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Subsidies revisited.

No surprises, here.

When a system is created where one can collect money earned by others it is reasonable to expect many to sign up.

Dean
 
It would be nice if anyone actually understood the farm bill
before they talked about it.

Groups like this, and EWG.... They don't have any positive
direction, just like to pile on the hate.

Be nice if they get a new farm bill figured out, it is over 2 years
past due.

Be nice if the expanded the Counter Cyclical part of the
program as a true safety net, and chopped down the other
pointless portions of the program.

And everyone knows farmers only get 15% of the farm bill,
while 80% of the money goes to non-working folk? Snap and
such programs are the far bigger portions of the 'Farm' Bill.

Much of the payments made to farm land owners such as they
mention actually is wildlife habitat preservation programs, the
pheasant and deer hunter clubs are behind those payments
for CRP acres. The owners have to plant and maintain a
special mix of native plants, so they have a lot of costs it is not
free money for them. The hunting lobbies are actually the ones
grinning ear to ear on the issue this link brings up.....

Paul
 
and I suppose your family refused rural electrification because it was govt. subsidized? Instead chosing to stay with candles and kerosene lamps. many of the old coots on here are completely full of bs
 
LOL I have to admire some people on here for their convictions and their willingness to pay taxes on their gross income,because there are sure a lot of people who oppose anything that takes money away from Washington. They must all refuse to claim any deductions or tax credits. I'd think they'd listen,as often as Hannity screams about cutting taxes and putting money back in the pockets of average people so they can spend it and expand the economy. Oh well,everybody has their convictions.
 
Fantastic! People trying to justify their handouts! So the farmer only gets 15%. Just how many billions of taxpayer dollars is that 15%. This 15% here and that 10% there is why we have the run away spending we have today.

1. Then need to put all of welfare under one program so that people can see how much is really being spent. That's heat and housing assistance, SNAP, Medicaid and everything else. And call it what it is, welfare.

2. A farm is a business. If you can't run a business in town you go broke. It isn't fair to the taxpayer to make them pay for their food twice, once in the store and once at tax time.

3. I just posted the article because I thought it was interesting. There are a lot of rich land owners who are on the dole. Just because they purchased a thousand acres so they can hunt and have a cabin isn't an excuse for them to rape the system.

Rick
 
Here it is traditional if you own land but don't farm the farm payment subsidy is signed over to the renter. The article title is misleading in that regard. Unless you are talking CRP conservation subsidy which primarily goes to landowners.Roughly 30 million acres cropland is in CRP programs at present. This benefits folks other than the landowner receiving payment. It also likely adds about 0.30 to the market price of corn, by keeping the cropland out of production and in grass only for 10 yrs. There is certainly room for improving the farm bill,but it is a very small fraction of the overall total federal budget.The talk is the new farm bill will just be crop insurance assistance.
 
The land owner is the one that benifits from direct payments. If payments increase so do rental rates . Most farmers looking to rent a piece of ground look first at payments then soil maps.There are a lot of people in the us that are recieving indirect payments that have nevre even seen the land they own
 
Maybe the Subsides you refer to are adm. different in different parts of the country. But here in Western NE and Northern CO. Rent here is 1/3 , 2/3 on wheat ground. The payments are divided that way. Also if you or your Landlord made more than ( I think $500,000) a year off farm income, you cannot collect any payments.( I have one landlord that is in that category) Also you are limited to how much per farm. They the usda has been reducing the amount you can collect by a great amount year by year.
 
"every one has their convictions"-- among Chicago(and a few other places) nnalert the convictions are for federal fraud, theft, falsification of documents- sometimes lying to congress- and the convictions are for 1 to 10 years in federal detention for political corruption(Nagon(sic?) from New Orleans). Some other convictions are for drug abuse (Marion Barry remember?). nnalert get some drunk driving convictions same as some nnalert (Kennedy"s excepted at times).
 
Many are cash rent here.(IN) Never seen a farm program payment. Goes direct to the renter. Thinking is he taking all the risks of producing a crop, not the landlord. I think FSA sort of dictates that ruling here.
 
REMC was a gov't program started by FDR to get electricity to farmers, there wasn't any power company or private company that would run any power to the rural farmers.
 
I don't disagree with you at all. I've been a nnalert ever since I found out what an election was. I've had about all I can take out of nnalert politicians anymore too though. For two years now,they've been going to pass a new Farm Bill and take away my piddling $1100 a year DCP and they can't even accomplish that. Instead of doing a little bit of the dirty word,compromise,and whittle things down a little at a time,they kick the can down the road and keep right on spending as much as ever with extensions and continuing resolutions. Until those idiots get their act together and do something but talk,I'll vote Libertarian whenever I can in protest. I've never been so disgusted with politics in general as I am anymore.
 
(quoted from post at 14:03:36 01/16/14) I don't disagree with you at all. I've been a nnalert ever since I found out what an election was. I've had about all I can take out of nnalert politicians anymore too though. For two years now,they've been going to pass a new Farm Bill and take away my piddling $1100 a year DCP and they can't even accomplish that. Instead of doing a little bit of the dirty word,compromise,and whittle things down a little at a time,they kick the can down the road and keep right on spending as much as ever with extensions and continuing resolutions. Until those idiots get their act together and do something but talk,I'll vote Libertarian whenever I can in protest. I've never been so disgusted with politics in general as I am anymore.
Click to expand...

I agree, politics are disgusting. But lets say I'm running for election on the nnalert ticket. Lets say my Democratic opponent is a real scum bag. I get beat by 1 vote. You and another protesting voter just elected this guy because you denied me the votes needed to win. Sorry, that's how the math plays out. It's a very sorry situation when you choices are throwing your vote away or voting for the least offensive scum bag.

Rick
 
I dont think it will ever be properly fixed. There is always going to be corruption once it starts. Once the people that are in office are out, the policys that allow it are still there, so anyone who is "new" will be going right into the same arena. If there are enough people in office that say leave it alone it more than likely will be. To quote a funny line from a movie, Saturday the 14th,....."Its like closing the barn door after the horses have eaten your children..."
 
Rick,
I agree with you.

There's no better example of what you described than all the voters who voted in 1992 for that jug-eared idiot millionaire from Texas and ended up letting Bill Clinton win. Ross Perot was his name for those who forgot.
 
I was getting a little dab of DCP as I was share cropping with the neighbor. When they came out with the tax rules and the IRS form that you had to fill out, I felt it was more of a pain than I wanted to deal with and I tried to get them to keep the money. I didn't want it. It was less than $400. I couldn't opt out, or refuse the money. it would have thrown my tennant out on all of his operation. I was forced to take money I didn't want.

Gene
 
Let me tell you something that actually happened in the last election. We're a heavily nnalert community,but a local guy,grew up here and went to the same school I did,is a nnalert and has been Township Supervisor for 25 years. I can only remember one time that a nnalert has run against him,and the nnalert lost,even in this community. He doesn't do anything extraordinary,but he does what he's supposed to do and keeps the wheels from falling off.
There's a drug gang who've been trying their darndest to take over this community. They ran a candidate against him in the nnalert primary last election. They knew nobody was running for supervisor on the nnalert ticket and that voting in the Democratic primary would be light. They figured they'd get out in big numbers and vote for their guy and he'd be supervisor by default because there wasn't a nnalert candidate to run in the general election.
Some of us around here had to hold our noses and vote in the Democratic primary to keep a drug gang from taking over the township. He was one of the few nnalert who were even on the primary ballot. They didn't even have a candidate for most positions. When I admitted on here that I voted in the Democratic primary,because I had to,I was dragged through the mud by all the tough guy "thinking" nnalert on here for doing what I had to do. Yea right. I was supposed to acutally,not just maybe,let scumbags win an election just because I was "what's wrong with this country" because I voted nnalert one time when I had to.

As far as a nnalert loosing to a nnalert by one vote around here because I voted Libertarian,won't happen here,ever. If they take a look at the election results and see that they actually have some competition though,it might wake a few of them up.
 
You're right Gene. Amazing ain't it? The 95 Farm Bill was supposed to phase payments out. I get up every morning and do my job,but after 14 years those lazy bloated windbags in DC still haven't done what they've been saying they'd do. If somebody wants to have those piddling payments taken away from us,let me remind those folks,those are YOUR elected officials too who aren't doing their jobs. Go cry to them about not doing anything to stop it.
 
aint no more GRAIN BASE payments made to REAL farmers,, just crp , and subsidy for crop insurance... we mite ought to have a deficiency payment for corn again ...
 
Among many things, a farm / crop loan that must be paid back in full plus interest is listed by the EWG as a gift, as though it was never paid back. Such tactics are not an oversight either, they are intentional fraud to make farmers look bad to an uninformed public.
 
There are 15 titles in the farm bill, at least the last one anyway. To say that only 15% of that money is going to benefit farmers is obnixous. If you live in a rural area and have high speed internet it is most likely a gift from the taxpayers through rural development money, per the farm bill. I could go on forever. We should talk about indirect subsidies also. For instance, water in the western 1/2 of the US. I say sell it to the highest bidder and get the cost off those water projects off the back of the tax payer, who cares about growing cotton, potatoes and flowers in the desert.
 
(quoted from post at 13:42:50 01/16/14) REMC was a gov't program started by FDR to get electricity to farmers, there wasn't any power company or private company that would run any power to the rural farmers.
Click to expand...

No, Rural Electrification was a program to put people to work at the height of the Depression. It was also a way for FDR to run over some of his enemies and to use taxpayer dollars to get a lot of votes from the sheeple that believed he was doing it all for them! Rural farmers, families and businesses prior to main line electric could use a home power plant, ala- HOMELITE, or wind powered battery chargers. It's not like there was no electricity in rural areas until FDR turned the switch. And families that couldn't afford a light plant couldn't afford to wire their homes for mainline either. That's why you see so many old pics of the bare single bulb hanging from the knob and tube wiring on the ceiling, That was IT! One bulb.

This revisionist history where Uncle Sam miraculously provided free everything to all of America is pure bull.
 
(quoted from post at 14:03:36 01/16/14) I don't disagree with you at all. I've been a nnalert ever since I found out what an election was. I've had about all I can take out of nnalert politicians anymore too though. For two years now,they've been going to pass a new Farm Bill and take away my piddling $1100 a year DCP and they can't even accomplish that. Instead of doing a little bit of the dirty word,compromise,and whittle things down a little at a time,they kick the can down the road and keep right on spending as much as ever with extensions and continuing resolutions. Until those idiots get their act together and do something but talk,I'll vote Libertarian whenever I can in protest. I've never been so disgusted with politics in general as I am anymore.
Click to expand...

I'm holding my nose on the RINO nnalert too, but look at the bigger picture. 80% of the Farm Bill is food stamps. That's whats holding most of it up. What is there to compromise on? We have more people than ever on food stamps, the gov't is actively advertising food stamps in MEXICO, they're trying to get MORE people on here, the UE rate is at almost 14%, revenue isn't nearly covering costs.....where do you compromise? The nnalert aren't going to cut SNAP at all, big ag isn't willing to give up a penny, where do you find a place to cut?
 
Also need to throw in the foreign aid to other countries that have to turn around and buy US farm products with a good portion of it.Also western grazing lands that some cattle producers get for next to nothing that compete with those of us that buy land and pay taxes on it.The water thing is really crazy where the Gov't pays for irrigation water projects to grow crops that could easily be grown in places that its actually rains.
 
I think they had an offer of a 4 billion dollar cut didn't they? That would have been 4 billion less than they'd been spending,but NO,had to try to get 40 billion that they KNEW they couldn't get and that O wouldn't sign if they did. They could have had that cut 2 years ago and could have eliminated DCP payments to us farmers and saved that money too. It was just more fun to run to a microphone and campaign than to do their job.
 
Complete agreement! Worse, I hunt on BLM land several times a year and the guys that have the grazing rights think they own it.I have torn down lots of no hunting signs on public land. One of the consiquences of the subsidies is we overproduce 30-50 % more than we consume. With more taxpayers subsidies we dump this on the world market at less than the cost of production. It goes to poor countries in Africa and Asia. No way can those local farmers compete with the taxpayer subsidized grain from the US, in some cases provided free. They lose their local agriculture infastructure, causing poverty and dependency. Food for peace ?Good intention, bad outcome. The idea that we are the most efficient farmers is a joke. I can assure you the farmer in the Sudan or East Timor is not getting any taxpayers subsidies, not even 15%.
 
To who ever wrote that there is no payments except for crp. You are dead wrong. I took home 5500 in direct payments last year and I am a very small farmer in our neck of the woods. I am a wheat and small grain farmer Payments are on Wheat, Barley and Oats. I have not raised Barley for fifty years and oats for 40 years. Its a small payment on these but a payment none the less.
 
You talk about subsides for crop ins. Even with the gov. payment a lot of the preium it still cost the farmer lots. and if you have losses the next year your pre. goes up and if you have another loss it pays out less . Now you have to take crop ins. to get the direct payments. Now as to the 50's farm program. You had to cut back your planted ac of wheat , Barley and Oats in our country. That cut was 50% In summerfallow land where we planted 1/2 of our ground a year (160ac.= 80ac a year in crop. Gov. program 40 ac of crop a year.. AND you had to comply or you could not sell a bu, of wheat , barley or Oats. Only one crop quialified to plant on the idle ac.'s that was Poroso Millet. You had to prove you were in compliance and than they issued a green card to sell. I worked for the usda in those years by measuring ac's. on every farm in our county.
 
This country is to big for a farm program to be fair and equal. One size does not fit all. Even though I have been in the programs all my farming life (60 years) I have always felt and wished the gov. would close up all farm offices and let the farmer survive like the city businessman.
 
Let the farmer survive like the city businessmen? Have you read the paper lately? I guess you must not be talking about the businesses that get reduced tax rates, infrastructure built for them, signage paid for by motel tax dollars etc. Many times the city sewer and water system has to be expanded to handle a new factory coming to town. Who pays for that? Not the new business. In fact, they are probably given the property and have the taxes waived for 5 years. It is the tax paying citizens that have to pay for the new sewage plant.
 
(quoted from post at 20:05:34 01/18/14) Let the farmer survive like the city businessmen? Have you read the paper lately? I guess you must not be talking about the businesses that get reduced tax rates, infrastructure built for them, signage paid for by motel tax dollars etc. Many times the city sewer and water system has to be expanded to handle a new factory coming to town. Who pays for that? Not the new business. In fact, they are probably given the property and have the taxes waived for 5 years. It is the tax paying citizens that have to pay for the new sewage plant.
Click to expand...

Jim the flaw in your argument is that most "businesses" are small and get few incentives. For example, the closest town that tries to attract businesses gives very few incentives that last no more than 5 years. How many years have farmers been getting subsidies? Been paid to stay in business and not over produce? Sorry but there is a huge difference between a farmer who may or may not hire workers and a business that comes in a hires 20-30 or more who are going to need homes and need other services.

Rick
 
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