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Pto generator light flicker....and ice.

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Nick m

Member
We have a pto generator that produces 12kw of continuous power. Whenever its running, the lights slightly flicker. It's not horriblely bad, but noticeable. Why? I'm electrically challenged so any advice is appreciated. I always unplug the tv,computer,and Pellet stove because I was told this kind of electricity is not good for anything like that. I'm just happy to have the furnace, hot water, tank heaters and lights in times like this though. Please ignore my unsafe pto shaft.
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The electrical gurus will have to address the electrical part. I have a couple of observations on my unit, which is like yours, only a 25/15. There seems to be enough slop(slap?) in the drive line that it smooth's out better under a heavier load. Anything you can do to get the PTO straight, and stabilize the whole unit, I think will help. Seems to me also that a diesel governor is more precise than my old gas tractors.
 
I agree with Bob, the straighter the drive shaft the less vibration. Even just getting bothe the tractor and generator shafts parallel with oneanother will be a substantial improvement. Backing the tractor up on solid concrete or wooden blocking/ramps, then providing a hitch anchor for the generator that is lower than the existing drawbar will do it.
The slightest variation in RPM caused in part by the driveline configuration, will cause a voltage variation. Flourescent lights are more sensitive to the effect. Goodluck, With the storm, it looks like you will need it. Jim
 
We had a Surge (milking equipment company) that looked like that. Its cart sat on blocks so the shaft was fairly straight. The REA guy shook his head when he was trying to figure out why we had voltage spikes when we were using it. He said he'd never seen a tractor rock like that when the governor hit and that he couldn't help us.
 
Can't tell for sure, but looks like your pto shaft is out of phase. Both yokes should be in the same position. If not it won't run smooth and may cause a bind and make lites flicker. Also hard on u-joints.
 
If you have ever seen the ripped tangled remains of flesh and clothing wrapped around a pto shaft. Slapping against the drawbar and the spray of blood, guts, bowel and body parts. In a line on each side of the pto shaft. Then gaze into the shocked horror stricken family that found the mutilated Father or child. You would not be so dismissive and nonchalant about the pto shaft. Pto covers are dirt cheap at TSC.

Odds are you have connected the system with a three prong cord and plugged into the shop welder receptacle.
How can it be impressed upon you utterly d*mmed brainless fools how dangerous that is?
The flicker could be in part due to trying to pass neutral current on the ground system.
Now some idiot will post how the ground and neutral system are the exact same thing.........

Depending on the tractor's number of cylinders and the gear ratio between the crankshaft and generator rotor. It's not unusual to hit a fundamental harmonic frequency and develop an oscillation.
 
Both problems were addressed by the other posters. U joints out of phase and too much angle on the PTO shaft at the generator. Let us know how it turns out after you fix it. Jim
 
I'm going to Tractor supply tomorrow to get the shields, with my tail between my legs.
On another note, please don't call me names, it hurts my feeling. :) I've fed other generators the same way in the same plug without the fluttering.
 
I think I know what you mean, but I truly think deep down he cares, just has a hard time expressing it.
 
I think we all need to get together and buy Buickanddeere the book "How to Win Friends,and Influence People", by Andrew Carnegie.
 
No, I don't think we ought to buy anybody anything. I think it's time that buickanddeer was told that what he posted, or at least the way he worded it was totally out of line and extremely rude.
 
If your generator has brushes, it may be a case of weak springs behind your brushes, or an uneven wear surface that the brushes are riding against.
 
Didn't even do that on purpose. Stupid luck I guess. Just didn't want ice on my seat. It's a wonder how I survive.
 
Only that it's illegal, dangerous, can electrocute linesmen, burn out 120V circuits and give people or livestock shocks from "grounded" metal.
I would hazard a guess that you haven't read the National Electrical Code or have a valid Electricians license? Nor had any electrical theory?
Why pray tell do they transfer switches ?
What do you think your insurance company, electrical inspector or a linesman would say about the back fed welder receptacle?
 
I turn the main off. Only my problem. Worked that way for years. The correct way will get done, but only one project at a time. You should come to my place and teach me a few things. Are you really the crotchety old know it all I picture every time I see your user name? Lots of people on here appreciate your knowledge and expertise, but the way you deliver it is awful, and takes away from it's meaning. Why? What good do you think you're doing?
 
Because there is a large group of jackleg electricians here that think they can take shortcuts. Try as I and others may try to explain to them the dangers. They have no ability or desire to understand what they are doing. As long as it "works" which seems to be the only criteria.
 
I have came to the conclusion that this forum is NOT the place to ask for electrical help. ANY electrical question that you may have is an open invitation for name calling and other personal ridicule. It's totally unnecessary, but it makes certain personalities feel pompous and important, and it obviously ain't gonna go away. Time has proven that.

I hope you get your problem solved.
 
that's why you open the big disconnect on the pole first DA, that means dumb a$$ if you didn't catch that, I have met alot of very nice Canadians and I have a high respect for the nation of Canada, if I were them I'd run you out of the country, as for pto generators, don't run them with 2 cyl. tractors, the uneven pto speed is not good for them
 

So you ask for electrical advice and then ignore somebody trying to help you setup a safe and working system? Then wonder why there is frustration when you go ahead and take shortcuts anyways ? I go and try to keep you from injuring yourself, family or linesmen. Try and avoid shock, injury and lost livestock production. Then I'm told since the jackleg system "works", you therefore must be right and I'm out to lunch.
I feel like a physician telling an obese patient to loose weight and the patient gains more weight. The patient thinks since they do not suffer immediately life threatening symptoms. The physician is just crying wolf and doesn't know what they are talking about.
Or the patient is in denial of the facts and refuses to face the facts.
 
Sonny, you're NOT talking to me about requested advice, because I didn't request any. If you can't articulate yourself in a mannerly way, you shouldn't respond. NO one denies your vast knowledge of electricity, but it's embarrassing to read your name calling responses to people who are honestly asking for advice. It's unnecessary and uncalled for.
 
The angle of the PTO shaft could have something to ,do with it. Doesn't take much of a speed change to cause a problem.. Not sure if that model has a regulator board or not. If it does look for an adjustment pot marked STB. Try turning it and see if the problem goes away. Also check your brushes if it has them. They should be free in the guides and making good contact with the slip rings. Is the tractor speed steady.
 
The problem with the plug idea. Is if anything goes wrong. You will be held liable for any damage you do. Plus the insurance company will cancel your insurance. I have seen it happen many times.Have a proper switch installed. Because if the power company sees it. They will pull your meter.You will not get it back until you install a proper switch. At least that is the way it works around here.
 
You guys may think buickanddeere is crude and rude. But he is correct . The plug is very dangerous.
I was involved in a lawsuit over a man doing that. By the time it was over. He lost everything.
 
No , Billy, I'm afraid that old hateful A. H. B&D is just an old technician that had a little NEC class & pulled some wire so thinks he is now God's gift to man on electrical knowledge, but is instead God's example of a pompous a$$!
 
Pretty harsh words for somebody that was looking at a unprotected pto shaft and remembering a pto death. You would be shook up too looking at the carnage.
 
(quoted from post at 01:54:45 12/23/13) No , Billy, I'm afraid that old hateful A. H. B&D is just an old technician that had a little NEC class & pulled some wire so thinks he is now God's gift to man on electrical knowledge, but is instead God's example of a pompous a$$!
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I have an interprovincial endorsement on my 309A . How many wiring experts here upset by being told they are wrong. Have the equivent or better quals ?
There are a lot of people who feel pretty smug. They think they are clever getting away with "outsmarting" the utility or any other agency.
 
The problem I see is, no matter how many people die because of mistakes made by backfeeding (i.e. "oops, I forgot to flip the main" or "my husband usually does it") people still INSIST on doing it, and INSIST that it's safe, "as long as I do X, Y, and Z."

Well it is safe as long as you do X, Y, and Z, but what if you forget to do X, Y, or Z in the heat of the moment? What if you're out of town and the wife/kid who has only been TOLD/SHOWN how to set up the generator has to do it? Is the linesman any less dead?

Sometimes the only way to get people's attention is a slap in the face. BnD's got your attention doesn't he? He's making you think about changing how you backfeed your house with your generator, isn't he? Mission accomplished.
 
Don't make lame excuses for your name calling. It's unnecessary and uncalled for. You know exactly what I'm talking about.
 
(quoted from post at 11:01:33 12/23/13) Don't make lame excuses for your name calling. It's unnecessary and uncalled for. You know exactly what I'm talking about.
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Sounds like you are indignant knowing what you are for operating Un shielded pto shafts and back feeding welder receptacles without using a transfer switch. If the shoe fits, wear it.
 
Well.. no one has said..

Is the rpms on the tractor just a bit low?? If its running the power below 60 cycles, you will see flickering in the lights.

Next would be brushes and commentator (sp).Cleaning it will help if its rough and or the brushes are sticking in their slots.


as to the pto shaft, slide a piece of pvc pipe over it,just loose enough to spin if you get into it.

But do tilt the generator down over a bit to get your shaft in line better.
 
You're confusing me with the original poster. I don't even own a PTO generator, and I've never back-fed a welder plug.

My complaint (that you're trying to step around) is that you feel the need to resort to name calling in your responses. It's unnecessary and uncalled for. Now you're spending more time defending your poor manners than you spent replying to the original poster's question.

Carry on. . .
 
You should be able to unbolt the flange plate on the generator and rotate the DRIVE gear to the bottom of the DRIVEN gear, and then re-bolt the flange plate. This should effectively level out your PTO driveline. And PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE put a GUARD over that driveline, if for no other reason than YOUR OWN SAFETY.

Doc
 
you nonchalantly said a mouthful there. i wonder if you have bitten off more than you can chew. alot of common sense things (not) going on there that you don't seem to be sensing.
 
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