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How do I convert a new Delco-Remy to 1 wire alternator?

S

Shealray

Member
How do I convert a new Delco-Remy to 1 wire alternator?
This is for my Ford 850 conversion from 6 volt to 12 volt
I connected a wire from spade post #2 to alternator Battery post to make a 1-wire alternator.
I ran a wire from alternator to battery post on 3 post solenoid where the battery thermal positive side is.
I ran a wire from solenoid battery post to off side of switch.
Tractor runs, but trying to figure if alternator is charging.
I have this light (idot) that is supposed to light up the 14.0 light if alternator is charging it does not.
Does this alternator have to run 3000 rpm to start charging and then the idot light will show alternator is charging. If so I do not have a gauge to tell when 3000 rpm is reached I guess this is full throttle I do not run full throttle with this tractor this could be a problem for me.

I tried the gauge on my Ford 601 workmaster and the gauge show the alternator is working in idle speed.
So I am pretty sure the gauge works.
1062.jpg
1065.jpg
 
What did you connect the # 1 spade terminal to?
Number one terminal needs to connect to idiot light and then the ignition switch. The light should light when the alternator is NOT charging and switch is on.

To convert the alternator to one wire, the internal regulator will have to be changed to one wire type.
DelcoWiring.jpg
 
13.5 - 14.5 volts is a normal charging voltage. The voltage will generally increase as the battery gets charged.

It looks like you have a #12 or #14 wire to the alternator. It really should be #10 or you might see voltage drop on it which would indicate lower voltage.
 
(quoted from post at 21:20:30 11/19/13) How do I convert a new Delco-Remy to 1 wire alternator?
This is for my Ford 850 conversion from 6 volt to 12 volt
I connected a wire from spade post #2 to alternator Battery post to make a 1-wire alternator.
I ran a wire from alternator to battery post on 3 post solenoid where the battery thermal positive side is.
I ran a wire from solenoid battery post to off side of switch.
Tractor runs, but trying to figure if alternator is charging.
I have this light (idot) that is supposed to light up the 14.0 light if alternator is charging it does not.
Does this alternator have to run 3000 rpm to start charging and then the idot light will show alternator is charging. If so I do not have a gauge to tell when 3000 rpm is reached I guess this is full throttle I do not run full throttle with this tractor this could be a problem for me.

I tried the gauge on my Ford 601 workmaster and the gauge show the alternator is working in idle speed.
So I am pretty sure the gauge works.
1062.jpg
1065.jpg
Click to expand...
ith your connection(I ran a wire from alternator to battery post on 3 post solenoid where the battery thermal positive side is. ), the ammeter is not going to measure charging current. Should be solenoid batt terminal to ammeter, then from other ammeter to alt output stud.
 
You simply do not do it due to many reasons. #1 takes high RPM to start it charging. #2 can drain the battery if not used often enough and #3 a 3 wire is very simple to wire up and works better.
 
Don"t know about the wiring but some of those alternaters need to be spun about 800 rpm to self excite not 3000 rpm. The simplest way to tell if an alternater is charging is to put a metalic object(wrench) to the center of the alternater while its running and see if it is magnetized. If it is then its charging.
 
I buy an oil pressure switch that closes with oil pressure and opens when the engine is off. I run all three wires to the switch on one side and run the other too the battery. done it 50 times and it never failed. if you wanna get fancy, you can run one of the wires thru an amp gauge!
 
Shealray,

I run one wire conversions on every thing I own. I have never had it drain a battery. But I will say, yet. I have been doing it for 20 years.

So what do you need?
- 10si alternator, a self exciting regulator, and about 10 minutes. If your handy with tools. I won"t cover the install, just google or youtube, tons of instructions out there.

A little caution. To get the regulator excited and charging you need to be in the 3000-3500 ALTERNATOR rpm, not tractor. So keep that in mind. If your Ford is idling at 400 rpm with a 4:1 pulley ratio (1600 alternator rpm) you wont start charging until you hit 900-1000 rpms.

This setup runs on my Allis Chalmers WC and keeps both batteries charged with no problem. I did that tractor back in 1997. I run two battery because I have a Western snow plow and big lights for plowing in the winter.

Rick
 
I guess I should clarify one thing. The alternator will start to charge at a lower rpm than stated, you just wont be making much "juice".

I have most of the Delco rpm vs. amperage charts for different model alternators but I cant seem to find where I put them. A good friend was an alternator engineer for AC-Delco for many years and gave me a lot of books and such when he retired.

hope this helps
Rick
 
I agree with Old. I buy used alternators from a salvage place for $15 If I am the only customer or $20 if others are standing around. I make my own brackets. I use a clearance light. Total cost less than $25, I have more tractors than batteries.
 
Running a wire from #2 terminal to the main
alternator output post does not make it a "one
wire" alternator. It would be a "two wire" setup
that won't work. I'm calling it "two wire" since
you've got two wires added.

To convert to a "one wire" you need a $10 self-
excite regulator. Once installed - just one wire
is hooked to the alternator at the output post.

With a non-self-excite regulator on a Delco 10SI,
12SI or 18SI, you hook #2 to the output post -
like you already did. Then hook a third wire to #1
that provides initial "excite" current from a
switched power source. If running from an IGN
terminal on a key switch - a 5 amp diode should be
hooked in series so you can shut the tractor off.
If using a ACC terminal -no diode needed.

If it's charging - you read 14 volts or more.
Alternator also has a "full charge" regulator
bypass in the back. Just stick a small screwdriver
or nail in the back to make it get "full field"
and charge.
 
(quoted from post at 06:02:46 11/20/13) Running a wire from #2 terminal to the main
alternator output post does not make it a "one
wire" alternator. It would be a "two wire" setup
that won't work. I'm calling it "two wire" since
you've got two wires added.

To convert to a "one wire" you need a $10 self-
excite regulator. Once installed - just one wire
is hooked to the alternator at the output post.

With a non-self-excite regulator on a Delco 10SI,
12SI or 18SI, you hook #2 to the output post -
like you already did. Then hook a third wire to #1
that provides initial "excite" current from a
switched power source. If running from an IGN
terminal on a key switch - a 5 amp diode should be
hooked in series so you can shut the tractor off.
If using a ACC terminal -no diode needed.

If it's charging - you read 14 volts or more.
Alternator also has a "full charge" regulator
bypass in the back. Just stick a small screwdriver
or nail in the back to make it get "full field"
and charge.
Click to expand...

I am a newbe so help me understand the following:
I have a simple 2 poll switch off and on what is ACC terminal?
Can I get the 5 amp diode at the parts store? I then wire the diode in between the key switch and the #1 spade poll on the alternator.
I have power to the switch via positive side of solenoid where positive side of battery is connected. So I take #1 spade post from alternator wire to switch.
When switch is turned on power will travel to the alternator excite it (tell it to start charging.)
Regarding the” full field” charge bypass. Where is the hole located in the back?
Is this a one-time only setting and must be done first before starting.
I stick the small screwdriver in and take it out does this press a tab of sorts?
Will my alternator now charge at lower rpm or will it take a while to see it charge?
 
why do you want to do that? the two wire set up with the Delco SI regulator works just fine and is available anywhere
 

Thank you for the picture it says a thousand words to me.
I was thinking of getting a gauge to put in place of the charge light. This gauge is simple and I can get it at orchelins, it only shows volts. Will it be accurate enough to tell if alternator is charging at this point? Should the gauge read 14 volts if alternator is charging?
 

Well I did not know better and brought what I thought was the same as what was installed. However I am learning so much. That is what life is learning.
Ask me how to play piano and I can tell you how because this is what I have done for years. So now I have to make my little tractor run to feed my horses (cut Hay) for my childrens free riding school.

Thanks for the help
 
The Diagram MMIDLAM posted gives you one of the 10 or so correct ways to wire a 3 wire alternator. You can buy a new Chev alternator for say a 1980 Chev pick up no power any thing no AC for around $45 for O'Reilly's and it has a life time warranty on it then wire it up as he posted. If you need to talk to some one as to how feel free to e-mail me and I'll give you my home number so I can explain it better. Been doing 12 volt conversion for decades now
 

Remember I am a newbe and need help. Tell be about the #10 gauge wire.
The wire I am using has this stamped on it.
E51583(ul)awgcu type mtw or thwn or thhn or gasoline and oil resistant 11 or awm 600 volts vw-1---c(ul) t90 nylon or twn75 ft 1
I do not see the gauge can I measure the outside with my calipers to see what it is?
 
Very hard to explain the gauge sizes of wire on here. Best way I can think of to explain it is this. Go to an auto parts store and ask to see there wire rolls. Look at 10 gauge 12 gauge and 14 gauge. Those are the most common size wires used on a tractor other then the battery cables which is 12 volts can be 2 gauge or if 6 volts 0 or 00. Me I can look and know but I have been doing this for decades
 
850 ought to have ammeter and mmidlams diagram does not show one. Hook that ammeter up correctly & know if charging or not.
 
I'll try to answer in the order you asked.

"I have a simple 2 poll switch off and on what is
ACC terminal? "

"ACC" is what you get on an auto or "universal"
ignition switch that are used on many tractors. A
universal switch will have two terminals that get
energized when the key is "on." ACC and IGN.
Both get energized when the key is "on" but they
are isolated from each other when the key is
"off." This way . . a Delco can have #1 spade
terminal wired to the ACC and the tractor's
ignition system hooked to the IGN on the key
switch. This is an easy way to have a tractor that
will shut off. Otherwise - the alternator will
keep charging after the key is "off" and backfeed
to the ignition system and the engine keeps
running.

"Can I get the 5 amp diode at the parts store? I
then wire the diode in between the key switch and
the #1 spade poll on the alternator."

Yes. Very cheap at a Radio Shack store. #276-1141
or #276-1143 for $2 gets you a pair of 3 amp
diodes you can wire in parallel. A # 55052252 gets
you a 5 amp NTE577.

"I have power to the switch via positive side of
solenoid where positive side of battery is
connected. So I take #1 spade post from alternator
wire to switch."

Yes, you can - but it needs a shut-off switch.
Even with that . . . if you've got a battery
ignition - once started - it probably will not
shut off. Same goes for a diesel with electric
shut-off. If you've got a magneto or a diesel with
mechanical shut off, it won't be a problem.
The Delco SI series only needs power to #1 to get
started. Once it's charging it will power itself
and needs nothing at #1.

"When switch is turned on power will travel to the
alternator excite it (tell it to start charging.)"

Yes, but even when that power is off - the
alternator will keep charging. It makes it's own
"excite" current once charging.

"Regarding the” full field” charge bypass. Where
is the hole located in the back?"

There is a small hole in the back of the
alternatort that lines up with a metal tab on the
internal regulator. You stick a metal prod in
there and ground the regulator. That makes run at
full charge. It is there as a "test port."

"Is this a one-time only setting and must be done
first before starting."

It is only there to diagnose problems. It
elimnates the voltage regulator from the
alternator. If it charges when you stick something
in there - and won't otherwise . . . then you
know the regulator is bad or not hooked up
properly.

"I stick the small screwdriver in and take it out
does this press a tab of sorts?"

Yes. It connects a small metal tab on back of the
regulator to the case/housing of the alternator.

"Will my alternator now charge at lower rpm or
will it take a while to see it charge? "

All Delco SI alternatorts need to turn around 1600
RPM to charge at all. So much depends on the
pulley ratio. That is - the size of crankshaft
pulley as compared to the pulley on the
alternator. Delcos on cars and trucks often have 3
to 1 or 4 to 1 ratios. That means the alternator
has a 1 3/4" or 2" pulley and the engine has a 5-
8" pulley on the crankshaft. For example. If
your tractor has a 6" pulley on the crank and a 2"
pulley on the alternator - you have a 3 to 1
ratio. Since the alternator must spin at 1600 RPM
to charge - your engine needs to run at 530 RPM at
least - for the alternator to do anything. Also
- alternators need to spin even faster to first
get working. Often 2400-2800 RPM. So, with a 3 to
1 ratio that means 800 - 950 RPM with a 3 to 1
ratio, or 1200-1400 RPM with a 2 to 1 ratio.
 
Are you thinking of "polarizing " via the shorting trick for full
output? No need to on an alternator.
For the little bit of wiring I would recommend going with a
three wire alternator . To avoid trickle drain and having to rev
to obtain excitation.
As previously stated under speeding the alternator with low
rpm tractor engines is a consideration. Lower output and less
effective cooling fan operation with low rpms .
 
(quoted from post at 09:05:59 11/20/13) I'll try to answer in the order you asked.

"I have a simple 2 poll switch off and on what is
ACC terminal? "

"ACC" is what you get on an auto or "universal"
ignition switch that are used on many tractors. A
universal switch will have two terminals that get
energized when the key is "on." ACC and IGN.
Both get energized when the key is "on" but they
are isolated from each other when the key is
"off." This way . . a Delco can have #1 spade
terminal wired to the ACC and the tractor's
ignition system hooked to the IGN on the key
switch. This is an easy way to have a tractor that
will shut off. Otherwise - the alternator will
keep charging after the key is "off" and backfeed
to the ignition system and the engine keeps
running.

"Can I get the 5 amp diode at the parts store? I
then wire the diode in between the key switch and
the #1 spade poll on the alternator."

Yes. Very cheap at a Radio Shack store. #276-1141
or #276-1143 for $2 gets you a pair of 3 amp
diodes you can wire in parallel. A # 55052252 gets
you a 5 amp NTE577.

"I have power to the switch via positive side of
solenoid where positive side of battery is
connected. So I take #1 spade post from alternator
wire to switch."

Yes, you can - but it needs a shut-off switch.
Even with that . . . if you've got a battery
ignition - once started - it probably will not
shut off. Same goes for a diesel with electric
shut-off. If you've got a magneto or a diesel with
mechanical shut off, it won't be a problem.
The Delco SI series only needs power to #1 to get
started. Once it's charging it will power itself
and needs nothing at #1.

"When switch is turned on power will travel to the
alternator excite it (tell it to start charging.)"

Yes, but even when that power is off - the
alternator will keep charging. It makes it's own
"excite" current once charging.

"Regarding the” full field” charge bypass. Where
is the hole located in the back?"

There is a small hole in the back of the
alternatort that lines up with a metal tab on the
internal regulator. You stick a metal prod in
there and ground the regulator. That makes run at
full charge. It is there as a "test port."

"Is this a one-time only setting and must be done
first before starting."

It is only there to diagnose problems. It
elimnates the voltage regulator from the
alternator. If it charges when you stick something
in there - and won't otherwise . . . then you
know the regulator is bad or not hooked up
properly.

"I stick the small screwdriver in and take it out
does this press a tab of sorts?"

Yes. It connects a small metal tab on back of the
regulator to the case/housing of the alternator.

"Will my alternator now charge at lower rpm or
will it take a while to see it charge? "

All Delco SI alternatorts need to turn around 1600
RPM to charge at all. So much depends on the
pulley ratio. That is - the size of crankshaft
pulley as compared to the pulley on the
alternator. Delcos on cars and trucks often have 3
to 1 or 4 to 1 ratios. That means the alternator
has a 1 3/4" or 2" pulley and the engine has a 5-
8" pulley on the crankshaft. For example. If
your tractor has a 6" pulley on the crank and a 2"
pulley on the alternator - you have a 3 to 1
ratio. Since the alternator must spin at 1600 RPM
to charge - your engine needs to run at 530 RPM at
least - for the alternator to do anything. Also
- alternators need to spin even faster to first
get working. Often 2400-2800 RPM. So, with a 3 to
1 ratio that means 800 - 950 RPM with a 3 to 1
ratio, or 1200-1400 RPM with a 2 to 1 ratio.
Click to expand...

WOW electrical 101 free thank you. Here is the diagram of what I believe will work any thoughts?
 

I am using my alternator the delcon-remy is a 3 wire alternator how do I wire it?
I sent a diagram I made with what I have learned from all you kind people.
Trying not to buy another alternator and use what the tractor has, a 3 pole solenoid.
This started because the other alternator was bad and had to be replaced. I had a lifetime warranty so I thought I was replacing the same type. Turns out I did not understand the other was not working until battery failed. So here I am learning as fast as I can.
 
(quoted from post at 13:09:08 11/20/13) moved ammeter & alt connection & ign sw feed point
Click to expand...

Please exsplain why you moved the ammeter and alt connection being as I know little about what I am doing? You must yuse paint like I did to edit picture.
Thanks
This is super fun
 
(quoted from post at 17:30:03 11/20/13)
(quoted from post at 13:09:08 11/20/13) moved ammeter & alt connection & ign sw feed point
Click to expand...

Please exsplain why you moved the ammeter and alt connection being as I know little about what I am doing? You must yuse paint like I did to edit picture.
Thanks
This is super fun
Click to expand...
Why? Because "I" do know what I'm doing! he he he! Sorry, couldn't resist the opening!

OK, where you had ammeter, it would measure startup excite current & after that, nothing. You want to know the net current going into battery (+) and/or the current exiting (-) the battery, so the ammeter needs to be in the wire connecting to battery. The other side of ammeter connects to all loads and sources(alternator output). Starter is exception, primarily due to starter current being 100 amps and more.
 

Makes since. I understand if I do not have a 5 amp diode the alternator will not shut off. Please explain in detail how this works.

Thanks for the class
 
(quoted from post at 17:58:24 11/20/13)
Makes since. I understand if I do not have a 5 amp diode the alternator will not shut off. Please explain in detail how this works.

Thanks for the class
Click to expand...
It isn't the alternator that will not shut off, it is the tractor engine that will not shut off, because the alt will send power back to the engine ignition coil even with ign sw turned off.
 
Why try to reinvent the wheel. Install a 194 bulb in the dash as a standard charge indicator light. Take a power source off the switched side of your key. Supply that to the bulb. Run the other pigtail to terminal 1 of the alternator. Then run a jumper from terminal 2 directly to the BAT terminal on the alt. Hook the Bat terminal to the battery side of your starter relay and you're done, with a charge indicator light. This setup will put the light out when it's charging.

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 15:51:04 11/20/13)
(quoted from post at 17:58:24 11/20/13)
Makes since. I understand if I do not have a 5 amp diode the alternator will not shut off. Please explain in detail how this works.

Thanks for the class
Click to expand...
It isn't the alternator that will not shut off, it is the tractor engine that will not shut off, because the alt will send power back to the engine ignition coil even with ign sw turned off.
Click to expand...


Well I’ll be.
I thought a switch had a gap so when in the off position electrical current could not jump it.
So the diode adds resistance (a gate keeper of sorts) on the wire to spade post #1 thus the alternator will not be allowed to leak energy and jump the switch gap? This seems like a one way door the diode has allowing energy in the direction of the alternator and adding resistance in the other direction keeping the switch in the off position. Does the diode need to be oriented in a certain direction when wire?
I noticed the lower wiring diagram showed a fuse. Is this to keep failure from doing damage to my electrical system? Should I put one in? If so what type?
I also have a question about the amp meter. What is a amp and a volt? Where will the amp meter gauge move to show the alternator is work? Should I put a voltage meter on? My instrument panel only has a spot for the amp meter. What is the easy way to add the volt meter? Or is this where you just test the volts once in a while with a gauge?
I keep all I learn from this web site in a computer subdirectory (folder) in word files and jpegs so I can
reflect back if I need it later or pass it on. Guess you might say I translate what is learned to “newbe” understanding. Thank you for helping a “newbe”.
If you every need a song written I can do that. I have a small midi computer system which allows me compose songs and apply instrument sounds to them. It is a very modest setup, but works for my demo songs.
 
(quoted from post at 10:18:16 11/21/13) Why try to reinvent the wheel. Install a 194 bulb in the dash as a standard charge indicator light. Take a power source off the switched side of your key. Supply that to the bulb. Run the other pigtail to terminal 1 of the alternator. Then run a jumper from terminal 2 directly to the BAT terminal on the alt. Hook the Bat terminal to the battery side of your starter relay and you're done, with a charge indicator light. This setup will put the light out when it's charging.

Rod
Click to expand...

My Ford 850 has 3 small gauges on instrument panel. Amp meter, oil pressure and temperature gauge
I want to keep them working. Amp meter is not hooked up. I ask questions not to make things difficult just to understand and learn.
Thanks for the assistance.
 
(quoted from post at 13:50:56 11/21/13)
(quoted from post at 15:51:04 11/20/13)
(quoted from post at 17:58:24 11/20/13)
Makes since. I understand if I do not have a 5 amp diode the alternator will not shut off. Please explain in detail how this works.

Thanks for the class
Click to expand...
It isn't the alternator that will not shut off, it is the tractor engine that will not shut off, because the alt will send power back to the engine ignition coil even with ign sw turned off.
Click to expand...


Well I’ll be.
I thought a switch had a gap so when in the off position electrical current could not jump it.
So the diode adds resistance (a gate keeper of sorts) on the wire to spade post #1 thus the alternator will not be allowed to leak energy and jump the switch gap? This seems like a one way door the diode has allowing energy in the direction of the alternator and adding resistance in the other direction keeping the switch in the off position. Does the diode need to be oriented in a certain direction when wire?
I noticed the lower wiring diagram showed a fuse. Is this to keep failure from doing damage to my electrical system? Should I put one in? If so what type?
I also have a question about the amp meter. What is a amp and a volt? Where will the amp meter gauge move to show the alternator is work? Should I put a voltage meter on? My instrument panel only has a spot for the amp meter. What is the easy way to add the volt meter? Or is this where you just test the volts once in a while with a gauge?
I keep all I learn from this web site in a computer subdirectory (folder) in word files and jpegs so I can
reflect back if I need it later or pass it on. Guess you might say I translate what is learned to “newbe” understanding. Thank you for helping a “newbe”.
If you every need a song written I can do that. I have a small midi computer system which allows me compose songs and apply instrument sounds to them. It is a very modest setup, but works for my demo songs.
Click to expand...
No energy is "jumping the open switch gap". Power to coil to keep engine running after ign key is turned off comes from the alternator, not the battery, if you don't have the diode. Diode is analogous to a plumbing check valve that only lets water flow one way, only here we are speaking of current only one way. Yes direction is important....diode case will have a line/band of paint around one end....that end goes toward the alternator. Ford didn't use fuse, but others did....suit yourself on that. Google amp, Google volt. Older vehicles used ammeter to show battery charge (+) or discharge (-) and newer ones tend toward simple idiot lights or voltmeters to indicate 12v or less and 13 to 14 volts fully charged/charging. Again, your choice. Some remove ammeter & plug voltmeter in its place (obviously a wiring difference). I use a hand held voltmeter when I have a problem & am troubleshooting.

The diode is easy/simple/no mounting/etc. whenever going to alternator from generator where the original did not already have an idiot light. If it already had idiot light as do some later tractors, then simply use it or on yours add one if you like....again , your choice. Idiot light is placed in the circuit in the same place as diode. Light bulb instead of diode. GM actually used a resistor (10 Ohms/6.25Watts) in parallel with the light bulb, if you want the excite to be exactly as GM did it.
 
I'd just get a light that will fit in the blank hole ahead of the steering wheel and hook that up. It's of more use to you than the ammeter...
The 801 series tractors used a light in that hole.

Rod
 
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