:30 PM.
A few years ago not to far from our house a farmer doing harvest with a waiting truck/trailer on side of road, with triangles and fourway flashers going, with no access to get off the road have a younger (above legal drunkdriving level) kid speeding slam into trailer and died. YUP, farmer at fault. Last we heard farmer was gonna lose farm over it as family sued.
 
(quoted from post at 22:26:58 01/17/14) Ok I see, I just know the club around here has maps, charges
riders to join, then they have trails on private land, which they
may or [b:1aee05a87e]may not have premission [/b:1aee05a87e]to be on, trails along train
tracks, and on power lines. Ect.
Click to expand...

I have about 1/2 mile, 90 ft wide utility easement on my property that some people seem to think is open for ATV, snowmobile, hunting, etc. I have followed groups of ATVers who told me it's a) the utility company's land, b) it's their "father-in-law's land" (FIL is abutting property owner) c) they've "always ridden there".

I politely explain it's MY land. All have been sober, calm, understanding, polite and respectful once I explain. I am in the process of fencing the property line this year so it's CLEAR that the area is private property. Signs don't mean much.

As for the OP incident, the snowmobiler should have been a) driving with a headlight b) sober c) driving in control, meaning he could stop his sled if encountering an unexpected object like a fallen tree, broke down sled, etc. For my money: the farmer was not at fault. What if the tractor broke down due to electrical problem (i.e. no lights could be powered). Sledders must be prepared for the unexpected.

They drive down our dirt (county road) at high speeds all the time. If you pull out of a driveway, they'll be on you in a heartbeat.
 
Stood up at 45mph to get a better view of what was
ahead one time. Not sure what happened, but after
removing packed snow from inside my helmet and
every orifice of my body, I vowed to never do it
again. I could barely walk and the sled just
idled to a stop.

They are dangerous in the hands of the foolish.
Never tried to ride drunk, Can't imagine how that
would have worked out.

Aaron
 
For my money: the farmer was not at fault. What if the tractor broke down due to electrical problem (i.e. no lights could be powered).
Click to expand...

You could use that same argument for someone who's car or even a semi that broke down. That argument doesn't fly. If your equipment is in the road in the dark you better darn well have lights on it, reflectors, another vehicle with flashing lights, something to warn other drivers. Plus the article said he was blocking the road. Obviously the guy on the sled was wrong. Dead wrong, but the farmer was wrong too.
 
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