Speakin of wiring receptacles

While on the topic or receptacle wiring, may as well toss out another question/preference so we can all crawl back out of the woodwork (ME included lol). Like I said, I love and enjoy every post on this stuff and the more the merrier I figure, its NOT a race ya know. If I ask a question and get 10 same opinions I feel MUCH better then if 5 say one thing and 5 say the other lol

Okay, say you're running out a receptacle branch circuit in which case you wire INTO a receptacle and then go OUT OF it to another receptacle downstream. Many times you see where an "electrician" or "Billy Bob" perhaps??? in effect used the 2 screws on the side of the receptacle TO SPLICE THE IN AND OUT BRANH CIRCUIT WIRES.

As yall know its not good to have an Open Neutral and its the UnGrounDED Conductor that gets switched, NOT the GrounDED Conductor ie you switch the HOT NOT THE NEUTRAL (don't break a Neutral)

Theres an alternative, of course, if you don't use the receptacle as a splice. That is to run 3 wires (in,, and out,,, and pigtail) into a wire nut to splice the branch circuit wiring and then run the one wire pigtail to the receptacles screw terminal. If an electrician is replacing a receptacle he doesn't have to break the Neutral circuit open, he just removes the pigtail and attaches it to the new receptacle, even though the circuit is shut off at the panel breaker.

SOOOOOOOOO Billy Bobs and Electricians alike, WHATS YOUR PREFERENCE. PS, I preferred deep boxes where possible to allow room for wires and splices and wire nuts etc etc. It takes up a lot of room just to ground a metal box plus splice the grounds plus wire to the receptacles ground lug PLUS splice the hot and neutral LOTS OF WIRES N NUTS IN THERE LOL I liked those greenies grounding wire nuts with wire hole out the top and the little braided grounding pigtails for box ground.

An NEC rusty as an old nail sparky, John T

I, like you, prefer the pigtailing method. About once a year I am called in to someone's house to find out why half of the outlets in a room are not working. In every circumstance it is because the wires were stabbed into the holes in the back of the outlet with one set in and one set out. This is usually helped along by a heavy load of Christmas lights or a 1500 watt heater plugged in. Also if tailed out and someone just cuts the wires to remove an outlet you can put on a new pigtail if the wires get too short. The other way is legal, but more problematic.

Well that's something I didn't know. I've always done it the 'Billy Bob' way and relying on the capacity of that little strip connecting the two screws on the side of the receptacle, and the ability of the two screws to stay tight. Jim

This Billy Bob prefers a pigtail on the receptical. Makes it easier when you can sit in an easy chair and wire the recep & then just wire nut it in. Course I've seen them wired every other way as well.

Why is it not acceptable to use the two screws on each side of the receptacle to go in and out to complete the circuit.


Why are we concerned about breaking the neutral when replacing a receptacle with the power off when the receptacle is not wired with a pig tail?

You can attach two wires in and two wires out to the screws and pigtailing the ground faster than you can pigtail the neutral, hot and ground.

I know the inspectors around here require pigtails and that is what I do but why? Yes it is easier to replace a receptacle with pigtails but after 15 years in my house I have yet to replace a receptacle.

Why don"t we use screws instead of nails when building a house incase I ever need to replace a board? About the same thing.

Just asking??

Gary

John T , I have wired them with the pig tails and wire nuts but they are a PIA to get in "normal" boxes.

What I have found that is a better way on shallow boxes is to buy commercial grade wall receptacles. I use 20 AMP ones. The ones I am currently using do not have the Push click type of connections on the back. They do have holes on the back but they go under a clamp bar that the side screw tightens on the wire. SO I just make sure that the in and out wire are under the same Clamp bar. So the receptacle is not carrying the down steam load.

They are not as cheap as the push click type. The heavy ones run about $4-5 each but make life much easier installing and are safe too.

Jeepers, you guys actually kill the power before changing out a receptacle? I may have to try it that way next time. 'Course then there wouldn't be any lights either, so I wouldn't be able to see what I'm doing.

John, pigtailing is the accepted method.

Another thing to remember, is that it used to be common to run a 3 conductor to the outlets and split them into 2 circuits by breaking the hot. This requires 2 separate breakers. You must use a common trip breaker if doing so.

I always thought the pigtail was the only legal way to do it.

I suppose if you have a 15 amp breaker on the circuit it doesn"t hurt to have a 20 amp receptacle, but it would mislead me to see that outlet if the wires can"t carry a 20 amp load.

I have done it both ways. Usually the 2 wire without the pig tail on always already crouded boxes as that little bit of room makes a difference. I am now if at all possible using the larger plastic boxes for the extra room and if possible use the old work boxes in new construction so they can be taken out if problems ocure down the road without tearing out the drywall. If I have the room usually use the pig tail. Dayton Power and Light approved my work over 30 years ago.

Back when I was younger and poorer I rented a trailer house to live in. While there one day I noticed a haze in the hallway. Upon further investigation I found that the outlet in a bedroom was melting. Turns out that it was on the same circuit as the living room outlets where I had a heater plugged in. The problem was that the wires would expand and contract as the heater warmed up the #14 wires, this created a bad connection where the wires were splices under the 2 screws. The insulation on the wire was melted back several inches and the wall plate was warped from the heat. That is my safety reason to not out them under the 2 screws. The other reason is that's how I was taught to do it . You sure are right that you very seldom have to change out an outlet due to it being bad. I have replaced nails in my tires with screws before to stop a leak, does that count for anything?

David,
I have often wondered about that type of outlet.
Let"s say we are using #12 wire and each circuit is protected by a 20 Amp breaker.
Now let"s suppose that two appliances are being used and each one is drawing 15 amps.
Since there is only one neutral, won"t the load on it be 30 amps which is in excess of the capacity of #12 wire?
Here is a picture from a basic wiring book I have.
Brian G.,
Not an electrician, just a guy who likes to do stuff myself and do it right.

There is no load on the neutral wire. I have run 220 wire back to the bedrooms then split it out to two circuits one for each bedroom using the same neutral for both. The inspector looked at it and said thateatable neat way to save wire. I learned it from a friend who was a lifetime electrician.
Also if you use the plastic boxes then you can save that extra wire to ground it, saving room in the box.
Walt

MULTI WIRE BRANCH CIRCUITS aka Split Wire

There was some discussion and questions below concerning whats known as Multi Wire Branch Circuits aka Split Wire.

YES THEY ARE LEGAL AND USED (moreso in commercial) HOWEVER I DO NOTTTTTTTTTTTT FAVOR THEM IN RESIDENTIAL DESIGN

1) They are more dangerous in the sense that THERE IS 240 VOLTS PRESENT L1 (Red) TO L2 (Black) instead of only 120 (Line to Neutral) in a regular outlet box.

2) Most homeowners and Billy Bob and Bubba have no idea what they are or how they work

3) Of course, they MUST be fed and protected by the use of 240 volt 2 pole tied circuit breakers so theres no way one can still be hot if the other is turned off.

4) They do save on copper wire expense because you only need 1 Neutral versus 2.

5) If BOTH L1 & L2 carry the same amps, say 15 each, THE NEUTRAL CARRIES ZERO AMPS since the 2 hot phases are 180 out of phase and opposite from the other. Best case BOTH carry say 15 amps (if same) Neutral amps is ZERO. Worst case one carries 15 the other 0, Neutral amps is 14

6) To wire them you break off the connector tabs on the hot side and wire L1 to one and L2 to the other while over on the Neuttral side you leave the ties intact and wire a single common Neutral

7) I DID NOT use them in fluorescent lighting circuits where harmonics can cause the Neutral current NOT to necessarily cancel each other out.

John T

If each side draws 15 amps NEUTRAL CURRENT IS ZERO. See my PS post above.

John T

Every time read this stuff I learn something from it. In my previous life at my factory job Just about everything was 460 three phase. Being a mechanic all we did was connect, or disconnect motors. Couldn't go wrong if you can count to three. I was very careful to make sure everything was shut off. We had a cabinet full of lock out stuff, but no one used it. (dumb) So my recent wiring job at home this week, I almost shook hands with 110v. I turned the breaker on the previous day to use my drill. So I had a live circuit down stream. I didn't turn it off the next day. While skinning the hot wire my tool went to ground, tripping the breaker. Could have been serious. Can't bee too careful around this stuff. But here I am a few days later. Stan

Duh,

I went back and reread it.......now I get it.....
the neutral tab is left intact.

Thanks

You have to tail off for multi-wire circuit . You also must use a two pole breaker so both legs in box are dead. Some few code books ago . Pretty long ago actually.Now receptacle come with wires and a small plastic block you can plug into . You will have lots of troubleshooting to cancel the labor saved.Also all fixtures now come with a quick disconnect block because once every 19 days a maintenance guy was being killing by 277 volt lighting changing ballasts. Not a bad idea but very hard to land stranded wire into.Two holes for black in out two holes for white in/out.If you need more than two wires in the fixture you tail off so the block still isolates that lights ballast.

Pig tail IS the only right way.. National Electrical Code. If you went into someones home and try to find an "open" in a recept circuit, having never been there and spent most of a day looking for the bad connection. Then, you have to explain why it took you all that time to find the problem and how big the bill is.... Only thing worst is finding a short in a circuit that goes all over the place.

Then,you will apprecieate a building that was wired the right way. I retired after 40 years as a "sparkey". When we wired a home it had a FULL 5 year warrenty on the job. joe

I will ALWAYS pigtail a receptacle! The only exception would be a GFCI protecting downstream receptacles. I also don't care for backstab receptacles.
I do primarily commercial and industrial use, so rarely get the option of a plastic box. My ideal choice is to use a deep 1900 box (4"x4" square) with an appropriately sized mud ring for the device and wall thickness. Plenty of room in most cases to tuck the tails and wire nuts in.
I also tape around devices with 2 wraps of 33+ making sure to completely cover all live parts. Just a habit after years of doing so.
Around here, the new (last few years) trend is to use devices with the yoke screw as grounding jumper. My understanding is that this is acceptable as long as the device is designed and listed for that use, and does not have the small plastic retainer holding the screw in place. I don't know if I like that either, but that's the way it is.

How can the neutral current be 0? Shouldn"t it be 15? There has to be a path back to the source. Both of those appliances are pulling 15 amps, just on opposite phases.

On my house in the double gang boxes the original electricians decided to solve the problem in a different way. The would strip a half inch section about 6in away from the end. Then they would wrap it around the first receptacle/switch and then they would strip the "tail" and attach it to the second receptacle.

I am in the process of rewiring the house using pigtails. In addition to keeping the neutrals closed, having the pigtail in the future allows you to replace it if it becomes damaged for some reason without running out of wire in the box. I had one outlet that must have had a bug short out the hot and corrode the wire. Luckily there was enough wire to cut back and repair.