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Whichester1
Member
Can you add a second heater? One in the coolant and a second in the oil pan?
fixerupper
Well-known Member
If you leave it run all night you'll be worrying about it instead of sleeping. The other guy's idea of a tarp and heat lamp is a good one. You'd be surprised how warm a heat lamp can keep things if the heat is trapped under something. Jim
Zachary Hoyt
Well-known Member
I would be a little concerned to leave it running unattended in case something happened to it and you weren't there to shut it down.
Zach
Zach
I"d say that the amount of "harm" done would pretty much equal out over time unless you were doing a -10 start every day. I say this because most "harm" to an engine is done on startup due the components moving against each other with little to no oil pressure. That said cold starts typically cause a longer than normal lag in getting oil pressure up due the thickness of the oil caused by the low temps, and as a result would cause more "harm" than your usual warm weather starts.
That said, leaving it running all night at an idle will also cause the usual running wear "harm" you"d expect in normal operation. Now wether the amount of wear "harm" cause will be more, less, or equal to the amount cause by numerous could starts I couldn"t say.
I guess the main thing would be that the engine is able to maintain a normal operating temp while idling all night. If that"s possible them what I said above would apply. If it"s to cold outside and the engine won"t maintain normal operating temp at an idle, with no load, then it will more than likely cause it to "wet stack", putting oil into the exhaust. That"s not a good thing and is something that is considered harmful to an engine. So, if the potential to wet stack is there, then the potential for harm at an idle would be, in my opinion, greater than if it wasn"t.
I know in the Arctic I"ve read and heard that it"s common practice to leave their machines running for days on end. In the trucking world it used to be very common to leave the trucks running overnight, at an idle, just to keep the heat or A/C running. In fact I had a customer call me tonight and asked about leaving his truck running tonight so it would be ready to go in the morning, given that he couldn"t get it going this morning when it was 8 degrees outside.
In the end I think beyond the whole potential to wet stack deal is about the biggest concern I"d have. So, baring that, ultimately, I think the biggest deciding factor on whether or let it idle, or not, is how critical it is to have it running first thing the next morning, as "harm" wise I think most other factors all come out as a wash in the end.
That said, leaving it running all night at an idle will also cause the usual running wear "harm" you"d expect in normal operation. Now wether the amount of wear "harm" cause will be more, less, or equal to the amount cause by numerous could starts I couldn"t say.
I guess the main thing would be that the engine is able to maintain a normal operating temp while idling all night. If that"s possible them what I said above would apply. If it"s to cold outside and the engine won"t maintain normal operating temp at an idle, with no load, then it will more than likely cause it to "wet stack", putting oil into the exhaust. That"s not a good thing and is something that is considered harmful to an engine. So, if the potential to wet stack is there, then the potential for harm at an idle would be, in my opinion, greater than if it wasn"t.
I know in the Arctic I"ve read and heard that it"s common practice to leave their machines running for days on end. In the trucking world it used to be very common to leave the trucks running overnight, at an idle, just to keep the heat or A/C running. In fact I had a customer call me tonight and asked about leaving his truck running tonight so it would be ready to go in the morning, given that he couldn"t get it going this morning when it was 8 degrees outside.
In the end I think beyond the whole potential to wet stack deal is about the biggest concern I"d have. So, baring that, ultimately, I think the biggest deciding factor on whether or let it idle, or not, is how critical it is to have it running first thing the next morning, as "harm" wise I think most other factors all come out as a wash in the end.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Years ago it was common to leave a big rig running all the time due to that problem. Now days big rigs can start up on there own when it gets below X temp. If all is right letting it run is fine but if something odd happens that can also mean a big problem
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
why?? what is -10 ? do you think that places that get down to -35 worry about it. just plug it in start it up and let it warm up before using it and it will be just fine. IF you did your pre winter service it will be just fine. we had -27 this morning and my little old to-20 Ferguson that sits under just a roof started with just a 6 volt battery let it warm up for 15+ minn. and went and cut some wood
4020deereboy
Member
We get 35 and 4o below and never had problems maybe if it was life and death the cows had to be fed and you had no way to plug it in or charge the batteries
Id leave it run .
Id leave it run .
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
Unlike generators and irrigation pumps, etc, tractors don't have fail safe engine monitoring systems that shut down the engine if something goes wrong.
I would not do it.
I would not do it.
Tom OConnor
Member
Last week I let a little JD 1070 run 5 days 24-7 on a generator during the ice storm. Other than refueling every day you didn't know the power was off. I wouldn't worry about it either way you choose. Years ago I ran a 730 Diesel every fall nearly 30 days 24-7 on a grain dryer. It never failed me and it never seemed to hurt it a bit.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Feller I know went to north B.C. and let his f250 gas welding truck run all winter 24/7. Needed the valves done.He traded it away.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
How warm do you think it needs to be? As long as it starts OK and oil pressure comes up, that should be good enough. Letting a diesel engine idle for several hours isn't a great idea.
The trucking industry tells drivers that 1 hour of idle time on a Diesel engine produces as much engine wear as 8 hours of driving time. It's alright with me if you want to overhaul your engine by spring, but I wouldn't let it idle overnight. You could probably build a shed for it for less money than a complete engine overhaul.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Running under load is one thing . Idling is another.
Bob Bancroft
Well-known Member
- Location
- Aurora NY
This talk of "wet stacking" and idling jogged a memory. We first ran Dad's three point hitch backhoe with gas tractors. Later, as diesels became predominant, we used them. Seems like more than once, and maybe with different tractors, we ended up with crud oozing out from the manifold/muffler connection. This would have been in fairly decent(warm) weather, tractor engines running up to operating temp., about 1500 RPM. Clearly then, there wasn't enough heat to burn all the fuel. So, how an engine could idle, even at say, 1000 RPM, for several hours, in frigid weather, without gumming up, I don't know!
My Ford 655A TLB doesn't do this. Maybe the engine is enough smaller, and the hyd. pump is enough bigger, that there's enough more load on it that it burns clean?
My Ford 655A TLB doesn't do this. Maybe the engine is enough smaller, and the hyd. pump is enough bigger, that there's enough more load on it that it burns clean?
nybadlybent
Member
I believe the cost of the fuel would make the idea of running contine.uly prohibitive. Your much better to buy an engine block heater and plug it in a couple of hours before starting the tractor. Throw an old blanket over the tractor and it will help keep the heat in
showcrop
Well-known Member
Modern trucks computers are now usually set to either go to high idle or shut off after a certain length of time and/or a certain temperature. Wet stacking not only means a wet exhaust stack but also crankcase oil diluted with fuel, so if you decide to do it as 504 said, bump the throttle up some, and also reduce the oil change interval.
Block heater will be just fine.
Diesels don't generate much heat unless they're being worked. Plus it's a colossal waste of fuel. Plus it's going to be irritating listening to the tractor drone all night long. If that doesn't keep you up, worrying about the tractor all night will.
Diesels don't generate much heat unless they're being worked. Plus it's a colossal waste of fuel. Plus it's going to be irritating listening to the tractor drone all night long. If that doesn't keep you up, worrying about the tractor all night will.
Is it "very cold" or is it 10 below? One factor nobody else has mentioned, if -10 is "very cold" for you than you are probably not running the same wt. oils as those of us in colder climates.
If -10 is expected, I would just provide some heat and start it as needed (heat lamp and tarp as mentioned, block heater, oil pan heater, tank heater, whatever you can get to work for you). That, along with the correct winter weight oils and you should be good even for much cooler temps.
If -10 is "Oh my Gosh, it's never been this cold before and probably won't be again" it's probably not worth the effort to get set up for a real winter and may be worth running it overnight.
Personally, I wouldn't run it overnight unless I was entirely out of other options.
If -10 is expected, I would just provide some heat and start it as needed (heat lamp and tarp as mentioned, block heater, oil pan heater, tank heater, whatever you can get to work for you). That, along with the correct winter weight oils and you should be good even for much cooler temps.
If -10 is "Oh my Gosh, it's never been this cold before and probably won't be again" it's probably not worth the effort to get set up for a real winter and may be worth running it overnight.
Personally, I wouldn't run it overnight unless I was entirely out of other options.
Ken Macfarlane
Well-known Member
Shut it down, unless you have the rad blocked and curtains on the engine it won't get warm at idle. And once you wrap the engine like that a block heater works much better. If needed get a circulating coolant heater - you can get really good ones that will heat an engine in 30 min at -30 if out o the wind.
As long as you have a decent sized working block heater, shut the engine down. Cold idling for long periods does them no good. On the other hand... if you have no electricity and you're going to need the tractor... then I'd let it idle. Had to do that the other night here for about 8 hours... That was better than feeding blow to a cold engine.
Rod
Rod
Preferable to use a block heater or tank heater but when you say "very cold" do you mean -45 or 0? If it will be very cold as in -45, leave it run. That'll keep the trans/hyd fluid warmer and you surely won't have any problems starting because the engine will already be running. Germans left their diesel engines running on the eastern front from November thru March. Just added fuel and oil. Didn't hurt a thing. Likewise with equipment in Alaska going back a few years.
rdandersom
Member
I remember my Dad talking about a construction crew clearing woodlot for a new housing development years ago.All the equipment used the old IH start on gas diesels.Twice every night the watchman went around and opened the throttles on each machine and let them roar for about 1/2 an hour to burn off any unburned fuel in them.A good block heater is the way to go.Idling is probably better than starting on ether in my opinion.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I would plug it in . You can purchase a timer and give it 2 hours of heat , I'm sure it will start and eliminate wear on the starter and battery .
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I'm tempted to drain my oil and store it in doors next to the oil tank in doors where its 75 degrees thanks to the wood stove. See if that has any effect on cranking speed. Might bring the batteries in as well.
Have you tried pouring 15W40 oil when its minus anything out side? It comes out like honey or molasses. Has to slow the engine cranking speeds down.
I'd go with the block heater and point the nose of the tractor South-East or downwind.
Have you tried pouring 15W40 oil when its minus anything out side? It comes out like honey or molasses. Has to slow the engine cranking speeds down.
I'd go with the block heater and point the nose of the tractor South-East or downwind.
I worked on a big horse farm, over 300 horses at the time, they had 3 tractors they left running all night, 2 dident have block heaters, and 1 a ford 1900 the engine was so shot it wouldent start back up after running it for 3 hours in 70 degree weather in May, one if my jobs was to fill them up with fuel before I left at 9pm. Only good thing was there were 3 shifts, so people were around all night and used 2 of the tractors, bringing in shavings, hay and straw to the barns. They only did this for a few weeks or so in real cold weather, finally they had block heaters put on the 2, the 1900 stayed running from January to May, I can't saw it hurt the engines, but I dident think it was a good idea. The manager did complain about going threw so much fuel thought. It was kinda erie coming out of one of the barns in the dark and hearing the tractors idling a distance away. I still remember that.
an update.
It was -10ish last night. I could have plugged it in and kept the engine warm. I had it parked out of the wind. It does have a cab and loader so tarping it could have been done but I didn't have one big enough.
I was more concerned about the hydraulic system (since I could have plugged in the engine).
I let it run.
I had been using it last night, the temperature of the engine was the same this morning. I suspect it used about a galloon of fuel.
thanks
Hound
It was -10ish last night. I could have plugged it in and kept the engine warm. I had it parked out of the wind. It does have a cab and loader so tarping it could have been done but I didn't have one big enough.
I was more concerned about the hydraulic system (since I could have plugged in the engine).
I let it run.
I had been using it last night, the temperature of the engine was the same this morning. I suspect it used about a galloon of fuel.
thanks
Hound
Aaron Ford
Well-known Member
I tore into a Thermoking diesel with intentions of building a genset. It was too far gone with the liners corroded and the valves rusted away. What I noticed on teardown was that someone had a lot of problems with this engine running hot. The thermostat being gone and the water pump new led me to this assumption. The real problem was that number 2 and 3 exhaust passages were nearly plugged. Both had pencil sized openings but were for all intents, plugged. It took forever to clean that hardened crud out. I suppose it had to do with the engine being run with a light load for extended periods. I had never seen an engine do this but never seen one idled for long periods either.
Aaron
Aaron
I have a hard time with idling wearing it out more that runing it down the road. I just sold a IHC 9200 that had a M11 Cummins in it. It had 978000 miles. I never shut it off from the time I left home till I came back home. That meant it idled quite a few nights. winter and summer. And waited in line for hours at a time.
MARK ROBKE
Well-known Member
The reason in the old days for leaving trucks running all night was the batteries were not as powerful as modern batteries leading to slow cranking. Below 10* block heaters are the way to go, easier on the cranking system and the engine. We used to go around the yard and rev them up ocasionaly when we let them run; there was always a cloud of smoke over the lot! Mark
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