IH 460 with stuck motor

petra79 · Dec 8, 2013

Picked up a "barn kept" IH 460 (really cheap). Got it home and found the engine stuck. Pulled the plugs and #2 & #4 had water come out??? Noticed the rain cap was folded under in half leaving half the pipe exposed. Went back to the guys place to pick up other stuff and asked how it could have gotten water in it. Looked in the barn and there was a small hole in the roof directly over where the tractor was. What are those odds???
Any how I've been soaking it with Kroil, then ATF/Acetone mix. Alternating every 3 weeks or so for about 4 month's. #2 is now draining but #4 still holds the fluid.
Any other tricks I might try besides tearing down. Not in a rush, won't do any work on it till spring.

shaun wallace · Dec 8, 2013

Need to pull valve cover and check for stuck valves. Valve seats on others may be pitted.

donjr · Dec 8, 2013

Stick a small hose hooked to a compressor and blow
as much of the material in the cylinder out as you
can, then soak it again in the ATF mix. If you have
water in it, the ATF will just float on the water
and not do any good to the rusted joint. Any
pressure to the crank shaft applied constantly will
also help. TIME-PATIENCE-PERSERVERANCE

Anonymous-0 · Dec 8, 2013

use plain white vinager.Let it soak for a few days.The vinager will eat the rust away and go all the way through.In the last month a have unstuck easily two engines that have been stuck hard for over 10 years.fill up each stuck cylinder till it runs out spark hole.

the tractor vet · Dec 8, 2013

Best unsticking of and engine i know of is called a REBUILD . and even IF you get it to move there is damage to the sleeves and pistons . One other thing to think about is if that water in them holes ever froze something had to give and you may find more then you want .

cjackman · Dec 8, 2013

Just be patient with it. Never hurts to put a little pressure on the crank. I personally would not be thinking rebuild just yet. I have bought many stuck tractors from auctions and such. Have had some very fine running tractors without tear down. I do usually pull the valve cover and loosen up the rockers. Check for stuck valves. Otherwise if you get it turning and have a stuck valve don't take much to bend push rods BTDT.

petra79 · Dec 8, 2013

Thanks for all the replies. I had blown all water out when I first got it. I have had the valve cover off and the head and all looks new. I did spray all the valves with the kroil as well (just in case). Every time I changed what I was soaking it with I would blow out the old stuff. Never tried the vinegar. Might have to try that next. Temps in the teens right now so I might have to wait so it don't freeze instantly. I've bought a few tractors before that were stuck and always freed them up with the kroil. Right now I have a rear up on a jack and the trans in high. Every so often I try rocking the tire back and forth. Will take the advice and loosen the rockers. If rebuild is what it ends up being I'm fine with that but since I won't be doing anything till spring I figured I'd give it a chance to free up. Again I appreciate all the tips.

JD Seller · Dec 8, 2013

I have NEVER had any luck on a stuck motor that had that much water in it. The cylinder side walls will be pitted and the valve seats too. Plus the rings will be stuck in the piston walls too.

You are screwing around with ATF and whatever for 3-4 MONTHS. A head gasket set is only $58.01 on this site.

So STOP wasting time and effort. Just pull the head off. You can then see what is really wrong with the motor. Even if you get it to turn over it will either burn oil or be a hard starting motor with low compression caused by stuck rings or bad valve seats.

I know several guys on here tell you about all kinds of stuck motors they have gotten going with soaking with miracle oils mixes they use on those motors. In my 60 plus years I have seen maybe 1 or 2 motors that where gotten running with those treatments. 100% of those motors where not stuck with cylinders full of water.

THINK about how the cylinder wall will look with rust on them top to bottom??? Pull the head off. You still may not need to spend BIG money. The piston can be knocked down into the block some, unless it is all the way down. Then take a cylinder hone and clean the cylinder bore up. You may still have some pits that will hold some oil but you will not have the ridges of rust to catch the rings. The valves can be removed. Keep them in the order they come out of the head. Then take a wire brush on a drill and clean the rust out of the valve seat area. Use a wire brush on a grinder to clean the valves themselves. Then if the valve seats are not too pitted you can lap them with the valve from that seat. When you have cleaned things up and the motor turns freely then reassemble and adjust your valves and you should have a motor that will run fairly well IF the rings are not stuck too bad.

IF you really want to go into it "right" then drop the pan off when you have the head off. remove the pistons completely and check the rings out. If they look bad/stuck but the bores are pretty good then replaces the rings and reassemble.

So with less than $75 in a gasket set with shipping and a few evenings of work you can have the engine going if you have any luck at all.

IF it is rusted up badly then you will know you need to do more serious work on the motor or find a replacement.

This is just my 2 cents worth. I dislike halfa$$ "repairs". Also if you can't afford a $58 gasket set then you should think about if you can afford a tractor period.
YT Farmall 460 head gasket set.

petra79 · Dec 8, 2013

(quoted from post at 11:18:33 12/08/13) I have NEVER had any luck on a stuck motor that had that much water in it. The cylinder side walls will be pitted and the valve seats too. Plus the rings will be stuck in the piston walls too.

You are screwing around with ATF and whatever for 3-4 MONTHS. A head gasket set is only $58.01 on this site.

So STOP wasting time and effort. Just pull the head off. You can then see what is really wrong with the motor. Even if you get it to turn over it will either burn oil or be a hard starting motor with low compression caused by stuck rings or bad valve seats.

I know several guys on here tell you about all kinds of stuck motors they have gotten going with soaking with miracle oils mixes they use on those motors. In my 60 plus years I have seen maybe 1 or 2 motors that where gotten running with those treatments. 100% of those motors where not stuck with cylinders full of water.

THINK about how the cylinder wall will look with rust on them top to bottom??? Pull the head off. You still may not need to spend BIG money. The piston can be knocked down into the block some, unless it is all the way down. Then take a cylinder hone and clean the cylinder bore up. You may still have some pits that will hold some oil but you will not have the ridges of rust to catch the rings. The valves can be removed. Keep them in the order they come out of the head. Then take a wire brush on a drill and clean the rust out of the valve seat area. Use a wire brush on a grinder to clean the valves themselves. Then if the valve seats are not too pitted you can lap them with the valve from that seat. When you have cleaned things up and the motor turns freely then reassemble and adjust your valves and you should have a motor that will run fairly well IF the rings are not stuck too bad.

IF you really want to go into it "right" then drop the pan off when you have the head off. remove the pistons completely and check the rings out. If they look bad/stuck but the bores are pretty good then replaces the rings and reassemble.

So with less than $75 in a gasket set with shipping and a few evenings of work you can have the engine going if you have any luck at all.

IF it is rusted up badly then you will know you need to do more serious work on the motor or find a replacement.

This is just my 2 cents worth. I dislike halfa$$ "repairs". Also if you can't afford a $58 gasket set then you should think about if you can afford a tractor period.
YT Farmall 460 head gasket set.

WOW RELAX Guess 60 years of working on tractors has really taken all the joy out of life for you. I've got a boss at work to treat me like crap. Don't really need it when asking for some helpful advice. People come here to learn, not to be kicked around. Maybe you should just read and not respond because you really aren't helping.

Lets see. 10 minutes every 3 weeks to take out the plugs, blow air in, put in "miracle oils", replace plugs...Don't sound like much "time and effort" wasted.
No garage and really don't want to tear an engine down next to the farm field in the winter. Not in any hurry to fix it (as was stated in original post) I've torn them apart and rebuilt them before and know how to do it. Never said I didn't have the money to do it either.
Merry Christmas Sir

old · Dec 8, 2013

First off did you get the water out of the cylinders??? If yes how did you do it?? If so much as a tablespoon of water in in it the ATF can not do what it needs to do. On ones like that I have pulled the head and then filled with ATF and then added a little as and then light up that mix and keep doing that till you have the top of the piston showing then try to turn it over with the starter

petra79 · Dec 8, 2013

(quoted from post at 11:56:50 12/08/13) First off did you get the water out of the cylinders??? If yes how did you do it?? If so much as a tablespoon of water in in it the ATF can not do what it needs to do. On ones like that I have pulled the head and then filled with ATF and then added a little as and then light up that mix and keep doing that till you have the top of the piston showing then try to turn it over with the starter

I did blow all the water out with an air hose. I have a home made small blower that fits all the way inside. Ran the air until no drops came out. Each time I take the plugs out I blow air in again and start fresh. I have the starter out. Bench tested it and it works fine. Come spring time I'll put it back in. Like I said, right now I have one of the rear wheels off the ground and trans in high gear. I periodically try rocking it when I happen to walk past it and before I pull the plugs. Tractor is not a priority, just tinkering till spring. Just like knowing what others have had luck with.
When I got it the 2 cylinders were not filled full with water. When I took the plugs out I saw moisture on 2 of the plugs. When I blew air into them is when I found out it had water.

JD Seller · Dec 8, 2013

Well I sounded a little Harsh but I will stick to the odds that your going to need to eventually tear it down to get it to run.

Just a lot of fellows on here wanting a band aid repair that makes them a new/good tractor.

Have a good Holiday Yourself.

PS remember that you ARE on a forum with mostly Grumpy old farts. LOL The GRUMPY varies minute to minute.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 8, 2013

Sounded like very good advice to me.

Glenn F.

petra79 · Dec 8, 2013

(quoted from post at 12:11:49 12/08/13) Well I sounded a little Harsh but I will stick to the odds that your going to need to eventually tear it down to get it to run.

Just a lot of fellows on here wanting a band aid repair that makes them a new/good tractor.

Have a good Holiday Yourself.

PS remember that you ARE on a forum with mostly Grumpy old farts. LOL The GRUMPY varies minute to minute.

Understood. Just wanting to learn more of what others have had success with. Already expecting on a tear down but would sure like it freed up when its time to disasemble (if needed). I'm sure I will at least take the head and/or pan off to inspect the cylinder walls. I don't like band-aid repairs either unless its in the field and need to finish a job.
This is just a project tractor. Going to get it running and sell. Though I don't sell them if its something I wouldn't trust using here. I usually use them here for a little while to make sure the work I did is right and will hold up. Don't do it to make a living, just have fun playing with old tractors. Don't want to see them in the scrap yard either.

JD Seller · Dec 8, 2013

petra79 An Idea I have seen help get the oil/cleaner down by stuck stuff is to make a pressure fitting out of a spark plug. Knock the guts out and tap a air fitting into the steel part of a spark plug of the correct thread.

Then put just a little bit of your mix into the spark plug hole. Then put in the adapter and apply air pressure. That may force the liquid down past the piston/rust.

If you use a air fitting with a valve in it you can leave it pressurized between applications.

Ran out of Grumpy comments down below. LMAO

petra79 · Dec 8, 2013

(quoted from post at 12:25:54 12/08/13) petra79 An Idea I have seen help get the oil/cleaner down by stuck stuff is to make a pressure fitting out of a spark plug. Knock the guts out and tap a air fitting into the steel part of a spark plug of the correct thread.

Then put just a little bit of your mix into the spark plug hole. Then put in the adapter and apply air pressure. That may force the liquid down past the piston/rust.

If you use a air fitting with a valve in it you can leave it pressurized between applications.

Ran out of Grumpy comments down below. LMAO

Didn't think of that. This is exactly why I ask questions. Never know what ya might learn.
I have a small heated shed so I can mess around and fab something up out there. Also have a 75' air hose on the outside of it. Can run it to the tractor and hook it up for a little while when I'll be outside.
Thanks (former) Mr. Grumpy....................lol Much appreciated.

El Toro · Dec 8, 2013

I bought a Farmall A in 1975 with a stuck engine.
for $100.00 and that included the 16-inch moldboard plow. The head and pan was off and after looking at the sleeves I pulled the engine.
I took a piece of oak and big hammer and I drove out several pistons and several the sleeves came out. I used a torch to heat the sleeves to remove the pistons. I steam cleaned the block
to remove a lot of crud. The crankshaft just needed to be polished. It was worn .002" undersize. I bought the bearings from the same shop and had the head redone with new valves and springs. The tractor needed tires, rims, steering wheel, seat, fenders and new wiring.
When this picture was taken I had finished plowing my garden and someone stopped to look at the tractor and wanted to know if a mower could be used. I told him to call the IH dealer and he came back and bought the tractor. I bought a Super C later. Hal
PS: I would pull the head and see what the sleeves look like. If they're pitted I would do a complete teardown.

jeffcat · Dec 8, 2013

This works even better if you remove the valve cover and relax the rocker to close the valve. One friend used a water circulator to a small water heater and hooked a stuck engine up.
ran HOT water through it for a couple of days. Oils really worked with the heat.

old · Dec 8, 2013

Years ago i had a MM RTU that was locked up. I soaked it for over 6 months and it did not free up. I then pulled the head and did the gas trick and that freed it up in less then 2 hours. Burning the ATF/Gas mix heats the block but not the piston so the block/sleeve expands a little which some times is all it takes to free one up

DeltaRed · Dec 8, 2013

I'm with JD.If it's stuck that hard,the things gonna be rusted.Even if you get it loose,the cylinder walls are damaged,rings stuck,valves rusted......Its gonna need an OH.At the very least,pull the head....I'm going through the exact same thing with an MD...

gene bender · Dec 8, 2013

Before you do anything take out the plugs and with a lite look in the hole to see if the walls are rusted if they are aint no snake oil going to clean that up. Remove head and then you can realy see how bad things are sound like yours is waiting on a new engine.

baldwin racing · Dec 8, 2013

like mentioned pull head in spring clean up 2 cylinders with rag that's rusted poor a can of coke on rusted cylinder let sit....it will come loose or pull pan and unbolt rods and slide a rod up and pound pistons out the top some times sleeves will come with them if stuck really bad....if the slleves don't come out you will have to get a sleeve puller.....drop ice in that sleeve and let them cool.The sleeves will pop out with puller.....Over haul kit is around $500 pistons,sleeves,rings,wrist pins, have head over hauled and checked and check main bearings if they are good you can leave the bottom end in it.....freeze new sleeves and pound them in with wood on top of them until they seat to the block flush....do all 6 that way. pop the rods back on pistons making shure there in the same spot. check ring gap lube cylinders and pistons with oil and slide them each cylinder and bolt them back to crank with right torq specs. buy new head studs and bolt head on slide in push rods and re set valves clean carb put in fresh gas and new oil.... turn over with no spark plugs until you see oil pressure go up.....then turn on gas drop in spark plugs should fire up.....
if you need help give me a shout....
kelly

fixerupper · Dec 8, 2013

(quoted from post at 06:51:08 12/08/13) Picked up a "barn kept" IH 460 (really cheap). Got it home and found the engine stuck. Pulled the plugs and #2 & #4 had water come out??? Noticed the rain cap was folded under in half leaving half the pipe exposed. Went back to the guys place to pick up other stuff and asked how it could have gotten water in it. Looked in the barn and there was a small hole in the roof directly over where the tractor was. What are those odds???
Any how I've been soaking it with Kroil, then ATF/Acetone mix. Alternating every 3 weeks or so for about 4 month's. #2 is now draining but #4 still holds the fluid.
Any other tricks I might try besides tearing down. Not in a rush, won't do any work on it till spring.

n old tractor mechanic I used to know very adamantly believed in using iodine to free up an engine. I was reading something in an antique collector magazine about using iodine and one responder said he tried in an old Wisconsin V4 that had been sitting out back of the shed for many years and was stuck tight. The engine freed up after awhile with the iodine in it. He fell short of calling the iodine a miracle medicine for freeing engines because it worked one time for him in an engine that something else might have worked on too. Jim

rustred · Dec 8, 2013

why are you knocking the best advise given here by J D in this whole situation. he is 100 percent correct. too much useless info given here at times as this example. I know for a fact once water has been sitting in cyl. sleeves its tear down time. anything other than that is half azzed. there is no tricks on engine freeups, its do the job properly. your not freeing up barn rusted barn hinges.

petra79 · Dec 8, 2013

Lots of good ideas. Just came in from making a spark plug air tool. Didn't have any plugs that size so since I'll buy new ones anyway, I used the one that was in there. Got air on it right now. Turns out I forgot I had one but for a smaller plug. Used it to change valve springs on an Allis B I had years back.
Never heard of the iodine either. Amazing some of the things that have helped.
Just wanted something to try when I go out that way to tinker. Again, much appreciated.

petra79 · Dec 8, 2013

(quoted from post at 13:44:56 12/08/13) why are you knocking the best advise given here by J D in this whole situation. he is 100 percent correct. too much useless info given here at times as this example. I know for a fact once water has been sitting in cyl. sleeves its tear down time. anything other than that is half azzed. there is no tricks on engine freeups, its do the job properly. your not freeing up barn rusted barn hinges.

Never knocked his advice :? :? Just his manner of giving it. He even admitted that. Maybe you should have read his response to that post (and those that followed) before posting yours????

I'm done here.
If any of you feel I've wasted your time, I sincerely apologize.

rustred · Dec 8, 2013

I will stand in the grumpy old fart experienced line up. post your findings next year.

Eldo case · Dec 8, 2013

I would pull the head and check it out. I see you have it jacked up and if I wanted to break it loose before pulling the head put a come a long on the rear wheel with the tractor in road gear. Put tension on it and let it set. Check it each day for tension. Temp change with the come a long tension most of the time will help break it loose unless it is too bad. Might save a lot of hammering after pulling the head. Best of luck!

Traditional Farmer · Dec 8, 2013

As others like JD Seller have said go ahead and pull the head off to see whats going on as chances are you will have to eventually and save a lot of time and not tear up something not damaged now.

2badlybent · Dec 8, 2013

Not sure if you want my advice but here it is..I have freed many stuck engines by this method. I use hydraulic pressure. You will need a fitting that will screw into a spark plug opening and thread onto a hyraulic hose [like the ones used to raise and lower implements] and a hydraulic coupler that will attach to your or a friends tractor. Take the valve cover off and find a cylinder where the valves are both closed and put the fitting in that spark plug hole. Start your tractor or loaned one and pressurize the hydraulic hose. You should see the fan move just a short way because the piston is pushed down but not up. Remove the hydraulic fiting from the sparkplug hole and you should now be able to turn the engine. If not move the fitting to another one [closed valve] and try again.

Be careful, stand clear of the hydraulics in case of a leak. Note, a fitting can be made by breaking the center from an old spark plug and welding a hose fitting on it. I found mine at a hardware store. Try Lowes or Home Depot.

If this does not free the engine you have a very stuck engine and it will need to come apart. In some cases the engine will fire right up and run just fine.

Note, the piston must be up or partially up to make this work. If the ones with the closed valves are down you can use one of the others by adjusting the valve so that cylinder can be pressurized. Good luck and keep me posted.

IH 460 with stuck motor

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