- Thread starter Bkpigs
- Start date
I put new baseboard heat in late last winter. They say min. of one foot over top of heater and six inches on ends. I try not to put anything in front of heater but if I have to I keep chairs one and half foot out in front of heater. They work best if put under a window.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Had that and WILL NEVER have it again. Poor heat as to covering the full room so you had cold spots. Need a go bit of air space between it and stuff that can burn.
Thats why I put in baseboard heat because the wood and gas had cool spots in house. If you had cold spots you didn't have them located right or not the right size heater. To do baseboard heat right you need heater in each room and figure out square footage of each room and get heater or heaters needed to heat that square footage.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
We have electric baseboard and like it fine. We have furniture within 6" of it and have not had a problem. Some of the curtains actually touch the end of the heaters. We have lived in this house about 20 years and the electric heat was here when we moved here. As far as cost, it has actually cheaper than other forms of heat we have used, as long as we can still get the special heat rate from the Electric Coop. If not it might get expensive. Placement of heaters and thermostats is probably the most important part of getting even heating. We have a couple of spots that tend to be a little cooler at times, but this is due to some remodeling and the thermostats probably should have be moved. Maintenance cost have been minimal. One other advantage is that you can control the temps. in other room's if you want them warmer or cooler. The biggest drawback is probably the air conditioning. We have 2 window units and run fans, but the cooling is somewhat uneven.
I've got it in half the house. Two comments on them.
Here, where I live they work well, expensive to use
but good warm heat. Much warmer than the 'snow
blower' aka heat pump.
The other is a rental house I had, had being the key
word. They got a bed too close to one, kids were
playing, jumping on the bed, and got covers off on
the unit. Total loss and, for the last time in my
life, inadequately insured.
Here, where I live they work well, expensive to use
but good warm heat. Much warmer than the 'snow
blower' aka heat pump.
The other is a rental house I had, had being the key
word. They got a bed too close to one, kids were
playing, jumping on the bed, and got covers off on
the unit. Total loss and, for the last time in my
life, inadequately insured.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Another reason I do not and will never have it again is I had one house that had it and the cost to heat it this time of year was $400 a month and that was 20 plus years ago. I'll take wood heat over it any time and a simple ceiling fan fixes the cold spots of wood heat
Electric heat is great if your house is insulated well. My electric bill, in the middle of the winter in upstate NY is about $200 and $45 in the summer. That's a total electric bill, I have no oil/propane/gas bill. That is more than half of what my friend pays and our houses were built at the same time, he has oil and propane.
I keep everything 6" from the heaters. Best of luck, Anthony
I keep everything 6" from the heaters. Best of luck, Anthony
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Talk to your electric company, a guy by me put in some electric heat source and the power company put the heater on a different meter, the cost per kw was much cheaper, I don't remember what he had to pay per kw, but he said it came out pretty close to what he spent on fuel oil per year! Tom
The old farm house I own was built in 1915. Dad installed electric base board heat in 1969 along with blowing insulation in the walls.
All the heaters still work except the one that was behind the toilet. I had to replace it 5 years ago.
It costs about $750 a year to heat that old 2 story 1800 square foot house.
I was going to put it in my 2000 built house because I liked it so well. After talking with the power company they talked me into Geothermal heat which I like as well.
If it is a drafty structure all heat sources are expensive.
I put in new better insulated windows in that old house 6 years ago. The electric bill dropped about 30% during the winter months.
Gary
All the heaters still work except the one that was behind the toilet. I had to replace it 5 years ago.
It costs about $750 a year to heat that old 2 story 1800 square foot house.
I was going to put it in my 2000 built house because I liked it so well. After talking with the power company they talked me into Geothermal heat which I like as well.
If it is a drafty structure all heat sources are expensive.
I put in new better insulated windows in that old house 6 years ago. The electric bill dropped about 30% during the winter months.
Gary
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Reasonable in price if just heating a bathroom or something.
Even as whole house heat they are very reasonable if on a
timer with a Time of Use electrical meter.
Many people forget that installation and service costs over
the years are just as real as the monthly energy bill. My house
has a forced air electric and a timer thermostat . An oil furnace
swap would never pay. A LP furnace would break even if no
service was required for 10-12 years.
The electric is just used anyways as backup to the high
efficiency wood insert in the fireplace . For the 3-4 coldest
months.
Even as whole house heat they are very reasonable if on a
timer with a Time of Use electrical meter.
Many people forget that installation and service costs over
the years are just as real as the monthly energy bill. My house
has a forced air electric and a timer thermostat . An oil furnace
swap would never pay. A LP furnace would break even if no
service was required for 10-12 years.
The electric is just used anyways as backup to the high
efficiency wood insert in the fireplace . For the 3-4 coldest
months.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
The key word is insulate, baseboard heat should not be the shortcut to heating a house but planed. We have a well insulated house with wall theromstats that is great. The other is an older house with switches on the end of the units, they almost never turn off and in the end are used only for emergency heat. The old house is too expensive to heat with electric.
The house needs to be air tight. I bought a farm
house and acreage really cheap back in 1983
because the people were afraid propane. They
removed all gas pipes and installed base board
electric heaters. they also insulated good and
installed dual pane windows but when the temp got
35 or below outside you could not stay there
because the heaters could not keep up. The house
was built in 1917. I pulled them out and installed
propane heat and all was well. I later built a
1200 sq ft house for rental and used the baseboard
heaters in it. They are still working just fine in
it.
house and acreage really cheap back in 1983
because the people were afraid propane. They
removed all gas pipes and installed base board
electric heaters. they also insulated good and
installed dual pane windows but when the temp got
35 or below outside you could not stay there
because the heaters could not keep up. The house
was built in 1917. I pulled them out and installed
propane heat and all was well. I later built a
1200 sq ft house for rental and used the baseboard
heaters in it. They are still working just fine in
it.
What are you calling "upstate NY" and what are you paying per KWH for electric? I own three places in NY. One technically in "central NY" near Cooperstown, one in "northern NY" near Watertown, and one in the central Adirondacks in Hamilton County. At all three I pay 16-17 cents per KWH.
My last bill at one of places was $98.10 for 613 KWHs of electricity. Note that is also NO night-rate offered at any of the places I have. Bill at another was $94.42 for 531 KWH.
At 17 cents per KWH - electric heat costs near twice as much as any other common fuel.
Cost of 1,000,000 BTUs of heat
Electric @ .12 = $35.16
Electric @ .17 = $46.75
Propane @ $2.50 per gallon = $27.50
NG @ .83 per therm = $8.30
Heating oil @ $3.49 per gallon = $25.82
Hardwood firewood @ $175 per cord = $8.30
Adjusted after loss for 1,000,000 BTUs:
Electric @ .12 @ 100% = $35.16
Electric @ .17 @ 100% = $46.75
Propane @ 91% = $29.97
NG @ 91% = $9.04
Heating oil @ 83% = $30.20
Hardwood firewood @ 60% = $11.62
My last bill at one of places was $98.10 for 613 KWHs of electricity. Note that is also NO night-rate offered at any of the places I have. Bill at another was $94.42 for 531 KWH.
At 17 cents per KWH - electric heat costs near twice as much as any other common fuel.
Cost of 1,000,000 BTUs of heat
Electric @ .12 = $35.16
Electric @ .17 = $46.75
Propane @ $2.50 per gallon = $27.50
NG @ .83 per therm = $8.30
Heating oil @ $3.49 per gallon = $25.82
Hardwood firewood @ $175 per cord = $8.30
Adjusted after loss for 1,000,000 BTUs:
Electric @ .12 @ 100% = $35.16
Electric @ .17 @ 100% = $46.75
Propane @ 91% = $29.97
NG @ 91% = $9.04
Heating oil @ 83% = $30.20
Hardwood firewood @ 60% = $11.62
dr sportster
Well-known Member
Cords cannot be draped over it . It can be hot enough to catch a stuffed animal on fire. It will spin the meter fast.
farmer boy
Well-known Member
Our average here is about the same. The 'actual' rate is lower, but by the time they add taxes, delivery, debt reduction, along with 1 or 2 other charges, we average 16-18/kwh. The TOU charges are actually higher in the winter.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
You'll stay cold and broke,baseboard heat in a new house cost me Big $$$ back in 1977 thats why I went to wood heat.
I"m not sure what I pay per kw off the top of my head, i don"t have the bill in front of me. I live near Saratoga, NY. My buddy pays $150 a month for electric and around $300-$350 for oil/propane, so around $450-$500 during the winter for electric and heat. I pay at most $250 for electric and heat, that"s half, yes, I did upgrade with more insulation when I built my house but it has already paid for itself in less than 5 years.
The fact remains that electricity in Saratoga NY buys a lot less heat per dollar then any other of the common fuels e.g. coal, oil, propane, NG, firewood, etc. Your bill may be lower then someone else's but that has nothing to do with your specific use of electricity. It's more about the size of your house and how well insulated it is.
get rid of it while under construction. Base board heat is the most expensive form I know of.Everyone I know of has removed it. Go with a good gas heater (natural or propane), or better yet an outdorr wood burner. anything other than baseboard. An electrical heat strip is far more efficient and keeps the house evenly heated( Something a baseboard system cant do.
Bus Driver
Well-known Member
"I forgot to say that the oil filled baseboard
heaters are much more efficient than the "Fin"
type."
Not true. With electric heaters, 1 watt is approximately 3.41214 BTU/h. This is true no matter the type of heater or how much (or little) the heater costs. The oil adds weight and cost but not efficiency.
heaters are much more efficient than the "Fin"
type."
Not true. With electric heaters, 1 watt is approximately 3.41214 BTU/h. This is true no matter the type of heater or how much (or little) the heater costs. The oil adds weight and cost but not efficiency.
Chris Jones
Member
to answer your question on clearance--not much in reality. I'm sure the mfg will tell you lots but like everything else it's liability related. I had baseboard heat for 18 years of my life. We put end tables upside the walls in front of them with no problems. Had a sofa in front of one about 3 inches from the unit or 6 inches from the wall over it. The heat flows out and up. Sofa had a wood back so no melt-able or flammable material, and it had stubby little legs about 2 inches long leaving space under it for air to move in to the baseboard unit. The table had legs and the top stuck out from the legs a few inches. If the legs were say 2 X 2 and 2 inches from the heat it'd be fine.
As for my feeling on the units. They are nice, cheap and basically trouble free. Rooms can be heated only when needed and kept different temps. That gives the "potential" for saving money. I've always been told they cost more than oil or propane and up until 2005 or so I'd say without a doubt that was true. But with oil and propane going up tremendously I'm not sure it still is--not sure means it's to the point of having to compare cost of fuels in your area with electricity costs etc. But taking into account up front, maintenance, and replacement costs of baseboard heat with other forms of heat, I think they might well be very competitive now.
I moved into my current house in 1993 and it had baseboard heat and no AC. I wanted central AC and why not go heat pump was my thinking as it's definitely the cheapest form of heat around here if it doesn't need to run the heat strips. I left the baseboard units wired and occasionally still use them for space heat.
Back to your question on clearances. I keep my house thermostat low by most peoples standards I expect--66deg as I'm trying hard to save money. but when I'm in my home office like right now I sometimes block off the floor vent with a book, shut the door and turn on the baseboard unit. I'm sitting on the floor now leaning against the wall in front of the baseboard unit enjoying the warm heat flowing up my back. I can't hold my bare hand to the unit but sitting here feels good--so not so hot--just use common sense and leave a place for the heat to go.
P.S. Despite what people say about heat pumps not working below 40--I watched mine closely these past 2 evenings/mornings when it's been 10 degrees outside. I'm happy to report mine has managed to keep my house at my set 66 even turning off for short periods of time. I've watched the 2 vials of mercury in my old thermostat to see if it's calling for strip heat and monitored the temps coming out the vents to see how well it's preforming. It was only putting out a 10 degree temp rise (76-78) but I never caught the heat strips on. Your results may vary.
As for my feeling on the units. They are nice, cheap and basically trouble free. Rooms can be heated only when needed and kept different temps. That gives the "potential" for saving money. I've always been told they cost more than oil or propane and up until 2005 or so I'd say without a doubt that was true. But with oil and propane going up tremendously I'm not sure it still is--not sure means it's to the point of having to compare cost of fuels in your area with electricity costs etc. But taking into account up front, maintenance, and replacement costs of baseboard heat with other forms of heat, I think they might well be very competitive now.
I moved into my current house in 1993 and it had baseboard heat and no AC. I wanted central AC and why not go heat pump was my thinking as it's definitely the cheapest form of heat around here if it doesn't need to run the heat strips. I left the baseboard units wired and occasionally still use them for space heat.
Back to your question on clearances. I keep my house thermostat low by most peoples standards I expect--66deg as I'm trying hard to save money. but when I'm in my home office like right now I sometimes block off the floor vent with a book, shut the door and turn on the baseboard unit. I'm sitting on the floor now leaning against the wall in front of the baseboard unit enjoying the warm heat flowing up my back. I can't hold my bare hand to the unit but sitting here feels good--so not so hot--just use common sense and leave a place for the heat to go.
P.S. Despite what people say about heat pumps not working below 40--I watched mine closely these past 2 evenings/mornings when it's been 10 degrees outside. I'm happy to report mine has managed to keep my house at my set 66 even turning off for short periods of time. I've watched the 2 vials of mercury in my old thermostat to see if it's calling for strip heat and monitored the temps coming out the vents to see how well it's preforming. It was only putting out a 10 degree temp rise (76-78) but I never caught the heat strips on. Your results may vary.
James Williams
Well-known Member
Ive had baseboard heat for 30 years,It was cheap to install,Never goes bad,And thank God power has never went out.Thoes who doesnt like it,probally never calculated the amount of heat needed,nor installed it right.Make sure you have enough heaters.This year weve added a electric fan forced heater to our house.Our house is a old house with minimun insulation,and a little drafty.We sit out thermostat on 70 and its comfortable.I live in WV,the coldest we get is usally O
jimmy
jimmy
RamblinMan
Member
I have used electric baseboard heat for 25 years. My house is well insulated and my electric provider gives me a good discount with an all electric home. If a baseboard unit goes bad, I simply run over to Menards and buy a new one. In the meantime the house stays nice and warm. They try to sell heat pumps here in Central Illinois. They wear out and cost as much to repair as to replace. When the temperature gets cold you are running a heating element instead of the pump. I work for an electric utility and get a good laugh out of the nonsense they use to sell heat pumps here. They will give you a rebate just to install one because all the heating contractors know they are not designed for this climate. It"s a air conditioning compressor that will wear out and fail.
What I like about Base board heat is it is easy to put in ,low maintance cost and not expensive to buy. I Put in 7 baseboard heaters with thermostats, wiring, sub box,and breakers and cost about $1,300. No labor cost because Iam retired and have plenty of free time on my hands in winter. My daughter has heat pump and it takes a master mind to work on it.
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
We had instance where a lamp cord ended up against the fins and melted the insulation, shorted to ground and tripped the breaker for the lamp circuit.
It's cheap to put in and virtually maintenance free. Works well with wood heat, it will heat the areas the wood heat doesn't get to.
But the bottom line is the price per KW, and you need all the insulation you can get.
It's cheap to put in and virtually maintenance free. Works well with wood heat, it will heat the areas the wood heat doesn't get to.
But the bottom line is the price per KW, and you need all the insulation you can get.
RamblinMan
Member
The first service call, out of warranty, on that heat pump will eat up the savings over the baseboard. My neighbor has blown thru 2 compressors that were out of warranty. Plus the compressor is so noisy I can hear it all the time because it"s got a bad bearing again.
It may be that 1 watt equals 3.41214 btu/h, but, how that heater uses those btu/h does matter. If a heater uses those btu/h more efficiently (quicker, more evenly distributed) you will have a savings, period. It may not be huge but it will be a savings. Look at woodstoves produced 10 years ago vs. those produced today, much more efficient using the same amount of wood allowing a cord of wood to last longer. Pellet stoves are the same as well, my MIL"s pellet stove puts out the same btu/h as mine does but my stove is much more efficient and instead of the heat being lost out the pipe it is contained in the house allowing me to save pellets in a given time period.
Can't forget about the initial cost of the unit, it will take my friend decades to see the savings that I am experiencing right now, not to mention I can replace all of the baseboard heaters in my house with newer more efficient models for the same price it would cost him to have a minor/middle of the road repair to his furnace, not to mention the yearly cost of cleaning, filters, maintenance.
My 1100 sq. ft. house is also all electric with base board heaters. I pay $112 per month which includes running a 3/4 hp well pump thru the summer for watering the grass. Power is $.06/kwh here. Thermostats are set on 70 degrees during the winter.
One thing I like about base board heating is if a heater goes out, I only loose heat in that room, the rest of the house has heat which is very important here. We commonly get into the -30 degree range here for a week or two at a time and I have seen as low as -50 which is why I also have a wood stove in the basement if the power goes out. I like back ups and if possible back ups to the back ups.
One thing I like about base board heating is if a heater goes out, I only loose heat in that room, the rest of the house has heat which is very important here. We commonly get into the -30 degree range here for a week or two at a time and I have seen as low as -50 which is why I also have a wood stove in the basement if the power goes out. I like back ups and if possible back ups to the back ups.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
76% of the power we use is on the lowest rate which appears to be 7.2cents but works out to approx 14-15 cents. Mid and high rate are 10.9 and 12.9 respectively . So approx 22 and 26 cents .
I can't see any particular savings converting to a heat pump or LP . One hefty service call out of warrenty would wipe out any benefit.
Now if we didn't have the air tight wood the advantage would be tilt slightly towards a mid efficiency LP.
I can't see any particular savings converting to a heat pump or LP . One hefty service call out of warrenty would wipe out any benefit.
Now if we didn't have the air tight wood the advantage would be tilt slightly towards a mid efficiency LP.
RamblinMan
Member
At $750 a year for baseboard I'm curious when the break even point will be with the Geothermal? I work for an electric utility company and I always tell people not to talk with their energy experts. They sell the heck out of heat pumps because of the utility rebate. Funny thing is all the heating contractors don't recommend them. Of course they all install them because if they don't the other contractor will. That rebate is a carrot that people can't resist.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
I too Have electric heat but it is a heat pump set up. Base board heat just doesn't seem to cut it for me and caused to many problems in the past for me so I do not like it
The cost of instalation of geo as compared to electric base board cost about 6000 more for geo.
With base board you would still have to run ducts and a ac unit to have central air.
I save on cooling as well as heat electric costs with the geo.Cooling with geo saves everything you spend for electricity by using the exhaust to pre heat your hot water. Heating cost about $250 a year for my 2200 square foot home per year.
I"m gonna guess I save about the same per year on cooling as compared to a regular central air system.
So heating with baseboard at $750 and cooling at $250 a year with regular AC equals $1250 a year heating and cooling.
Heating and cooling with geo cost me $400 not counting the gain for hot water.
850 a year savins with geo or about an 8 year payback for geo.
Only thing is I know the life of baseboards will be longer than my geo compressor and fan.
If it was heating only electric baseboard wins in the long run. You add in central air it is a wash.
Except I am using less electricity for others to use with geo.
Gary
With base board you would still have to run ducts and a ac unit to have central air.
I save on cooling as well as heat electric costs with the geo.Cooling with geo saves everything you spend for electricity by using the exhaust to pre heat your hot water. Heating cost about $250 a year for my 2200 square foot home per year.
I"m gonna guess I save about the same per year on cooling as compared to a regular central air system.
So heating with baseboard at $750 and cooling at $250 a year with regular AC equals $1250 a year heating and cooling.
Heating and cooling with geo cost me $400 not counting the gain for hot water.
850 a year savins with geo or about an 8 year payback for geo.
Only thing is I know the life of baseboards will be longer than my geo compressor and fan.
If it was heating only electric baseboard wins in the long run. You add in central air it is a wash.
Except I am using less electricity for others to use with geo.
Gary
RamblinMan
Member
I have a total cost of $65 for 25 years of electric baseboard heat repairs. My neighbor bought his heat pump for $7,000 and replaced the compressor twice out of warranty. It is a Lennox unit and his repairs have been $3,000. The reason I know this is because I offered to buy his house only to put that pump out of it"s misery. The latest compressor is so loud that I have to turn my tv up to drown it out. It runs constantly. The heating contractor just smiles when he talks about how often he works on heat pumps. He'll have job security and a good wage for as long as they sell them here.
Yes there are systems like that around here as well.
Deal with an installer that knows what he is doing and a brand that is up to par.
Carrier seems to be the best on the market right now for noise and efficency.
We have one installer here uses a cheaper compressor to try to get the bid and you will pay for it in the long run.
My compressor sets seperately from the fan and aframe. That way the noise from compressor under the fan does not get pumped through the house, like a single unit system does, by the fan.
All I hear is the low speed fan on mine.
Gary
Deal with an installer that knows what he is doing and a brand that is up to par.
Carrier seems to be the best on the market right now for noise and efficency.
We have one installer here uses a cheaper compressor to try to get the bid and you will pay for it in the long run.
My compressor sets seperately from the fan and aframe. That way the noise from compressor under the fan does not get pumped through the house, like a single unit system does, by the fan.
All I hear is the low speed fan on mine.
Gary
Ken Macfarlane
Well-known Member
Better get a better HVAC tech, they last much better when installed correctly.
RamblinMan
Member
It"s not the tech, the technology. I have talked to three of the best HVAC companies in the business. Funny, none of them have heat pumps in their homes
My daughter lives in the Indy area and she has a heat pump. It makes a crazy noise ever time it starts and shuts down. She keeps her house between 66 and 68 degress. This cold snape they just had she said it had trouble holding temp. She also told me what her electric bill was and it was higher than my baseboard heat and our houses are about the same size and she lives 135 miles south of were I live.
To specifically answer your question, a typical electric heating baseboard has a capillary tube running it"s full length, as part of a temp limit switch that is supposed to cut the power to the entire heater if ANY section of it gets extra hot due to lack of air circulation in that area.
That being said, in my limited experience, I can immediately think of 3 incidents I personally know of in which things didn"t work as designed... in one situation, folks returned home and found their drapes that were hanging over an electric baseboard smoldering, in another case a neighbor had her son and friends home for the weekend waterfowl hunting and they woke up to a screaming smoke detector... a canvas duffel had got shoved against an electric baseboard and began smoldering during the night.
The third incident was a plastic laundry basket my folks had in the bathroom of their apartment... It was against a short electric baseboard and the plastic "webbing" got melted all to heck by the baseboard.
I still have that basket (as a good bad example), and will try to remember to take a picture of it tomorrow and post it.
After those incidents, I really don"t trust electric baseboards.
The house we live in originally had under-slab heat beneath the lower level which failed before we bought it and electric baseboards were installed.
I have removed them and put hydronic baseboards in the main area of the lower level, and electric cove heaters in two bedrooms and two baths. They mount high on the wall and eliminate any chance of furniture, drapes, rugs, clothing, or fabric items coming into contact with them and melting or igniting if the safety thermostats fail.
<img src = "http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/27Grainfield/Stuff/bb_zps69ef738e.jpg">
Snipet of a textbook that explains the linear thermostat
That being said, in my limited experience, I can immediately think of 3 incidents I personally know of in which things didn"t work as designed... in one situation, folks returned home and found their drapes that were hanging over an electric baseboard smoldering, in another case a neighbor had her son and friends home for the weekend waterfowl hunting and they woke up to a screaming smoke detector... a canvas duffel had got shoved against an electric baseboard and began smoldering during the night.
The third incident was a plastic laundry basket my folks had in the bathroom of their apartment... It was against a short electric baseboard and the plastic "webbing" got melted all to heck by the baseboard.
I still have that basket (as a good bad example), and will try to remember to take a picture of it tomorrow and post it.
After those incidents, I really don"t trust electric baseboards.
The house we live in originally had under-slab heat beneath the lower level which failed before we bought it and electric baseboards were installed.
I have removed them and put hydronic baseboards in the main area of the lower level, and electric cove heaters in two bedrooms and two baths. They mount high on the wall and eliminate any chance of furniture, drapes, rugs, clothing, or fabric items coming into contact with them and melting or igniting if the safety thermostats fail.
<img src = "http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/27Grainfield/Stuff/bb_zps69ef738e.jpg">
Snipet of a textbook that explains the linear thermostat
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