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Land Line phones outlawed in Mich

onefarmer

onefarmer

Well-known Member
Location
6735 S Lowell Rd, St Johns, Mi 48879
The State (Mich) is working on a bill to drop landlines in the state. They say it costs too much to keep them up and everyone is going cell phones anyway. The proposed drop dead date would be 2017.

How many of you still depend in a landline?

My in-laws could never figure out a cell phone and they couldn't hear it if they did. They also would lose their internet, since they use dialup to email their son in Fl.
 
We have poor cell reception here in northern NY. I often have to go outside to use my tracfone, although some days it works inside. Our landline is quite unreliable and when it goes down it usually takes a few days for the phone company to drag itself out here and fix it.
Zach
 
Everyone in our household has a cell phone. We do have a landline only for DSL internet though. We could get the internet cheaper and better service having a landline.

Our other provider of internet service which was wireless and their tower only one tenth of a mile from us did not give good service. We had wireless landline phone thru them which gave us the most trouble causing us to switch providers.

The whole truth is they can't track us as well with a landline as easily as they can by our cell phones...
 

here in live free or die NH we still have private enterprise which includes a few different tel. companies. I don't think that it would go over real good for the state to tell them to close up.
 
Had my landline phone number for over 50 years. I like it 'cause when the electric goes out I still have a phone connection.
 
The highly likely possibility is that the state is being blamed, when it is the phone companies that want to get rid of the land lines. Lobbyist at work! They need the cell towers & that is expanding business & land lines amount to thousands of miles of wire/fiber & repeaters to maintain that they see as parallel to cell. Whole different set of workers to maintain, too. $$$$$
 
Heard that one state legislator is trying to drum up support for such a bill. Probably a long way from passing. Think wired land lines are here for a long while. At least until they get cells in a lot of places that aren"t presently covered. Lot invested in conventional phones - those industries won"t go down without a fight. Think it"s s stupid idea.
 
We have a land line phone through our cable company and they went digital, the converter box for the digital phone is plugged in. so now if the power goes out we have no phone.
 
I depend on my land line for my business.
My Mom, and my in-laws all have land lines. In-laws don't have and don't want cell phones. My Mom has a cell phone but doesn't like to use it.

When I retire the first thing I'm going to do is get rid of my cell phone!
 
The state does not have anything to do with the cost of a LL, only the taxes they get from them.
 
You would think since I live between Lansing and St Johns there would be good cell coverage. But I can't get a signal unless I stand in certain areas of the house or go out in the middle of the yard. The plan (if passed) would put dialup internet out of business.
 
I have some insite to share that may be usefull here. It's not that your landline is going away its that it will be provided to you in a new way. To the end user it will work just as it always has. Instead of what's called "pots service" (plain old telephone service) which is what you have now you will get VoIP service ( voice over Internet protocol ). Technology has advanced to the point that it no longer makes sence for phone company's to upkeep two versions of the same thing so the old version of service will be fazed out probably by 2020 by the big company's and longer for the smaller local company's. the service works the same it just gets to you through an Internet connection on the wires you already have coming to you're house or business. The only downside at this point is if you lose power your phone will only work as long as the battery back up lasts.
 
I still have a land line. Poor cell service at home
and almost none in the house.

mjbrown, I've worked at two different companies in
the last 12 years, big companies. One a global company.
Neither one uses land lines. All IP phones over fiber.
You can access your phone, contacts list, voicemail, etc
anywhere you have an internet connection.
 
It won't come in on fiber in a lot of cases. This service can be run on copper wire and is already being done in several parts of the country. In rural areas it will require upgraded cell towers and one piece of equipment at the customers house then you use your phone as you always have.
 
What am I going to hook the voip up to? My in-laws don't have highspeed internet. And they don't have access to get it. No cable, no dsl. As retirees they can't afford it.

My mother has dsl but it's over the same old lines that the old pots was.
 
Despite the expense, I will keep my landline as long as possible. I worked in public safety communications, and we had equipment at sites with cell equipment. Our equipment would have batteries, generator, and alarms to let us know of generator failure, meaning on battery, so we could bring a mobile generator. The cell equipment had batteries that would last about a day, and didn't want the expense of the generator. I have seen this at many sites. Telephony and I.T. people don't know what reliability means. I live in the west, with earthquakes, and too many people and government agencies rely upon cellular phones. There will be real problems when the system fails, and it is not if, but when.
The landline system is very reliable, with batteries that last days and good generators. Even if the trunk lines are damaged, local calls will still go through.
I will keep my old rotary dial phone, with a bell type ringer, with my phone number shown as BAldwin 4-3892.
The idea that landlines might go away is very disturbing, but no one will realize it until it is too late.
Sorry if this is a rant, but emergency communications, which a landline is, are very important to me.

Josh
 
Land lines are much more expensive to maintain. This has been coming for years. The only thing the state is concerned with are the taxes on land lines. The state isn't dictating technology, it is reacting to it. A lot of phone company guys have or are going to lose their jobs.
 
We still have a LL; we have lousy cell service at the house. Our builder had to go two miles up the road for service. My wife has a cell for emergencies on the way to/from work.

Larry
 
Don"t know how this relates if at all, but ATT run fiber optics by here this summer. Been for a couple months to get us to switch to Uverse claming DSL is going away.
 
As long as I have young children I'll have land line telephone.
When a panicked 8yr old has to dial 911, I want it to go where it is supposed to.
A freind of Mine found his back garage on fire and dialed 911 on His cell phone. It was half an hour before our fire dept got the call.
He gave the dispatch His address and the fire dept. name.
A dept. in the next co got dispatched.
Meanwhile the Fire Chief of the nieghboring fire dept was responding to a call in His town and happened on it.
Garage was destroyed along with a couple of restored cars and three vintage Triumph motor cycles.
I'll keep My land line.

Steve A W
 
I think that the idea originated with the Telcos.
They probably have to ask the state permission to drop the landlines.
In NY we have the Public Service Commission. They regulate electricity, phone and cable.
Actually what happens is the industries wine dine and bribe the politically appointed, commissioners who are mostly made up of retired industry executives and they pretty much rubber stamp the plans
 
In your In laws case I can't believe they would see any change in their service at this time. phone companies are still required to keep service running to current customer due to 911 requirements. I've been in the phone industry for 16 years and I have seen the progression to VoIP service go more widespread every year, it is the future like it or not. Depending on how rural your area is and how active your phone company is on upgrading their network will determine how quickly your in laws service will be moved to VoIP. It may be a long way off in your case. I can't speak specifically for Michigan but this is happening nationwide. I would suggest you see if Michigan has a public service commission of some kind and ask questions. Several states have regulatory bodies that watch dog public utilities that would be a good place to get answers. Sorry this is so long winded I hope this info helps
 
To answer the original question: my mom still uses the land line only. Not all cell phones are friendly for the blind, and though some blind use the iPhone successfully, they are not cheap like the land line system. Then too, she is ither in the house or with someone such as my Dad who carry cell's.

And like many point out, I know when I visited a friend in rural Md, he had zip, zero, nada for cell service on his 16 acre farm, so land line it is.

Oh, and where my parents are at, Centry Link provides the land line service, and bombard the local TV with ads about their High Speed Internet-that is unavaible at our house, BUT I'm told the vary type of cable used for this service is buried in the street in frount of our house (I know they hired a shoddy contractor 10 years ago to burry some type of cable, but I was too young then to understand it at all then, and now I've got to rely on people who didn't really bother to understand it, so don't remember for sure.)
 
With a land line, the government was supposed to get a warrant to tapp a line. With cellular service some juridictions have held it is not needed. Just another subtle erosion of the constitution.
 
Just looked at the article I can't believe this is the whole story phone company's are also regulated by the FCC so I would think they would have a say on something like this regardless of what the state is trying to pass
 
have a land-line phone and will do so , have had the same number over 50 years
also I am a HAM operator too live in south mississippi and when KATRINA took its toll
our local sheriff"s office lost the towers and power (that generator worked fine when tested but would not run when needed) thats when the land line phones and the 2meter rigs shined
we were without power 28 days
to see so many young people holding their cell-phones as high as they could up ladders on top of houses the thing is like dope they need their fix
all of our repeaters were linked all the way to DC
we had phone patches on several rigs (but we didnt let on that we could talk to anyone any where that had service ) I DO NOT OWN A CELL PHONE AND WILL NEVER OWN ONE !!
 
I would never call 911 on the cell phone unless I wanted to speak with the Highway Patrol. They are the agency that answer most 911 calls here. Always know the regular 7 digit for your police, sheriff, fire, or whatever emergency agency. It is usually the same number as you would have called before 911. If you know a fireman, deputy, or cop ask about if there is a "backline", a unlisted number that officers call in on. Better chance of getting it answered quickly.

Josh
 
Reminds me of that movie Idiocracy. Pretty soon we will be too dumb to have land line phones anymore. Kind of like the smart guys that thought we should turn our railroads into rails to trails and now we have a cluttered up highways systems of semi trucks everywhere and desperately need our railroads back. Really becomes obvious how criminal our legislators in Lansing are. ATT pays lobbyist to get legislation started on this bs so they can save money on maintaining a phone system they think is outdated. You know whats outdated? Standing in my house on a POS cell phone that can't get a signal or already has a dead battery. Or maybe having to look at another hideous cell phone tower on my way to work. Society is getting as dumb as a box of rocks. I hope the rest of the criminals in lansing are smart enough to get this shot down before it even gets off the ground.
 
Let's be clear here. It is AT&T that wants to discontinue landline service. The bill in the Michigan legislature was written by AT&T lobbyists for the benefit of AT&T. It would allow AT&T and other phone companies to discontinue Plain Old Telephone Service (POTS) with 90 days notice after 2017. It will probably sail through the legislature, since the current state house and senate rubber-stamp every bill business lobbyists put in front of them.

AT&T has wanted to dump POTS for a long time. It's expensive to maintain and they're required to lease lines to their competitors. In rural areas they have no incentive to upgrade their service. (I've been waiting for over 15 years for DSL, and we're technically in a metropolitan area.) In urban areas phone companies face competition from cable TV and data service providers. Getting rid of POTS will cut their costs and put competing local service companies out of business. Nice.

I have mixed feeling about the loss of landline service. Ours has been consistently bad for years. On the other hand, when the blackout hit a few years back out, our landline continued to work while cell service quit within a few minutes of the blackout. Most of the calls on our landline are telemarketers, but it's still nice to have a number that isn't going to ring our cell phones.
 
I dropped Frontier about a week and a half ago and went to Verizon wireless home phone. The bill was nearly $80 a month,the wireless is $19.95 plus tax (less than $25) a month with free long distance.

Wasn't that bill just going to allow carriers to drop land lines to certain areas if they chose to?
 
We switched over to a wireless "land-line two years ago and it's been great. Verizon Home-Phone-Connect. It's cheaper then the old hard-wire land-line and as far as I can tell - does all the things the old landline did and more. We now have our original home phone number with us when we travel. Still use "old fashioned" phones. I.e. no need to change to a cell phone. Can't say I've tried dial-up Internet but I suppose it would also work. We dropped dial-up for Internet and went to Millenicom wireless.

I don't blame companies for wanting to drop a part of their business when it no longer makes money and there is a better alternative. Or - do some now want "external_link" landlines? I'm sure they'd work GREAT!
 
(quoted from post at 05:50:18 11/21/13) We switched over to a wireless "land-line two years ago and it's been great. Verizon Home-Phone-Connect. It's cheaper then the old hard-wire land-line and as far as I can tell - does all the things the old landline did and more. We now have our original home phone number with us when we travel. Still use "old fashioned" phones. I.e. no need to change to a cell phone. Can't say I've tried dial-up Internet but I suppose it would also work. We dropped dial-up for Internet and went to Millenicom wireless.

I don't blame companies for wanting to drop a part of their business when it no longer makes money and there is a better alternative. Or - do some now want "external_link" landlines? I'm sure they'd work GREAT!
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Do the rotary dial phones still work? That's what I need from my service, LOL.
 
(quoted from post at 09:26:59 11/21/13)
(quoted from post at 05:50:18 11/21/13) We switched over to a wireless "land-line two years ago and it's been great. Verizon Home-Phone-Connect. It's cheaper then the old hard-wire land-line and as far as I can tell - does all the things the old landline did and more. We now have our original home phone number with us when we travel. Still use "old fashioned" phones. I.e. no need to change to a cell phone. Can't say I've tried dial-up Internet but I suppose it would also work. We dropped dial-up for Internet and went to Millenicom wireless.

I don't blame companies for wanting to drop a part of their business when it no longer makes money and there is a better alternative. Or - do some now want "external_link" landlines? I'm sure they'd work GREAT!
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Do the rotary dial phones still work? That's what I need from my service, LOL.
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he one in my house does, on Verizon copper.
 
Long before cell phone and wireless the Gov paid ( subsidized) rural phone service lines to be built and paid big money, phone company's collected the fees monthly there after, now the want out because the profit isn't as good.


Verizon CEO McAdam’s Compensation Triples to $23.1 Million
CEO
 
We still have a land line at the farm, but the computer has a "mobile device". Looks like a cell, but no screen or number pad.
 
When we got out Verizon wireless home phone unit,the salesman told us that he knew a woman who had one who had an inverter in her car. Said she would plug this unit in to it and plug a corded phone in to that. Said she'd put the whole unit in the seat of her car so she could take her home phone with her on the road. So must be a corded phone at least works with this Verizon wireless unit.
 
Where I live I have no choice but to have a land line since cell phones do not work here. Plus the only internet service I can get is on a land line so again no choice but to have one
 
Change is difficult for all of us, but at some point the financial reality will kick in and we will accept it. A year later, Grandma will be using her cell phone, and her microwave, and surfing channels on her satellite TV. But...She won't change until forced to.
Me neither.

Our local telegraph office is closed..how about yours? Sounds like a similar situation.

They can stick up a lot more cell towers for the cost of maintaining land lines, and broaden coverage.

I still have a landline and DSL, but something new will come along and obsolete it. When It does I will be forced to change, but I will put it off until I have to.
 
(quoted from post at 07:18:07 11/21/13) I don't have a cell phone. Land line. How else would I get Internet?

Paul
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Satellite: Hughes Net, Wild Blue, etc. Works pretty well for us.
 
(quoted from post at 15:37:23 11/21/13) When we got out Verizon wireless home phone unit,the salesman told us that he knew a woman who had one who had an inverter in her car. Said she would plug this unit in to it and plug a corded phone in to that. Said she'd put the whole unit in the seat of her car so she could take her home phone with her on the road. So must be a corded phone at least works with this Verizon wireless unit.
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Yep, with Home Connect we can take the unit with us anywhere we go and still get calls at the "home" number, as long as we are in a Verizon area. Just need a standard plug in phone to connect to it. It's cheaper than the wired line ($20 a month) unlimited minutes, unlimited long distance, and we get caller ID and voice mail on it (never wanted to pay for those before). Well worth it for us.
 
The only reason they are forcing the change is that the Analog land lines can not be recorded or monitored. If it were not for the fact they want to monitor everything, it would not be an issue.
 
I have 2 rotary phones in use, one in the main barn
and one in a shop. Our local phone company (coop)
just spent millions 3 years ago upgrading everything
to fiber optic. Land line, cable tv and high speed
internet all come in the same underground line now.
Works well for us and I don't see it going away
anytime soon.

Casey in SD
 
Nope.

Phone companies are LOSING their proverbial a$$es on rural landline service. It costs more to maintain the landlines than they bring in from phone bills.

Used to be the city customers, where you had lots and lots of people paying bills per mile of phone cable, paid for the rural service, where you had lots and lots of miles of cable, and only a few people paying bills.

The way to make it "right" is to make rural people pay their fair share. It's not the phone company's fault that you chose to live hundreds of miles from nowhere, where there is no cell service. You should really be paying to maintain those extra miles of phone line that nobody but you use.

BUT, most people couldn't afford what it would REALLY cost, and there would be a huge public uproar about the "big mean phone company" charging exorbitant amounts of money for phone service.

In a nutshell rural landline service amounts to a CHARITY. Yeah it costs you $70 a month, but if it costs the phone company $300 a month to bring you the service, it's a charity.
 
Telephone monopoly ended years ago. Cell phones have replaced most of the landline phones and destroyed long distance call revenue. Phone company wants permission to drop costly maintenace to provide service to some old chap, 2 miles from his nearest neighbor that refuses to try the new fangled cell technlogy.

If the old chap had to pay the real true cost of his phone, he would switch in 30 seconds. One service trip probably eats up 5 years of his monthly phone bill. Seems like this is just that free enterprise system (without govt. interferance) that so many wish for.
 
Erie County (Pennsylvania) closed all the individual 911 call centers and opened one large one for the whole county. They immediately had several buildings burn and some police calls go undispatched because the 911 calls got routed out-of-state by the cell system. Then when the calls did come through the computer system wouldn"t work anyhow. I don"t know if they ever got that cluster fixed or not.
 
(quoted from post at 08:53:13 11/21/13) The highly likely possibility is that the state is being blamed, when it is the phone companies that want to get rid of the land lines. Lobbyist at work! They need the cell towers & that is expanding business & land lines amount to thousands of miles of wire/fiber & repeaters to maintain that they see as parallel to cell. Whole different set of workers to maintain, too. $$$$$
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Yep, most states require telcos to provide landline services to remote areas even if they do not make a profit.
This is likely what the telcos are trying to get out from under.
 
I don't know how that they could "ban" them. Copper provides DSL to DSL subscribers. Copper provides high speed internet through things such as "U-verse" which provides TV, high speed data, and telephone whether VOIP or TDM. So, I doubt that they could ban it.

I work for AT&T, and they have petitioned the commerce commissions in multiple states to allow them out of the landline business, as has Verizon, but in my opinion, they might want to be careful. Back in the day of divestature, better known as te breakup of Ma Bell, most blame the court, judge for that breakup, but in reality, it was AT&T that wanted nothing to do with local service. They only wanted to do long distance and special circuits. Problem with that is that the breakup that created the 7 RBOCs (Regoinal Bell Operating Companies), gave the 7 RBOCs opportunites to do things that left AT&T out in the cold, and internet access was one of them. That caused AT&T to do their best to get back into the business, but how since the 7 RBOCs owned all of the telephone cable? AT&T went out and started buying up TV cable company after TV cable company to provide...telephone service, and internet access, AND they darn near went broke doing it. SBC (Southwestern Bell) purchased AT&T to gain the internationally known name for a paltry $16 Billion, which was a fraction of what AT&T was worth before almost bankupting themselves, and we became AT&T. Good bad, or indifferent, thats the nuts on that one. So now, AT&T wants to get out of the landline business, and has even petitioned states to allow them to do so. Verizon did the same thing. Where I'm from in Indiana, I live in former Verizon territory. Verizon sold their cable, local landline business off to Frontier thinking that they got a good deal and Frontier bought a lemon. Frontier is cleaning up in high speed internet access using existing and upgraded copper, bless their hearts. I wish them the best. They were sold a Model-T and turned it into a turbocharged Masserati. Bless their hearts for working to make it work, as opposed to picking the caviar off of the plate and tosssing the rest of it into the garbage like others that I can think of.

I don't know how Michigan can ban landlines without banning the competition, cable TV. That would seem kind of unfair, so to speak. To me, that would be akin to banning John Deere tractors, but not Case IH. How do they do that?

Mark
 
I am retired now, but worked for the local TELCO for 25 years. All my family members have cell phones but they get very little use. We also have a land line, one of the big reasons for which is that in rural areas cell phones are not real dependable, especially in basement or in a metal building. Before the land lines are abandoned the cell phone companies need to be regulated just as the land line companies are. If a land line company provides service in an area, it must provide "universal" service, meaning everyone in that area must be provided service if they want it, no matter where they live. Cell companies are allowed to pick and choose where they want to provide service, and they frequently choose NOT to provide service outside of high population areas due to expense. If you live in town and never go elsewhere, you do not care about land lines, but if you live 10 miles out of town and need an ambulance or fire truck, you frequently are S.O.L. with a cell.
 
Yep, most states require telcos to provide landline services to remote areas even if they do not make a profit.
This is likely what the telcos are trying to get out from under.
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That's exactly what they're trying to get out from under, but the government is telling them that they have to drive their businesses into bankruptcy providing unprofitable landline service. How's that free enterprise?

If not for government involvement, there would be no landline service left.
 
(quoted from post at 18:00:44 11/22/13)
Yep, most states require telcos to provide landline services to remote areas even if they do not make a profit.
This is likely what the telcos are trying to get out from under.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what they're trying to get out from under, but the government is telling them that they have to drive their businesses into bankruptcy providing unprofitable landline service. [b:3b5ee90fb1]How's that free enterprise?[/b:3b5ee90fb1]

If not for government involvement, there would be no landline service left.
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The free enterprise system is a wonderful thing. Too bad it's a thing of the past!
 
(quoted from post at 14:23:43 11/22/13)
(quoted from post at 18:00:44 11/22/13)
Yep, most states require telcos to provide landline services to remote areas even if they do not make a profit.
This is likely what the telcos are trying to get out from under.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what they're trying to get out from under, but the government is telling them that they have to drive their businesses into bankruptcy providing unprofitable landline service. [b:1a145fb200]How's that free enterprise?[/b:1a145fb200]

If not for government involvement, there would be no landline service left.
Click to expand...
The free enterprise system is a wonderful thing. Too bad it's a thing of the past!
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he fine print at bottom of AT&T adv, in last Sunday's paper, for "AT&T wireless home phone": "Provides voice service only. Not compatible with home security systems, fax machines, credit card machines, and medical alert/monitoring systems. DSL customers should contact their provider before transferring a phone number to ensure uninterrupted DSL Internet service. May not be compatible with DVR/satellite systems. Geographic usage, & other restrictions apply. Coverage not available everywhere." Let the buyer beware!
 
I just made the jump to a Straight Talk home phone replacement for $15 a month and Straight Talk mobile hot spot for $15 for first Gig. The home unit is the same brand that the other companies use. The hot spot works good in my location but does not have an external antenna input. Verizon and ATT mobile hot spots have an external antenna so they may be better in weak signal areas.
 
Our state senator came to my house with an AT&T representative to demonstrate the system. We are in a marginal cell area and I have to go to specific rooms in our house to get good reception. It worked fine, would hook up to all existing phones in the house(no rotary dials). It does have a battery backup but no idea how long it lasts, didn't think to ask. Under normal conditions all the phones in the house work as in the past. Currently cordless phones don't work without power, so no change there. I think if passed it will require more towers to work. We have gone thru three telephone companies in recent years, ending up with Frontier. Can't say they are the best, lots of outages and problems. Technology is a continuous change process. When we built the house 40 years ago we were on a 4 party line. No private lines available. This is another step in a long path of change. I'd rather go this route than go back to a party line of 40 years ago. Just my opinion.
 
I think you are right. Frontier may very well come out on top. I think people are being misinformed about the used of landlines. There are many people that still use them, find them much more reliable than cell phones and have DSL. I am one of them. I hope that Frontier buys the landline business here in Michigan. I know it is already in some of the rural parts of Michigan. I think that the companies that want to abandon landlines are making an unwise choice but that is fine as long as there is a company like Frontier to pick up the business. I think Frontier will do great and I intend to support them.
 
(quoted from post at 18:48:35 11/22/13) Our state senator came to my house with an AT&T representative to demonstrate the system. We are in a marginal cell area and I have to go to specific rooms in our house to get good reception. It worked fine, would hook up to all existing phones in the house(no rotary dials). It does have a battery backup but no idea how long it lasts, didn't think to ask. Under normal conditions all the phones in the house work as in the past. Currently cordless phones don't work without power, so no change there. I think if passed it will require more towers to work. We have gone thru three telephone companies in recent years, ending up with Frontier. Can't say they are the best, lots of outages and problems. Technology is a continuous change process. When we built the house 40 years ago we were on a 4 party line. No private lines available. This is another step in a long path of change. I'd rather go this route than go back to a party line of 40 years ago. Just my opinion.
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Party lines were 40 years ago? Get out! No way! ;)
I remember asking my neighbors if they would be done soon.
I'm going to be 29 again real soon now. LOL
 
(quoted from post at 13:37:21 11/21/13) The only reason they are forcing the change is that the Analog land lines can not be recorded or monitored. If it were not for the fact they want to monitor everything, it would not be an issue.
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elephone companies were forced to instal equipment to record calls made and allow tapping of lines remotely around 11 or 12 years ago. Up till then equipment had to be connected to an individual line by a technician to record, but not anymore.
 
A bill approved Thursday by the Michigan Senate 31 to 4 would allow phone companies, like AT&T, to discontinue residential land line service starting January 1, 2017.

Land line users would be given 90 days notice prior to cancellation of their service.

The bill received huge support by Michigan Senators.

AT&T says the legislation would eliminate red tape.

However, those who oppose the bill say there are not enough consumer safeguards in it. Opponents worry non-traditional service might not be reliable, or affordable.

Land line service has dropped significantly in Michigan over the last decade. In 2001, there were 6.8 million traditional phone lines compared to 2.6 million in 2012.

The bill now moves to the House.
 
Just tell your in-laws that they have to have a cell phone to get their Social security checks and medicare payments and they will have one before sundown. Bet they have a microwave, and a satellite dish (or cable).
 
(quoted from post at 00:00:44 11/23/13)
Yep, most states require telcos to provide landline services to remote areas even if they do not make a profit.
This is likely what the telcos are trying to get out from under.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what they're trying to get out from under, but the government is telling them that they have to drive their businesses into bankruptcy providing unprofitable landline service. How's that free enterprise?

If not for government involvement, there would be no landline service left.
Click to expand...

another aspect of cell service is that they are not required to have power backup in the event of an emergency.
Landlines are required to have power backup.



the phone companies providing rural service in large part was in exchange for their exclusive franchises. They liked those exclusive franchises very well. And before deregulation they were guaranteed a certain profit margin.
 
(quoted from post at 00:00:44 11/23/13)
Yep, most states require telcos to provide landline services to remote areas even if they do not make a profit.
This is likely what the telcos are trying to get out from under.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what they're trying to get out from under, but the government is telling them that they have to drive their businesses into bankruptcy providing unprofitable landline service. How's that free enterprise?

If not for government involvement, there would be no landline service left.
Click to expand...

No it is not free enterprise. Neither is police, fire, water, sewer, roads, etc.
but as I said before they got the deregulation they wanted they were guaranteed a reasonable profit for providing a public service.

Loss of landlines will cut into school, etc tax revenue a lot. So more taxes on something else to pay for our socialized public services.
 
.........
but as I said before they got the deregulation they wanted they were guaranteed a reasonable profit for providing a public service.

Loss of landlines will cut into school, etc tax revenue a lot. So more taxes on something else to pay for our socialized public services.
Click to expand...
and Line companies are very heavily regulated, the long distance carriers are deregulated, but not the land lines. The companies that have land lines and long distance companies have it actually broken up in two different companies, and add cell companies to it you sometimes have 3 different companies under the same name, but all independently operated. Land line companies so called reasonable profit is 3 to 6 percent, which is aobut 1/4 of what most businesses make.
 
(quoted from post at 05:02:10 12/10/13)
.........
but as I said before they got the deregulation they wanted they were guaranteed a reasonable profit for providing a public service.

Loss of landlines will cut into school, etc tax revenue a lot. So more taxes on something else to pay for our socialized public services.
Click to expand...
and Line companies are very heavily regulated, the long distance carriers are deregulated, but not the land lines. The companies that have land lines and long distance companies have it actually broken up in two different companies, and add cell companies to it you sometimes have 3 different companies under the same name, but all independently operated. Land line companies so called reasonable profit is 3 to 6 percent, which is aobut 1/4 of what most businesses make.
Click to expand...

Yep it was not about making a profit, but making more profit.
In the end WE wind up paying for that more profit.
 
For those that are interested, below is a portion of he text in the bill that was passed by the Michigan Senate. Lots of mumbo-jumbo but the real question will be what is the meaning of "comparable" voice and "reliable" access to 911. I can see lots of lawsuits over the definitions:

(6) AFTER JANUARY 1, 2017, AND ONLY IN AN AREA IN WHICH A
26 TELECOMMUNICATION PROVIDER EITHER HAS GIVEN NOTICE OF A PROPOSED
27 DISCONTINUANCE OF SERVICE UNDER SUBSECTION (5) OR HAS DISCONTINUED

16

S04016'13 (S-2) KHS
1 SERVICE WITHIN THE PREVIOUS 90 DAYS, A CUSTOMER OF THAT PROVIDER OR
2 ANY INTERCONNECTING TELECOMMUNICATION PROVIDER MAY REQUEST THE
3 COMMISSION TO INVESTIGATE THE AVAILABILITY OF COMPARABLE VOICE
4 SERVICE WITH RELIABLE ACCESS TO 9-1-1 AND EMERGENCY SERVICES TO
5 THAT CUSTOMER OR A CUSTOMER OF AN INTERCONNECTING TELECOMMUNICATION
6 PROVIDER. IF THE COMMISSION, AFTER CONDUCTING AN INVESTIGATION TO
7 LAST NO LONGER THAN 180 DAYS REGARDING THE AVAILABILITY OF
8 [b:502fea0948]COMPARABLE[/b:502fea0948] VOICE SERVICE WITH [b:502fea0948]RELIABLE [/b:502fea0948]ACCESS TO 9-1-1 AND
9 EMERGENCY SERVICES, DETERMINES THAT THE FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS
10 COMMISSION FAILED TO MAKE A FINDING THAT THE PRESENT AND FUTURE
11 PUBLIC CONVENIENCE AND NECESSITY IS NOT ADVERSELY AFFECTED OR HAS
12 NOT ADEQUATELY ADDRESSED THE ISSUE, THE COMMISSION SHALL DECLARE BY
13 ORDER THAT AN EMERGENCY EXISTS IN AN AREA IN THIS STATE THAT IS NOT
14 SERVED BY AT LEAST 1 VOICE SERVICE PROVIDER OFFERING COMPARABLE
15 VOICE SERVICE WITH RELIABLE ACCESS TO 9-1-1 AND EMERGENCY SERVICES
16 THROUGH ANY TECHNOLOGY OR MEDIUM AND SHALL CONDUCT A REQUEST FOR
17 SERVICE PROCESS TO IDENTIFY A WILLING PROVIDER OF COMPARABLE VOICE
18 SERVICE WITH RELIABLE ACCESS TO 9-1-1 AND EMERGENCY SERVICES IN
19 THAT AREA, INCLUDING THE CURRENT PROVIDER. A PROVIDER SHALL NOT BE
20 REQUIRED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE REQUEST FOR SERVICE PROCESS. THE
21 WILLING PROVIDER MAY UTILIZE ANY FORM OF TECHNOLOGY THAT IS CAPABLE
22 OF PROVIDING COMPARABLE VOICE SERVICE WITH RELIABLE ACCESS TO 9-1-1
23 AND EMERGENCY SERVICES, INCLUDING VOICE OVER INTERNET PROTOCOL
24 SERVICES AND WIRELESS SERVICES. IF THE COMMISSION DETERMINES THAT
25 ANOTHER PROVIDER IS NOT CAPABLE OF PROVIDING COMPARABLE VOICE
26 SERVICE WITH RELIABLE ACCESS TO 9-1-1 AND EMERGENCY SERVICES IN
27 THAT AREA, THE COMMISSION SHALL ISSUE AN ORDER REQUIRING THE

17

S04016'13 (S-2) KHS
1 CURRENT TELECOMMUNICATION PROVIDER TO PROVIDE COMPARABLE VOICE
2 SERVICE WITH RELIABLE ACCESS TO 9-1-1 AND EMERGENCY SERVICES IN
3 THAT AREA UTILIZING ANY FORM OF TECHNOLOGY THAT THE COMMISSION
4 DETERMINES IS CAPABLE OF PROVIDING COMPARABLE VOICE SERVICE WITH
5 RELIABLE ACCESS TO 9-1-1 AND EMERGENCY SERVICES, INCLUDING VOICE
6 OVER INTERNET PROTOCOL SERVICES AND WIRELESS SERVICES, UNTIL
7 ANOTHER WILLING PROVIDER IS AVAILABLE. AN INTRASTATE UNIVERSAL
8 SERVICE FUND UNDER SECTION 316A SHALL NOT BE CREATED OR USED TO
9 COMPENSATE OR FUND A WILLING PROVIDER OR CURRENT TELECOMMUNICATION
10 PROVIDER TO PROVIDE SERVICE UNDER THIS SECTION. AS USED IN THIS
11 SUBSECTION:
12 (A) "COMPARABLE VOICE SERVICE" INCLUDES ANY 2-WAY VOICE
13 SERVICE OFFERED THROUGH ANY FORM OF TECHNOLOGY, INCLUDING VOICE
14 OVER INTERNET PROTOCOL SERVICES AND WIRELESS SERVICES, THAT IS
15 CAPABLE OF PLACING CALLS TO AND RECEIVING CALLS FROM A PROVIDER OF
16 BASIC LOCAL EXCHANGE SERVICE.
17 (B) "RELIABLE ACCESS TO 9-1-1" MEANS ACCESS TO 9-1-1 WHICH IS
18 PROVIDED IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE EMERGENCY 9-1-1 SERVICE ENABLING
19 ACT, 1986 PA 32, MCL 484.1101 TO 484.1717, AND THE REQUIREMENTS OF
20 THE FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION.
21 (C) "WILLING PROVIDER" MEANS A PROVIDER THAT VOLUNTARILY
22 PARTICIPATES IN THE REQUEST FOR SERVICE PROCESS.
 
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