Pouring concrete around poles

The poles are grean treated and bedded in crushed concrete. Would you skin the pole with tin, plastic sheet or foam sheeting (blue board) first? TIA Merle

They make a plastic piece that is made just for that. ALL the poles I have ever seen put in concrete rotted away in less then 5 years

Personally, I would concrete a short length of 'H' (I?) iron into the ground and bolt my wooden posts to it, keeping them slightly up off the ground.
Even f you could find galvanised tubing that the posts would slot into, that would be even better. Remember to drill the holes in the steel first before concreting them in....it may be easier!
Good luck with what ever you do.....Sam

I would coat the sides but not the bottom with tar/foundation sealer

Hey Merle,

I have set a lot of posts like that and if you have them bedded in something that will drain I have just poured dry sackrete in the hole and a bucket or so of water on top.

The crete will draw moisture from the soil and be solid in two days.

Have pulled some that were in 20 years and the posts (treated) were still perfectly sound.

Brad

That is strange and this subject has been debated on here more than the ethanol gas thing. I am 70 + Years old and accepted method here by almost ever one is . dig the hole place half sack quickcreet in hole place the post, tamp the other half in good , fill the hole up to within 6 inches off the top and pour in DRY quickcreet. Pour floof 4 to 6 inches as you want. Have buildings here that are over 40 years old with this method with no rot or failure. Also have just finished relocating a mill shed that was constructed this way. Shed was built with treated post 22 years ago and the post were reusable and showed not one sign of decay or rot. Must be like the gas thing just depends on soil type and location. Have a 60 by 200 building that the builder (National company) chose to use laminated or really just four 2X8 glued together. The concrete floor was poured around the post and building is 18 years old with no sign of failure.

Old what you are calling POLES, were they treated post made for use under ground or just mill lumber?

Well duh yes treated ones as the guy say he is going to use why else would I answer him

Sorry but treated post and concrete do not mix and even state DOT does not use concrete on 4X4 post for signs. Fine in dry areas but in areas like Missouri bad idea

Several years ago I fenced about 7 miles of fence for the corps of Engineers. We used H braces and corner posts that were treated and set in concrete. The fence was on a river bank. About 5 years later, I was fishing on this river and decided to go up and look at the fence. The treated posts were rotted off and the only thing that was still standing were the metal t-posts. The Corps decided to get cresote posts after that.
Roy

I'm putting up a pole barn and the poles are laminated 2 X 8s. Want to cement it out in the future and hear all the stories about not pouring concrete next to the poles.

I think having drainage material in the bottom of the hole is the major thing to prevent rot.

Treated lumber is not created equal! Be sure you get lumber rated for ground contact.

Here we are required by code to set the posts on 6" of concrete. Some pour 6" in the hole, others use a pre cast 6 inch concrete cookie to set the posts on. We are then required to pour 6" of concrete around the base of the post.
Some guys fill the rest of the hole with dirt. Some pour concrete to grade.

Treated 2X8's that you get at the box stores are not rated for ground contact! If you use the correct lumber you shouldn't have any problems with rot whether you wrap the posts or not.

The manufacturer"s are required to test their treatment to see how long it lasts, and the amount of chemical in your rear deck posts or your fence-posts is not much. It is still rated "Ground Contact", but it"ll get ate away in short time.
The amount of chemical for building poles is more. It is rated "Ground Contact - Structure Critical". Here"s the amount you need to check for, look at the end label on each pole. Might very well be a special order from a home-town lumber yard.
“NatureWood” Alkaline Copper Quaternary ACQ Minimum 0.60 pcf for Ground Contact / Critical Structures / Foundation Use

“Micro-Pro / Smart-Sense” Micronized Copper Quaternary MCQ Minimum 0.60 pcf for Ground Contact / Critical Structures / Foundation Use

“Micro-Pro / Life-Wood” Micronized Copper (tebuconazole) Azole MCA Minimum 0.23 pcf for Ground Contact / Critical Structural / Foundation Use

Are you talking about backfilling in the post hole or pouring a concrete floor up to the edge of the pole ?

You do not want to backfill a post hole with concrete.

Concrete cookie in bottom of hole and backfill with whatever dirt you removed. Best to tamp it in,but anymore the builders don"t do this. I had to go back in and tamp in and water down to get it settled around my last building poles as the builders were too lazy to tamp them !

You need the dirt settled in around the posts then you can pour a concrete floor. Don"t worry about the 4 to 6" of slab touching the post or kick boards as when it dries it will pull away from them slightly anyhow. Anything put in there like expansion ? will just leave more of a gap when it deterorates.

Can get you photos of one 20+ years old with NO problems to date. Pretty much the accepted way to do things in these parts.

Bingo, Mike!

We used a 12" auger for drilling our holes 4ft down and set the post on a 12"diameter x 8" thick pad.The way I explained it to my customers was imagine pushing a pencil down in plain dirt vs. pushing the pencil down in the dirt resting on a solid piece of CURED concrete foundation. The poles/columns are bearing the weight of the entire building.
If grade was off we used longer poles to make sure we had 4ft in the ground.
We also used hot-dipped galvanized nails to attach two cca 2x6x24" scabs on each side of the pole base to act as a small barb and give more bearing area for the post base to rest on the pad. (1-1/2" x 5-1/2" x 1-1/2" = 8-1/2" vs 4-1/2" you get with 3 -2x6's nailed together to make a column.) Back filled and TAMPED IN with dirt/clay only. Can't recall in the 30+ years I was in the lumber/building business I ever saw dry 2 bag mix cement/sand/rock utilized in a foundation, road, sidewalk or for anything other than for a sales gimmick by a pole barn salesmen. 4-6 bag cement-sand-rock-water mixed in proper proportion=concrete.
Ground Contact not good enough - its the amount of treatment in the wood that counts. .60 lb/per cu ft of wood treatment is required for below grade. Ground contact for is for consumer grade decks etc. and generally is only .40 or less retention. Have seen many penta and .40 cca failures at ground contact - to date no .60 or higher.
Pole barn construction conversation is almost in the same category as religion, politics or I still can't believe the Cards lost the World Series!

Can't use dirt here- building dept. says either concrete or crushed rock. I do the crushed rock, and have never had any problems. Our soil gets very wet in winter (often have water saturation at 2 feet down in winter), so post trapped in concrete will rot.

.40 is not rated for ground contact, or I should say it's not legal for ground contact here.
Other than the footing or cookie, plus 6" of concrete around the base of the posts (which is code here) most guys don't fill the holes with concrete. There are still a few around that do when there's going to be a concrete floor. The way they do it the floor sits on the concrete that's around the posts, which is sitting on the footing.