OT:copper-topped neighbor kid...continued from long ago

All,

I am very concerned of privacy of others...so I have not said much lately.

How do I instill the importance of a good understanding of mathematics, algebra, and education?

This fine fellow has taken a notion that school does not matter. I think his opinion is based upon teen-aged thoughts, which are brief, and flighty, at best.

I have asked him to bring questions, from a book, from curiosity, anywhere. I cannot seem to reach his momentary thoughts.

I am available most nights, but he has made an effort not to be tutored. (spelling)?

I think he's afraid to admit he may need help. I am not a person to point out that someone may need a whisker of guidance in the pursuit of furthering their education, but I feel compelled to assist.

I have asked for him to bring problems to be solved, in hopes that we could open up a arena of back and forth, no teachers, no bullies, no criticism, just an honest learning.

All advice with wholesome intent is appreciated.

D.

I followed your story of this young man. I have talked to a lot of kids about life and education.
Mostly friends of my 2 boys who are 33 and 36.
I and my wife tell them to get their education first, then decide what they want to do.
But, tell them when you get your education, that is one thing that NOBODY can take away from you.
They seem to see the reality of that.
Richard in NW SC

I told my kids and their friends to get their smarts. Don"t fall into the tattooed earing culture. It was a lot of discipline and love but worth the effort. I know that"s not politically correct but I"ve seen guys passed over for them reasons. When it comes down to money it"s still a red neck world . There are a lot of companies out there that want to pay you a lot of money to represent them. I would take my kids into the shop and have them help me and show them how to apply math and reading skills to solve simple problems. Even something as simple as dividing or multiplying a favorite recipe in the kitchen with mom was a learning lesson. Yes its a tough hard world and its even tougher if your stupid! I don"t know who said that but its true.I"m lucky all of ours have turned out to be good productive young adults, making a good living.

Get him in the car and take him into town and show him how the uneducated end up! Show him the cardboard box homes, then take him to the edumacated end....tell him a little bit of learning keeps you somewhere in between!
Sam

It can be tough, but find a project to build and start it and ask him to help. Then during the project make it so he has to problem solve for different lengths and such.

If he's interested in te project he will learn because its fun and he won't realize you snookered him

Gramps

" Don"t fall into the tattooed earing culture.".
Speaking of earrings and tattoos ... I told both of my boys to go ahead and get an earring if they wanted to, but whenever I got the urge...I would sneak up behind them and just snatch it out earlobe and all...lol. About the tattoos, go ahead and get one...but you might just wake up one morning with me and my power sander with 80 grit trying to remove it...hide and all...lol
Threats must have worked, they are 28 and 26 and have neither...lol

Dennis,

I think many times a mentor, such as yourself, has a far greater chance of influencing a youngster's actions or direction in life than said youngster's parents.

I suspect you're doing more good than you know but keep nudging him in the right direction.

I'll thank you now, he will thank you later.

search on Lance, when he was in high school he didnt like math, not interested in rest, got into welding which peaked his interest and by his words when he saw the practical application in laying out things he applied himself and I understand has now finish School of Welding Technology. Your young man may need to find something that interests him, welding, cars, carpentry, then show him how math , etc applies to those- good luck

It is difficult to set up relevant problems for an early teenager that can demonstrate the importance of an average or above average math education. Math teaches above all else logical reasoning, which we can all agree is very important for any decision making you will do life long. At a certain age, teens will not be reasoned with. If they respect you, they will listen to your opinions and hopefully be guided by them. Following your posts makes me believe you have at least some respect from this young man. Without preaching, he has to believe that you believe what you tell him.
I have mentored several young people that were not my children. Some lived at my home because it was what was best for them and their " parents" were fine with it because that way I supported them. Big deal, one more at the table. At least my wife and I made sure they graduated high school. I taught them a trade and they make a good living now.
All you can do is YOUR BEST. The rest is up to them.

My son fell in love with a girl who was an honor roll student at about that age.

Dennis.You should be truly appreciated in you efforts to make life better for this young man.
Some time (most often) they fall for their friends philosophy and end up on the trash heap so to speak. If that reality is made abundantly clear to you through his actions, friends are more important to him ,then is your efforts to show him a much better way to solve life's problems, making his life fulfilling, then your loosing the battle It may appear to him that your teaching just isn't thrilling enough for him as his friends life style is. I hope you aren't running into this. If so keep on trying as long as he is willing. He might be suffering from an advanced case of peer pressure. Best of luck LOU.

+1 for Gramps John. If he is the kind of kid who likes to help, he would probably stick around and learn something while he is "helping" you.

You might also try the corollary of samn40. Instead of (or in addition to) showing him the consequences of not getting an education (which might help, but most kids are invincible and believe it would never happen to them), do you have any contacts in a field that he is interested? For example, if he likes cars, you could take him for a tour of a body shop. You probably know somebody, or somebody who knows somebody who wouldn't mind taking a few minutes to show a youngster around and let them know what it took for them to get where they are.

Kids have a hard time seeing past the end of their nose. It is a good thing you are trying to help him. My dad made it abundantly clear that I would learn (or else). Like most kids, I probably griped about it then, but after two days as a mason's tender in the heat of the summer, I called and thanked him because I knew that wouldn't be my only option in life!

You can also tell kids that if the Good Lord wanted you to have tattoos and piercings, you would have had them when you came out. The mental picture of that seems to turn most kids off!

When I see people with tats & hardware, I can't help but think that they should also have "Stupid" tattooed on their forehead.

About all you can do is point out practical examples where you use math to calculate, for example, the area of a building, the pitch angle of a roof or to check the accuracy of your speedometer. I have three stepsons, none of them has any real understanding of algebra, geometry or trig. I took almost enough math in college to get a math major (calculus, differential equations, etc.), but was never able to instill any interest in math in my stepsons.

As many people on this site I can do many things different trades ect. I always tell the young people around me to learn as much and as many trades or sources of employment as possible that way you are more likely to have a job and a wage. I have an engineering degree but have chosen to be a builder rather then sit in a cubicle and I believe that all that math gives me an advantage. As many have said find what interests him and in some way show him the advantages of knowledge.

You won't have much luck trying to interest him in something he's not interested in.
Find out what interests him. Then find a way to teach him in a way that includes his interests.

As a University Professor it is an every day task to do as you are intending. My best tactic is to get learners involved in an activity that ends up requiring modest math and application of reasoning to finish. Once they relate the usefulness of the math/reading/and problem solving it becomes palatable. Our schools often fail to teach in real context. Thus the disconnect. Taking Technology Ed classes is a great start. Jim

My most favorite quote (aside from Benjamin Franklin's; Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.) is by John Wayne. "Life is hard. It's even harder when you're stupid."

I tell my son all the time. The smarter you are, the easier life is. Hopefully it is sinking in. Keeping yourself ignorant is a recipe for disaster.

You are probably better off to try and teach him morals stuff like : you don't steal things from work [or anywhere else].Stuff like keep your word , never be late. Math he will figure out when he needs it for something like raking his motorcycle frame [ trig] or making a part on a lathe with a taper[ more trig]. Math in high school is hard to ralate to. I bypassed all the hard math by taking the dummy ones like General Math [ carpenter stuff] and Functional Geometry[ same class different name]. Once I realized I needed it to do electrical work and making parts as a hobby I figured it out. When I was in school it was " new math" . My Dad was a mechanical engineer and he couldn't even do it[ well he could but it was torture to help me with my homework because I took an hour to do each equation and then I forgot what to do next time and he had to start all over again]. That was freshman ,sophmore year taking college oriented math before I figured out the names of the dummy courses for blue collar kids. Just keep hanging out with the kid he'll figure out the math later. Although anyone that quits school altogether in this day and age has NO SHOT of finding a job . Tell him not to quit school for sure.