Pole Shed

john in la · Dec 22, 2013

Thinking about building a pole shed as the termites; weather; rot; has about made my current shed non useable.
Something in the 24 or 28ft squared size.

In the drawing planning stage right now trying to decide how I want this done before I go talk to parish inspector or a engineer.
This will be a self build not a kit.
Need at least 110 mph wind load
0 snow load or very little to cover rain water
Dirt floor as I have about 40 yards of 4x4 pavers to use as a floor.

Where I am at is trying to decide what covering to use for the walls and roof.

For the walls SmartSide Composite Panel with a 50yr warranty

http://www.homedepot.com/p/SmartSide-96-in-Composite-Panel-27874/100055901?N=bb0x#

and Classic Rib Steel Roof Panel with a 45yr paint warrant for the same price per square foot so I am leaning to steel.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbrande...eel-Roof-Panel-in-Charcoal-2313217/204254778#

But for the roof it is a totally different animal. I do not want just steel because of condensation in my very humid area and the noise of rain beating on a steel roof.
3 tab shingles over osb would be my #1 choice but would require double the amount of trusses (2ft o/c) as tin.
Started thinking about steel roof panels over osb but the 29ga steel only weighs 0.08 lbs less than the 3 tab shingles per square foot so we are back to a shingle roof.
I guess my next step is to ask a truss company about trusses 4ft o/c that will carry the weight of a shingle roof or just bite the bullet and go 2ft o/c. At $100 each that adds cost quick.

Your comments advise are welcome.
Here is a very preliminary drawing.

BAnNC · Dec 22, 2013

Spent over 18 years in design, building and
supplies. Trusses for 4 ft on center should not be
that much more expensive than ones built for 24" on
center. When you build with 24"oc, it means almost
twice the number of units and the wall plate has to
accommodate the load at 2 ft and 4 ft. Talk to
your supplier and truss company.
You can get them to build a vault in the bottom to allow more head height or even a light storage attic space. Even in a 4:12 pitch truss there can be some extra space put in for your needs.

samn40 · Dec 22, 2013

This is the cheapest way to build a shed in Ireland....A lean-to
monopitch roof will also freestand without attaching to another
building. Anti drip metal roof sheeting takes care of the drips and
concrete blocks are the one of cheapest most permanant and best
anti-theft wall materials. Pouring a 6inch wall works out cheaper,
but was not suitable in my case.

Geo-TH,In · Dec 22, 2013

I had a 30x40 built about 5 years ago. It was the same price to have trusses on 24, osb decking, 35 year shingles vs a metal roof. I went with trusses on 24....

As for termites, I'm friends with a termite guy. We traded work, he termite treated the pole barn and I fixed something for him.

I also have 1 ft vented eves to keep water away from barn hoping posts will last longer. Sure makes the side of the barn look better, no green stuff growning siding.
George

paul · Dec 22, 2013

I live in a totally different world, its all about snow load here....

That said, for a smaller building 32 feet or less, stick built on 2
foot centers is typically cheaper. For buildings 48 foot or more
then pole building is cheaper. Both use about the same
amount of wood, just how it is spaced. The stick built is easier
to put shelves, etc on.

For a roof no one uses tar any more, shingles of today are just
such rotten quality, put tin on the roof and never have to worry
about it again in your life. Around here, lot of tar roofs need
replacing as soon as 9 years, even if its warren tied you have
a lot of labor and fuss. No one wants tar any more.... They
have thin sheets of fabric or bubble that insulates and sound
proofs a tin roof quite a bit.

Up here, I would tin the whole building, and for that small a
size I'd look to 2x 2 foot studs.

Paul

FBH44 · Dec 22, 2013

If you"re putting posts in direct ground contact make sure you have enough chemical. Most ordinary posts at the lumber yard do not have enough to last. Those posts are for decks or fence posts. These are the manufacturer"s recommended amounts for permanent structural posts, wood foundations, etc.
Anything less, you"re inviting the termites.

“NatureWood” Alkaline Copper Quaternary ACQ Minimum 0.60 pcf for Ground Contact / Critical Structures / Foundation Use

“Micro-Pro / Smart-Sense” Micronized Copper Quaternary MCQ Minimum 0.60 pcf for Ground Contact / Critical Structures / Foundation Use

“Micro-Pro / Life-Wood” Micronized Copper (tebuconazole) Azole MCA Minimum 0.23 pcf for Ground Contact / Critical Structural / Foundation Use

john in la · Dec 22, 2013

Thanks FBH44
That's why I specify at least .60 PT in the drawing.
I know full well about using cheaper stuff. The shed I have now; while it was built in the late 70's was built with lumber yard wood. It needs to be torn down before it falls down.

The local lumber yard has .60 CCA 6x6 in stock. It is rated for Exterior, ground or freshwater contact, severe environments, high potential for deterioration.
Used for Utility poles, building poles, Permanent Wood Foundations

They are checking prices for me on .80 and 2.50

The .80 is rated for Exterior, ground or freshwater contact, very severe conditions or very critical structural components
Freshwater piling, foundation piling, utility
poles in semi-tropical or tropical environments

And the 2.50 is bulk head post that is used in salt water locations.

That is another trouble with stick framing. I can not find 2x4's in anything but very low treatment levels.

Pops1532 · Dec 22, 2013

(quoted from post at 19:23:54 12/22/13) Thinking about building a pole shed as the termites; weather; rot; has about made my current shed non useable.
Something in the 24 or 28ft squared size.

In the drawing planning stage right now trying to decide how I want this done before I go talk to parish inspector or a engineer.
This will be a self build not a kit.
Need at least 110 mph wind load
0 snow load or very little to cover rain water
Dirt floor as I have about 40 yards of 4x4 pavers to use as a floor.

Where I am at is trying to decide what covering to use for the walls and roof.

For the walls SmartSide Composite Panel with a 50yr warranty

http://www.homedepot.com/p/SmartSide-96-in-Composite-Panel-27874/100055901?N=bb0x#

and Classic Rib Steel Roof Panel with a 45yr paint warrant for the same price per square foot so I am leaning to steel.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbrande...eel-Roof-Panel-in-Charcoal-2313217/204254778#

But for the roof it is a totally different animal. I do not want just steel because of condensation in my very humid area and the noise of rain beating on a steel roof.
3 tab shingles over osb would be my #1 choice but would require double the amount of trusses (2ft o/c) as tin.
Started thinking about steel roof panels over osb but the 29ga steel only weighs 0.08 lbs less than the 3 tab shingles per square foot so we are back to a shingle roof.
I guess my next step is to ask a truss company about trusses 4ft o/c that will carry the weight of a shingle roof or just bite the bullet and go 2ft o/c. At $100 each that adds cost quick.

Your comments advise are welcome.
Here is a very preliminary drawing.

Trusses are typically 8, 10 or sometimes 12' on center on pole barns. Since your posts are 8' OC I'd go with trusses 8' OC as well. Notch the posts for the trusses or better yet use laminated posts.

The roof purlins should be on edge not laying flat. You can use joist hangers and butt the purlins against the trusses or you can get brackets that let you run the purlins across the tops of the trusses.

I haven't seen a good 3 tab shingle in many years. You can get very good architectural shingles that will handle the 110 MPH wind. Still, I'd be inclined to use steel with a 45 year or better finish.

I'm not a fan of composite siding so I'd go with steel siding as well.

18" overhang is unusual. Depending on your plans on finishing the overhang, 16" may waste less material.

I wouldn't use the osb and felt under the steel roofing. You'd be money ahead to insulate the roof, or finish the ceiling and insulate it, and make sure the attic has good ventilation.

john in la · Dec 22, 2013

Thanks Paul;
Yes we live in two tally different worlds.

The shed I have now is stick built with pressure treated bottom sills. The walls are sitting on creosote poles that stick about 6 inches above grade. The termites got to it and ate right threw the cheep pressure treated wood.

Since the only wood I can find with any real amount of CCA is poles I am really leaning to a pole shed this time.

Around here you have a few choices.
Build on a slab and have it sprayed regularly for termites or build a wood floor structure off the ground and install metal pier caps. Neither of these work well with a dirt floor shed.

Plus with using poles with hold down cleats such as rebar threw the pole set in concrete it gives we a way to tie the roof directly to the ground preventing uplift and roof tear off in high wind (hurricane) situations.

john in la · Dec 22, 2013

Thanks Pops1532

I originally had the trusses 8'o/c because it reduces the header size but when I went to adding the osb I figured I should go at least 4'o/c if not 2'o/c.
I guess it is a toss up. Spend the money on a header or spend it on stronger trusses.

In fact the drawing is not 100% true. I can not show my true wall girts as I will be using bookshelf style.
A 2 by nailed to the outside has to much deflection to meet my wind code.
I need to use the 4 by strength even at 8'o/c post to get by my wind code.
The bookshelf also lends itself to 2' insulation bats better if ever my kids or someone else wants to insulate the walls.
The same goes for the roof purlins. The 4'o/c trusses allows laying flat but if I go back to 8'o/c I need to turn them up or between trusses with hangers.

I do not have a problem with the composite siding on my house but it is 2' off the ground. This close to the ground I will most likely go steel with tyvek or something similar under it.

You make a good point on the overhang. 16" it is.

The part that has me is the roof condensation. I guess I need to do some more reading on durability of that bubble stuff.

I wonder how something like R-Max; Polyshield; or Foamular sheets would do under steel roofing. It would add a R insulating value; it is light weight lending itself to wide truss spacing; and has a pretty good perm value from what I remember.
I might have to go re-read about its perm value.

Ellis Kinney · Dec 22, 2013

One thing you might want to consider, I have built several pole type structures and I always soak the ends of the poles in warm tar 2 or 3 times before I plant them. Ellis

Anonymous-0 · Dec 22, 2013

Nice drawing John, I'm a retired draftsman/designer and I cannot do that.

PJH · Dec 22, 2013

20 years ago, I put Classic Rib Steel Roof Panels on my house roof. Before I began the project, I called their company for recommendations. They advised me to use 1/2" thick high density foam insulation - the 4' X 8' sheets - under the metal to prevent sweating, reduce noise, and help prevent hail damage. It worked. At that time, they had a very friendly and helpful engineering staff. They actually want your project to be successful when you use their materials. It's in their best interest.

Paul

Dave Sherburne NY · Dec 22, 2013

I agree with Pops on what he said. I would use steel siding and steel roofing. As for putting steel over OSB, it's not recommended. The manufacturers recommend 5/8" plywood, and you should use a different screw which is short and larger diameter than the normal long skinny screws.
Check the manufacturers web sites to see what is available for accessories for corners ridges etc. before you start.
abcmetalroofing

fabral roofing

David G · Dec 22, 2013

Skip the OSB and felt, put the purlins on edge 2' spacing then rafters on 8'. You will save a ton of money. The rafters can be sized for the snow load, all buildings here are that way.

john in la · Dec 22, 2013

Thank you PJH
That is just what I needed to hear.

Now I can go back to trusses 8'o/c
Purlins on edge 2'o/c
Cover that with 4x8 sheets of 1/2" thick high density foam insulation
And install the steel over that.

Might be a little learning curve trying to get the screws in the metal with the 4x8 sheets of foam in the way but watching where I step and working off some good scaffolding I will get it done.

PJH · Dec 23, 2013

John, I'd still recommend calling them. There may be new information and material available that was unheard of 20 years ago. One thing that I remember distinctly - the lumber yard that sold me the material gave me advice that conflicted with what the Classic Rib engineers recommended. I went with the engineer's advice, thinking that they had more skin in the game. I think the folks I talked to were in Louisville, KY back then. They promptly mailed me a real nice packet of information about their products.

That is a very nice drawing that you made. Good luck with your project!

Paul

Pole Shed

john in la

Well-known Member

BAnNC

Well-known Member

samn40

Well-known Member

Geo-TH,In

Well-known Member

paul

Well-known Member

FBH44

Well-known Member

john in la

Well-known Member

Pops1532

Well-known Member

john in la

Well-known Member

john in la

Well-known Member

Ellis Kinney

Well-known Member

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member

PJH

Well-known Member

Dave Sherburne NY

Well-known Member

David G

Well-known Member

john in la

Well-known Member

PJH

Well-known Member

Similar threads