Vhat if?

Anonymous-0 · Nov 30, 2013

I have been told that Harry Ferguson went to Allis Chalmers, John Deere, IHC, with his three point hitch before he went to Ford, and Ford vas the only one dat wood listen to him.
I vonder vhat wood it be like if one of the other ones would have received him?
Vould Ford have ever been a player in the field if that vould have ever happened?

dino in iowa · Nov 30, 2013

Impossible to answer to many variables, When the patten ran
out, on three point, then one can see what happened when deere
used it. It seens to be one great invention.

Ultradog MN · Nov 30, 2013

I was never much of a fan of alternative history.
Like what if Hitler had gone ahead with Operation Sealion as was planned instead of switching to Operation Barbarossa.
Or what if Lee Harvey Oswald had broken his toe on his way to the Book Depository, etc, etc.
It didn't happen that way and second guessing is idle speculation.
That said, Ford Motor was a huge player on the world manufacturing stage and had more economic muscle than probably any ag manufacturer of the day. So who knows...

Adirondack case guy · Nov 30, 2013

Take your V-W crap down to the cellar. I know you can spell and converese better than that (or should I say Vhat)
Loren, the Acg.

Roy Suomi · Nov 30, 2013

VHAT IF.... Big Todd from the Gold Rush show actually found some gold this season ???? This pretty much tells you what I've been up to since my last surgery.. Oh Yeah , OR Barry from Storage Wars... Do you think he will ever get a "locker" at a sane price ???? OOPS Gotta go now...Steven Segal is on AMC network..

lenray · Nov 30, 2013

You da man Roy--glad you are getting along.

len

Anonymous-0 · Nov 30, 2013

It vonders me still also.

Anonymous-0 · Nov 30, 2013

Vhat's eatin you tonite?

Bill Radford · Nov 30, 2013

Sounds like you-all are a bunch of Count Dracula wanna-bees , either that or Mrs Douglas from Green Acres, Dahling...

flying belgian · Nov 30, 2013

Well I suppose you would have seen the hitch on a JD-B-or a IH-H- or a AC-wc- and yes, Ford would still have been a player because he could have sold his tractor cheaper yet. I think the bigger reason Ford sold tractors was the price not the hitch.

Vito · Nov 30, 2013

Loren,

You sending him down to Tales? We don't need anymore giberish down there.

Vito

rrlund · Nov 30, 2013

Just as interesting a question,and this one did happen. The Baldwin Brothers took their Gleaner combine to Ford before they took it to AC. From what I've read,AC grabbed the deal just hours before Ford was to make a decision.
Would it have put Ford miles ahead and AC just a footnote in early tractor history if that deal had happened.
Remember,Agco is the Allis Gleaner Corporation. Would Ford have become part of Agco instead of New Holland? Makes you think.

rrlund · Nov 30, 2013

At least he's trying to sound German instead of like a cartoon Frenchman like most of them do down there. lol

Old weldor · Nov 30, 2013

Sven and ole!!

ray hofstetter · Nov 30, 2013

In my best Frenchman cartoon voice - read Ultradogs wise reply.

Anonymous-0 · Nov 30, 2013

Mr. Ultraday MN
Vhat you said is interesting, how wood history read today if Churchill and Roosevelt didn't withhold evidence of the plans of Japan to attack Pearl Harbor. And if the army vas waiting for them. History could read another way today.

fixerupper · Nov 30, 2013

AC was a big corporation back in those days, not as big as Ford, but still pretty sizeable. Ag equipment was almost an afterthought to everything else they made, but AC was an equipment manufacturer and Ford made cars and pickups. Neither one of them has survived independently in the ag business and they both ended up at AGCO. So would we have blue Gleaners today if Ford would have bought them? jim

ShadetreeRet · Nov 30, 2013

If someone else had taken Harry's offer, most likely, Ford would have bought one, dismantled and analyzed it, and changed it just enough to keep from being hit with a lawsuit. Which is what Henry Ford II tried to do when they introduced the 8N.

ShadetreeRet · Nov 30, 2013

Having a bad night, Loren?

Switchflicker · Nov 30, 2013

Greek gentleman goes into a Chinese restaurant on Friday.
Chinaman say 'Good Day This is Flyday we have Fine Flied Lice today.'
Greek corrects him "No, No, you should say This is Friday, we have Fine Fried Rice today"
This goes on for a few Fridays and the at last.....
Greek goes in to restaurant. Chinaman says 'Good Day, This is Fri day, we have fine fried rice today. YOU GLEEK PLICK.

Now vhere vere ve?

Sw

farmer boy · Nov 30, 2013

Ford(New Holland) is with Case-IH, to form CNH, which is majority-owned by FIAT Industrial. AGCO is a completely separate company that owns Allis-Chalmers, Gleaner, Massey Ferguson, Fendt, Valtra, GSI, Spra-Coupe, etc. The list goes on and on. There are only 3 main manufacturers. John Deere, CNH and AGCO. Kubota actually has a more revenue then AGCO, but it isn't all directly AG related.

fixerupper · Nov 30, 2013

Why in the world did I think Ford was swallowed up by AGCO? Sheesh! Gnight all. Jim

Bret4207 · Dec 1, 2013

(quoted from post at 18:03:50 11/30/13) Well I suppose you would have seen the hitch on a JD-B-or a IH-H- or a AC-wc- and yes, Ford would still have been a player because he could have sold his tractor cheaper yet. [b:6dfe089ba8] I think the bigger reason Ford sold tractors was the price not the hitch.[/b:6dfe089ba8]

Yup. CHEAP tractors with EASY FINANCING! That's what sold Fords. The 3 pt equipment, when the N series came out, was entirely Ford proprietary equipment. Nobody else made 3 pt stuff but Ford. Gotta remember that 3 pt aftermarket stuff didn't appear for a few years and wasn't commonplace for a decade or more. Cheap tractors, financing, cheap implements with financing. That's what sold Ford.

Ultradog MN · Dec 1, 2013

This is absolutely incorrect.
All the early 3 point equipment was sold under the Ferguson name. Not Ford. Part of the reason for the breakup was Ford wanted in to the implement market as it was rather lucrative but was not allowed to under the "Handshake" Agreement.
Only after 1948 did you see any Ford (Dearborn) branded equipment.

Bret4207 · Dec 1, 2013

But you bought the equipment from the same Ford dealer.

2 Old 2 care · Dec 1, 2013

Harry Ferguson invented and patented the 3-point hitch. He marketed the hitch on 2 different tractors before pitching it to Henry Ford. Where the Ford/Ferguson joint effort paid off was Ford's ability to MARKET and DISTRIBUTE the tractors through his already established network of dealerships. Take a 9N Ford WITHOUT that hitch, and you probably couldn't have given them away at the time even with it's cheap price. Take the 9N as it was and try to market it through a start up dealership network with a relatively unknown name, and it wouldn't have succeeded. What made it a success was the total package and the timing...The world needed an efficient, small, low priced tractor available to the mass's.

Harry Ferguson was a great and prolific inventor. Just not a brilliant business man.

NY 986 · Dec 1, 2013

What year was this with the Baldwin brothers? I honestly think that if Ford had gotten ahold of it that they might have made mad progress like Massey Harris but would have completely run out of steam by 1970 as Ford did with implements in general. Who knows with AC. Most likely it would have been a blow but maybe they would have jumped into different harvesting technology much sooner. Deere experimented with a rotary on a model 55 frame in the late 1950's. New Holland had their TR70 out in the early 1970's which meant the R & D went on for several years prior.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 1, 2013

He didn't change anything with the hyd's. In fact I think I read where he actually used Ferguson pumps and/or everything was identical. That's why Ferguson sued. The original lawsuit was for over 100 million! The 10 million or so paid was a drop in the bucket considering Ford sold over 500,000 8N's. Ferguson still claimed victory and Ford had to change the design on their later tractors.

rrlund · Dec 1, 2013

I'd have to look and see what year it was,but AC had their own self propelled combine with a side discharge like the pull types,so it wasn't all that early.
I do know that the AllCrop put them so far ahead in pull type combine production that they had over 50% of the market share of pull types all the way up through the 50s.

Ron/PA · Dec 1, 2013

"Take your V-W crap down to the cellar. I know you can spell and converese better than that (or should I say Vhat)
Loren, the Acg."

Now that's the holiday spirit, Peace on earth and good will toward,,,,, Nemmind that crap, kick his butt out.

Vhat if?

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