Follow up on getting the son's prepared!!!

After we got the electric back in service on the rented farm I had a chance to get all three of the youngest sons together.

We went over what need to be done ASAP and what needed to be done longer term. Some of this was a surprise to me. They just did not have the whole picture in any of their minds.

1) The older son did not think about how deadly the cold/snowy weather could be on livestock.

2) He also did not "get" the seriousness of heavy cattle being without water. Luckily it was not summer. The least little thing can throw fat cattle off and make them finish slower. I always tried to feed on a real rigid schedule also.

3) The youngest needed to think about how his actions effect everyone around him. The generator issue cost me and my one son a half day of labor. That is a loss of a measurable amount.

4) They all needed to think about WHY I have those generators. I do not just throw money around for "EXTRA" stuff for the fun of it. Many things are for emergencies. I asked them how it would have been if their homes had been without electric when it was below zero out side?

5) The youngest got to see the cost first hand on not watching how he does things. There are two working generators in place tonight. That cost him about 3K to do it on short notice but he CAUSED that short notice. I think he will THINK before using/loaning anything else out.

6) The other son needed to assert himself more in the day to day stuff. He was allowing his "educated" brother to "manage" him. HE has a better day to day out look/plan.

7) All three need to think as a group not as one boss and two employees. NONE of them have the experience to be "boss". They all know PARTS of the operation well but not all of it.

8) I needed to show them the "why" of some things. We spent some time this afternoon writing down some "check lists" of things to do everyday, week, month. Example: Check the waterers daily, the generators weekly, The oil levels on the silo unloaders once each month. We came up with pages of this type of stuff. Things that I have always told them to do when it was needed. I thought they would have put 2+2 together and done them on their own. They all have done the actual work but none of them remembered when to do it. The son that had the rough day yesterday was great at organizing this. Told him so too.


HE asked me what had PO me so much when we got the PTO generator going. I told him the setting on his butt in the cab PLAYING on his smart phone while the generator was not doing what we wanted /needed done. He tried to defend the "playing" on his smart phone comment. He "says" he was checking the weather. LOL I told him we did not need to know anything else about the weather right then. It was COLDER than heck and going to be colder than heck for awhile.

The funny thing is how the times have changed. The older two of them set down and started to setup schedules of some of the stuff. IN THEIR smart phones. LMAO I would have grabbed a calender and wrote it down.

The youngest is steamed at his friend right now. HE says that his friend cost him $2K. LOL. His reasoning is that the friend should "help" out on the cost of the generator. (Finding a 10K one on short notice was not cheap) I told him to sell one of them to his "friend" to recover some of his money. I think he will find his friend is not that good of a friend. More like a BROKE blood sucker. He does not have many friends that can help him with much. It is usually the other way around. Them sponging off of him/me.

So it will be intersting to see what they learned and will remember.

I especially enjoyed the part about the son checking the weather on the smart phone. To be really smart, just open the freaking cab door for an idea of what the weather is like. Deal with the immediate issue and the future will be secure. It is good to see how you guide them.....and there"s no magic age when things click for each one. I enjoy watching our 3 sons work together on projects, and their 3 sisters as well. They are all friends!

Youngest daughter- the paratrooper, on her Stanford application, was asked to describe her siblings. She said, I know that any one of them would be there......to bail me out of jail!

jd ,, you are rite on target to raisin Great Americans,, too make sure you are ALWAYS "JUST " you mite look in the middle of b ible occassionaly .... ps alms and proverbs give peace and wisdom,, the book of sirach and kings deserve study as well,,. but ,, judging from your heavy loads you have carried ,, you mite already know all about this ,, Merr y Ch ri stmas , To You and Your Family

Somehow, I don't think my brother would be there to bail me out of jail. He'd prob'ly be trying to cut a deal with the prosecutor for a reduced sentence if he testifies against me.

LOL! Three years ago we put the farm in a family trust. The lawyer was amazed. He said, You have six kids, and they all like each other, and still talk to each other? Yes, we have been blessed. It really is fun to watch them work together. Everyone has a "job" in the estate plan and we have no doubt that it will go well. The lawyer did include a provision that anyone who objects to our plan is eliminated from benefits, but we don"t anticipate that anyone will.

couple of cartoons 2 farmers talking one telling the other i told my son someday this well be yours and i havnt seen him since!
2 nd good one sell your farm to your kids when there 18 at that age they have all the answers.
i raised my niece and nephew on 2 thoughts praise often and complain rairly 2 nd from the bible be not afraid to disipline a child for the life you save may be there own it took me a while to learn the real meaning of that it means the displine to get things done and the life means flippin burgers or being the boss at a good paying job

Good for you!
As I read your post I got to thinking "JD learned something too".
You can't assume they're picking it up.

I never had kids cause I got married too late, or so I thought, but had enough "employees" that were old enough/young enough to be my kids. We'd go on a job and I would just do things that Dad taught me or I learned from experience and look around to catch them looking at me with a funny expression. Realize they just didn't understand so it became teaching time. Usually I would just start talking about why I was doing whatever it was while I was doing it. Sometimes that doesn't work and, as you did, talk later.

Good for you!

JD, I've read your posts with interest, as I have three adult stepsons who are dedicated to learning everything the hard way. Sometimes it seems to take them multiple lessons at the school of hard knocks before they get the message. I am a bit surprised, though, that your sons could grow up working with livestock and not understand the importance of getting water to animals in the winter.

Education, particularly at the School of Hard Knocks is expensive!!!

This is like a soap opera, "Days of Our Lives" the never ending saga lol. Keep up the good work, God Bless you and yours and have a Merry Christmas

Ol John T in Indiana

This is a normal transition from one generation to the next in my opinion.You stated they have done all the tasks previously but never knew what time to do them because they relied on you,as the boss,to tell them when.I believe after your meeting they will step it up but will probably make a few errors along the way which should be expected.Give it time and keep empowering them and it usually all works out if they really want it. I watched the same thing with my wife and her father when he transitioned out of the daily running of their family business.He still has the final say on all major decisions just like you will as the farm is yours baby.


JMHO

Have a Merry Christmas

Vito

Right on target JD! There will be more rough spots but if you will keep on talking they will keep learning how much you do. Merry Christmas to All! Ain't God Good!

The worst professors were the ones that thought the class already knew the material and were just there for a refresher.

A couple of thoughts....
Can't get the work done with the nose stuck in a "smart" phone. Not so "smart" after all???
Should use the electronics as an aid, not as a crutch. Never depend on electronics for the important things.
We become too dependent on the gadgets and then lose the ability to operate without them. Time to re-introduce some of the good old fashioned methods of getting things done.

John T: I am writing about this for several reasons.

1) I like story telling and thought some of you would find interest in what was going on.

2) I think many of us on here either are going through this or will be in the future. So the mistakes and assumptions that I an the boys make MIGHT help some others.

Merry Christmas!!!!!

Learning curve, can you imagine if the proverbial shite hit the fan and there was something happening a lot worse that in it was ? That experience would "learn ya", your sons in that case. I know the routine, at home and or at the other place with all the horses, water is precious when the power is out and you have no gen set.

Personally, I highly respect someone who is prepared, in advance, because they think ahead, with a contingent mindset about their back up plan. It saves you work, provides relief and keeps you safe, sometimes people in general let human instinct take over and wait til the last minute when things are super critical, just not good policy, the learning curve is just one event, most will make changes after dealing with a serious problem like a power outage.

At home I have solar battery back up, behind that is my NT251 Miller welder /8.5 K generator, which is also available to our farm if the power will be out for an extended time, and its not my responsibility but when I worked there, I tried to stay prepared on a personal level mostly because it would save me a lot of work just being able to pump water.

At home we had a nice outage when the temps were in the teens, ice storm '08, that certainly reinforced a few things on preparedness, now have back up power and back up beyond that to charge the batteries, no worry at all, let the power go out. I will say for that event, I had 2 cord of 2yr seasoned wood, stashed aside, and I had initially fixed up my wood stove for that purpose, 2nd source of heat now I use it often, that heat from it on that bitter cold day, with no power literally saved the day, had my elderly mother to look after and a house to keep pipes from freezing. Things changed after that event.

Mark HE did know that he needed to watch but not the order of importance. To me it is like this:

1)Water
2) feed
3) shelter

He had them in good bedding and had fed them but was not in a big hurry on the water. HE had actually seen that the electric was down at 6 AM. He did not go to turn the generator on until 9 ish. HE did not call me until 10:30-11. This time delay was the issue with me. I did not get them water until after 12. That was too long for me. There was a lot of shoving at the tanks. We where lucky that none of them got hurt fighting for water. That worries me as much as them getting knocked of feed.

With the feed cost what they are right now , you may only make $100-150 clear profit per head. Each one will sell for $1500-1600. So lose one and it takes ten or more to get back to even.

They need to think real hard on how tight the margins are in farming most of the time. There are usually no home runs, just little singles. It is a dollar here and there saved/spent that add up to a profit or loss.

JD-, as an outsider, it appears you are grooming your sons to take over in the future. If I may comment, would a "management meeting", once a month be of any value? Possibly a breakfast meeting, discussing what worked/didn't work last month and discussions about next month to help give some direction. Sounds like each of your sons have different strengths, possibly each works in that area of the farm? If I'm out of line, I'm sorry but feel communication helps clear up a lot of future problems.

My Dad had a real temper, but the thing that would really set him off was finding out that the livestock didn't have water available.

He grew up in the horse era and the cattle kept us through the depression of the 30's. The livestock had top priority over everything else.

I think you have found out why so many large farms fall apart after the patriarch dies. I have seen a few farms that just fell apart, and tore the families apart with them. I think you are well on your way to the farm surviving another generation. Not only are you running a successful farming operation, but I think you realize that stepping aside at times will help the operation in the future. How does that saying go...first you drive them..then you sit along side as they drive..then you let them drive on their own..

Transitioning farms is quite often watching a slow motion train wreck.
My uncle was going to turn things over to his son,and was going to, and was going to and was going to. Always seemed that just one more thing needed to be learned or Dad"s opinion outweighed the young opinion.

Finally my cousin had had enough and bought 60 acres of an adjoining farm that Dad had no say in and started his own.

My Grandfather stepped up and grabbed his son by the scruff of the neck and told him he had one year to complete the transaction or he would throw his support onto the new farm.

5 years later my cousin is firmly in charge of both farms, my uncle is a managing employee of the farm and all is well.
Sometimes it is hard for the father to see that just because it is not his way, it does not mean it is the wrong way!

Your sons can learn all that stuff by watching you and letting you yell at them when they screw up...........or you can teach them, a little every day, set operation rules, explain your management strategy, make them part of the team.

The fathers often have a "this is the way I do it..and by gxx you will too....OR you can rationally go through the logic of how you do it, listen to new ideas and define the operating principles of your operation.

Your choice.

I've seen it a hundred times in inherited businesses. Some transitioned well, many fell apart.

Sometimes you have to ask the question....if this guy was not my son, would I be grooming him to run my business?

My brother and I was talking the other day about how dad always told to go do things, but never told us why or what planning he had in mind to do it that way. I do remember though that if you was not out helping do the chores you would be out there in short order with a boot up your a$$ every step you took. After every meal the famous say was (Come on boys lets go). When mom brought him his hot coffee we better be on the last bit.

JD I find your story very interesting.

How old are they?

Very good writing, now if these boys are married, best wives
are involved in operation, at least to these meeting, at least twice
a month, I am sure every one wishes the best of luck, to you and
your operation, Their is nothing better than family cooperation

I'm have the same discussion with my two sons on a smaller scale (only 10 head of cattle). The other difference is they are 11 and 13 years old.

I find it interesting that you are having this conversation when your sons are in the 30's.
I got that lesson when I was 10.
I am not knocking you or the situation, just stating a fact.

Did your sons have any ideas and positive input, or was it all just one sided?

When I got enough rank in the Marine Corps to be put in a position of leadership, one of the first things I learned was that, contrary to my colleagues who thought they were supposed to know it all, if you take time to listen to your Privates, Corporals, and Sergeants, you not only hear some dammed good ideas, you meet some interesting people. And then you need to give credit where credit is due.

I once raised a Major's eyebrows by commenting that if a Buck Private on mess duty could give me a tip that would help me solve a problem, I was all for it.

Managing family issues works a lot the same way.

The flip side of the coin will come someday so you have to be prepared for that also. By that I mean the sons will have learned your skills and some of their own hopefully and want to implement them into the operation. At that time you will have to be able to step back and let them do it their own way or risk losing them to another profession. Been there done that. It don't get any easier.

Putting on Grownup clothes and having the responsibility sink in to the bone is a delight, and a pain in the Proverbial Donkey. Jim

we all been thru this or will be going thru it. did you do everything the correct way when you were growing up. looks like 3 youngest sons ideas are only if it matches dads exactly. the only correct way is dads way. don't take this against you by any means its just that just because its your way of doing things is NOT only ways things get done or can be done. Looks like when they get older you are going to have some real issues. i been their done hat and like has already been said if its always your way they will leave in you will have al kinds time to do it your way. wish you best of luck down the road. I was involved in large operation at one time father two sons daughter operation cattle hogs sheep goats out yang yang over 2000acres etc etc. Got point no idea correct except father. its all dissolved,rented out can sleep at night. father deceased,mother lives wheel chair. trust me don't go down the road that I see you heading good luck again and happy ho ho

Nothing like a good story I always say, and even BETTER then a TV soap opera lol. keep up the good work and Merry Christmas to you

John T

JD has demonstrated leadership at the time of highest impact. He spent the time, explained the issues and responsibilities without radicalizing the boys. I believe he sets the bar at a level we can aspire to. Not doing what has transpired in his family would have caused the fail issue you describe. He is not demanding followers, he is building responsible engaged sons. Jim

What you said is true enough. However, there is a fine line between conferring and giving orders and it is pretty easy to drift from one side to the other without noticing. As stated before lots of operations came to a bitter end when the decision making got to be one-sided while the other side had good ideas that may not have been discussed before. My dad is having a hard time backing away but it IS time. I'm not old but the farming industry is changing faster than what I see at times.

I am not too sure that a production meeting once a month is adequate. Once a week to once a day when you are busy seems more realistic to me.

Daily at start of day, even if it's "Good Morning, here's what is happening today"

The meeting we had today was mainly the mechanics of things not the "big" picture type of meeting.

Example: They did not know exactly how the electric was ran to different barns and silos. This type of deal. Where the different water shut offs are in the ground for the different runs/lines. Mainly the things that have been installed over a forty year period as the farm has changed.

They had ideas for how they want to change some of the mechanical stuff in the future. So they did have input.

The thing is until just this fall they all had off farm jobs. The youngest and older of these three still do. So they where not around during the day for all the little things you do just while walking around the farm on a daily basis. Lots of little things that you just check out.

Another example: The one cattle shed is open to the southeast. It is square barn with the shed/open side on the southeast. There is no dividing wall. There is hay stored on the north-west side of this barn with sliding doors that close the barn up. If there is a storm with winds from the south-east. I unlatch the doors and have three foot chains that you attach to the doors that let them swing open to allow the building to dump the static air pressure. If you do not do this the doors have split the cross members an exploded out and up over the roof. The rest of the time you want them closed because the wind whips in rain and snow from the other directions if the swing chains are on the doors.

On the big picture type of things we have been working on that for 4-5 years. The older two already own their own land/farms. The youngest is working on getting his grub steak together. Also now is not the time to be buying. It is a pretty good bet that he can buy land cheaper down the road.

My oldest son has his own operation other than joint owned equipment. He also has a real good off farm job. He purchased his in-law's farm ground. He and I where not far enought apart in age for that type of transaction to work for us. He is forty-five and bought the land twelve years ago. I would have only been 51 and not ready to sell or step aside at all then. Matter of fact I could not have as the farm still had debts to pay off.

Sometimes what "they" want and you want aren't the same simply because you don't explain it all. That leads friction. My oldest boy always thought I was wasting my time cutting trees on some of our land. One day we were doing it and he said, "When we get these cut we'll be able to run the bush hog through here and won't have to chainsaw everything." I turned and looked at him like he had 3 heads and said, "Duh! What did you think I was busting my back for?" He suddenly got the idea, even if I wasn't Mr. Nice Guy about it. In my defense, he was no more friendly than I was.

Explaining the whole idea is probably a good thing.