OT... Stupid automotive engineering vs hick mulcanicks

Bob · Jan 4, 2014

My son's boss's daughter drives a 2001 GM car with the horrible Passlock system that has left her stranded several times and cost $$ tows and $$$$ to "repair" at the stealership.

He drove it to work the other day (45 miles from the stealership) and the system failed again, rendering the car inoperable.

He was wondering if we could get him going or if he needed to buy ANOTHER $$$ tow, and spend more $$$$ at the stealership.

Since we live in a low-risk area for auto theft, and no one in their right mind would steal that %^&#%$ thing ANYWAY, we had a solution.

About 15 minutes of time and $100.00 for "credits" to HP Tuners later, the car's powertrain 'puter has been permanently instructed to IGNORE theft warnings, bogus or otherwise, from the "body control module", and obey the owner's command to START and HOPEFULLY won't leave them stranded AGAIN!

I can understand why theft prevention is a BIG issue in some areas, but, where we are, being the legitimate owner, with the legitimate key, and getting stranded in -60º windchill conditions by a poorly thought out "nanny" system is a BIGGER issue!

This MAY help some others that are fighting with the same issue.

Anonymous-0 · Jan 4, 2014

2001 just hope somebody steals it

Bob · Jan 4, 2014

Back in the early 80's my wife's sister had some ungodly VW wagon thing and actually had a bumper sticker that read "answer my prayers and steal this car"!

It NEVER happened and they'd have had to tow it 'cuz it was unlikely it would start at any given time!

(It was a semi-mechanical Bosch FI system, and no one up here on the tundra knew much about it, ASSUMING it was actually designed to work!)

Goose · Jan 4, 2014

Usually when the microchip fails, if you simply wait 3 minutes with the ignition off and try again, the computer will override the pass key system it will start right up.

It was designed that way on the theory that if the pass key system deterred a thief, the thief wouldn't wait around several minutes for another try.

It won't leave you stranded. It's spelled out in the owner's manual. All you have to do is read the manual.

Bob · Jan 4, 2014

"It won"t leave you stranded. It"s spelled out in the owner"s manual. All you have to do is read the manual."

NICE comment!

We WERE aware of all that. Didn"t work, though, after MULTIPLE tries of cycling the system in a certain pattern, then waiting ten minutes.

Plus we GOOGLED it and tried several other things suggested on the "net.

And I don"t mind telling you none of us involved enjoyed messing around like that, in sub-zero weather!

Remember, this car has had these problems MANY times over YEARS, and throwing $$$$ at it to officially "repair" it never solved the problem.

I"m GUESSING that may be why a quick internet search turns up hundreds of thousands of issues/complaints with this system.

BTW, NO chip in the key, that"s VATS. This Passlock system uses a sensor on the lock cylinder that detects speed/motion of the lock cylinder as it should be (with the key) vs. a bit different if it is being "picked", then makes a decision if it"s OK for the fuel injectors to function, or not.

whizkidkyus · Jan 4, 2014

Bob ,

Is this the same Bob from either North or South Dakota that always like to " torment " me a couple of years ago when I first joined this board ?

Whizkid

GordoSD · Jan 4, 2014

I'd solve the problem in a heartbeat. He should drive his car.

Bob · Jan 4, 2014

Whizzy, while we perhaps got off to a bad start (which I'm sure was at least 90% MY fault), it seems to me we had some good and helpful exchanges later on. You got an issue with me, feel free to email me, [email protected]!

whizkidkyus · Jan 4, 2014

Bob ,

I never said that I had an issue with you !!!! I was just wondering if it was you . You seemed to have disappeared there for a while . While I admit that at first I didn't know how to take you , but later on we seemed to have a couple of helpful post for each other . You even told me one time yourself that it was all in fun later on .

Whizkid

whizkidkyus · Jan 4, 2014

Like the old saying about computers . Those things are only as smart as the people who design and build them .

Whizkid

Also, a lot of times those " new car designers " bigwigs don't know how much trouble those system in the cars that the design are as they are driven around by chauffeured limos and when they do have car problems they have the money to pay someone else to fix them . Better yet , they get new cars every year so they don't have problems as their cars never get used long enough to have problems.

David G · Jan 4, 2014

I appreciate you posting this to inform us, but the guy should get his butt kicked for letting his daughter drive this car when it has issues. It is way past time to get rid of it.

tiresntracks · Jan 4, 2014

People that have money to burn can probably buy their kids new cars whenever they have a problem. Most of us can't, so we have to repair what we have. The daughter should be (and probably is) grateful to have a car to drive.

bison · Jan 4, 2014

(quoted from post at 15:39:03 01/04/14) My son's boss's daughter drives a 2001 GM car with the horrible Passlock system that has left her stranded several times and cost $$ tows and $$$$ to "repair" at the stealership.

He drove it to work the other day (45 miles from the stealership) and the system failed again, rendering the car inoperable.

He was wondering if we could get him going or if he needed to buy ANOTHER $$$ tow, and spend more $$$$ at the stealership.

Since we live in a low-risk area for auto theft, and no one in their right mind would steal that %^&#%$ thing ANYWAY, we had a solution.

About 15 minutes of time and $100.00 for "credits" to HP Tuners later, the car's powertrain 'puter has been permanently instructed to IGNORE theft warnings, bogus or otherwise, from the "body control module", and obey the owner's command to START and HOPEFULLY won't leave them stranded AGAIN!

I can understand why theft prevention is a BIG issue in some areas, but, where we are, being the legitimate owner, with the legitimate key, and getting stranded in -60º windchill conditions by a poorly thought out "nanny" system is a BIGGER issue!

This MAY help some others that are fighting with the same issue.

e know he/she'they can reset the passlock herself, its a simple procedure that takes turning key on and off a couple times (can't remember the procedure, I have it written down somewhere).
It can also be disabled if one wants.

Sprint 6 · Jan 4, 2014

All it takes to bypass that system is a $2 resistor and an hour. No need for fancy tuners.

Hoenes · Jan 4, 2014

Bob,
There is a 2-wire harness that runs parallel to the main ignition harness. Cut the yellow wire, while the engine is running. Passlock- gone for good! (It's been awhile, so double check on chevyforums.com)

504 · Jan 4, 2014

My brother is a locksmith and some of these are easy, and some take hours to reprogram and start like they should. Just wait till you see the new style(they have been around for a while)side cut keys that GM has gone to. I believe he said his new key cutter is on sale for $2,200.00, keys should be about $50.00 each.

oldtanker · Jan 4, 2014

And just how is HP Tuner hick? Darn sure wasn't a hick that figured that out. It was some tech geeks working with and engineer or 2.

Nope a hick fix to that would be to haul it to the scrapper and buy and old ratty pickup without all that computer junk on it.

Rick

Bob · Jan 5, 2014

Yep, Sprint you are CORRECT ("til reality sets in)!
(DAMN, WHY is everything posted here torn apart by folks that run their mouth off before researching what is actually going on?

Bob · Jan 5, 2014

Dave, I'm not sure what the economic realities are in your area, but things NOT so that SWELL here that every kid can have a new vehicle.

The point is that the car in question has low miles and has NO issues 'cept the stupid antitheft system failure.

That's a SORRY excuse to throw it away!

ShadetreeRet · Jan 5, 2014

Those early VW FI systems were nothing but crap! My Dad bought a VW wagon that had factory FI, and someone had installed an intake manifold and carburetor on it.Only problem was, the carb stuck up into the luggage compartment, and you couldn't use the floor panel cover. But it was cheap transportation.

Bob · Jan 5, 2014

That MAY work, 'til the battery goes dead, or is replaced, re-opening the can of worms/no start.

Using HP or other software takes care of it for good.

Bob · Jan 5, 2014

Shade, THANKS for posting that memory!

It's hard to believe how far we have come since then!

(Even when the otherwise quite efficient and reliable GM system "locks out" a legitimate owner/driver!)

Sprint 6 · Jan 5, 2014

What is actually going on is the voltage drop across the Hall Effect sensor in the lock cylinder is not consistant. Installing a 2.2kOhm resistor between the BCM 5 volt out and security return will provide a constant voltage drop. 30 minute relearn and you are done. As you can see, I have researched what is going on and have fixed several this way. The one caveat is, if the car in question is an Impala or Monte Carlo, a failing ignition switch can mimic the same problem because one circuit on the switch drops supply voltage to the BCM. I was not ripping on your repair, just telling you how I do it. The resistor trick works on GM trucks, and all cars with the Passlock system.

JML755 · Jan 5, 2014

Just a comment in general on Automotive engineering. I've worked for many years as a supplier to carmakers on various pieces of equipment required to build cars. In doing so, I've interfaced with engineers from most mfrs. So I've noted a few things: It is amazing to me how fast "new technology" can make it into the production vehicles. Some of it is vetted well. Other times, it's "senior mgmnt wants this on the new xxxx". It's a fast paced process and components are routinely being debugged while the prototype builds (hundreds of vehicles) are moving down the line. I've also participated in lots of FMEAs that are supposed to protect the consumer from just what Bob is describing. These are formalized "what if" processes. The "lean" OEMs also don't have the engineering manpower they once had. They rely heavily on contract labor and their in-house engineers often aren't doing the engineering anyway. They're monitoring suppliers who are actually crunching the numbers, coming up with the ideas/solutions, designing the circuits, etc.

This is why I won't buy a "new" model in general where the automakers have changed more than just the body trim. Give it a year or two to get the bugs worked out. I figure that if EVERY new model that I have worked on has significant problems in some area of the vehicle, I'm assuming that I'm not just an "unlucky" guy.

:lol: :lol:

Hoenes · Jan 5, 2014

I was concerned about the "battery issue" also, when I fixed my wife's Grand Am. It did,t effect anything the time I had a dead battery. The day I cut the wire, I ran a wire from each end of the yellow wire to the bottom of the dash, with a toggle switch on the end, just in case I ever had to re-activate the system. Never had to.

Bob · Jan 5, 2014

Trouble is, the resistor trick DOESN"T work IF there is a wiring or body control module issue, which is what the Gm shop suspected the last time they tried to fix it. The lock housing HAS been replaces, and the connector checked/cleaned.

What we did REMOVES all those parts from the equation, because the engine computer no longer looks for the faulty info from the BCM.

OT... Stupid automotive engineering vs hick mulcanicks

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