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Briggs Stratton CEO On Ethanol

Where will the alternative be? I was waiting to hear the answer from the Briggs & Stratton CEO. I asked that at the NAPA store, they said the only place you can buy ethanol free gas is aircraft or marine supplies.
 
We have several stations that carry what they say is pure gasoline, no ethanol. Im having problems getting the vid to load, but is talking about E85 or E10?
 
Several gas stations around here (Southern Virginia) offer ethanol free gas, one station 2 miles from me offers it in both low and high octane. Although it runs about $.40/gal higher than ethanol gas, I gladly pay the extra price to run it in my Farmall H, chain saws, lawn mowers and other small engines.
 
(quoted from post at 06:52:18 11/12/13) Where will the alternative be? I was waiting to hear the answer from the Briggs & Stratton CEO. I asked that at the NAPA store, they said the only place you can buy ethanol free gas is aircraft or marine supplies.
Click to expand...
A lot of stations around here sell non-ethanol gas. My wife's 98 Grand Cherokee won't hardly run on ethanol gas. Runs fine on pure gas.
A friend drove to south Florida with ethanol gas and drove back without. Checked mileage and even though the pure gas was more expensive to purchase, he saved money with better mileage using it.
Richard in NW SC
 
The advice the CEO gave is E85 will shorten the life of small engines. However if that's true E10 can't be good either?
 
Seems to me he his down grading his own Briggs engines if they won't use a fuel that has been around for 40 years.

Maybe they better redesign the engines.

Ford, Chevy, Dodge and all the other major manufacturers did.

Ethanol is here to stay. They best get on the band wagon if they want to compete.

Gary
 
that's a common thought , the 4 cycle people need to get it in gear ,.. ,.redisgning carbs is not all of it though for 2 cycle motors ,, had a wise shop guy that worx on 2 cycles show me what happens in PERFECT FAIL conditions ,. it seems that the moisture in the gas sometimes can evaporate into the crank bearings of the 2 cycle ,, moisture breeds moisture and then you get rust formin in the bearings whenever it sets for monthes on a concrete floor in a damp garage ,,.. perhaps the bearing s need redesigned and a better crankcase ventin system too ..
 
He said (CEO)- if you put anything higher than E10 in these engines it can ruin them. The take away is he is against E15 which has been authorized for sale in some states.
 
I don't know of any station here in Iowa that doesn't offer ethanol free gas.

The reason most stations in other states don't offer ethanol free is they would have to put in another pump. Years back not all stations offered ethanol free here in Iowa. But as old pumps and tanks were replaced they made provisions for another product.

Gary
 
If thats all hes saying, Ill continue to run whatever is cheapest, except E85, in my "small engines". Ill save the E85 for my tractors! It puts nothing to rest, as far as Im concerned. There will still be people who say its bad. Ive NEVER had a E10 related issue or failure cause by the fuel. I have had problems with NEGLECT of a fuel system, but never caused by the gas itself.
 
I see it is a video and as such I can't hear it here at work.

I did solve all my Briggs & Stratton problems years ago. How you ask ? Kawasaki !
 
Tend to agree.

I've been running E10 in old Kohler engines for over 20 years and the only clogged carbs I dealt with are when I buy some one else's problem to rebuild. Seems to run OK in the Tecumseh powered mower and the Yamaha powered generator (lots of sitting time in that thing) too.

Now that I think about it I don't own a anything powered by a Briggs engine - looks like I made a good choice.
 
I agree, Gary. I have run ethanol gasoline in every spark ignition engine I have on my farm for over 35 years with NO problems whatsoever. Any "problems" were created by the gunk in the gas used previously which the ethanol cleaned out. In fact, I have LESS fuel problems because of this. I even use it in my chain saw without any problems. All I have to do is shake the fuel each time I use it (which should be done anyway). If the stuff was crap like many think I wouldn't use it. I have used it with confidence for too many years to think ill of it. Mike
 
1- Chevy ford and dodge have made thier engines run on it, not great, just run because they had to. 2- a Iowa corn farmer telling me that ethanol is here to stay so deal with it is like external_link telling me external_link care is here to stay so just deal with it, I don't like either.
 
Briggs needs to get out of the dark ages and make their engines ethanol compliant. The car manufacturers did. Jim
 
The automobile manufacturers did so only because the nanny state forced them to do so.

Dean
 
"Ethanol is here to stay."

Actually, ethanol as a motor fuel is not here to stay, because it makes no economic sense here in the US.

Though it will likely be around for some number of years, economics will send it the way of the do do bird eventually

Stay tuned.

Dean
 
After reading these posts about ethanol fuel, I live in the land of lakes and all the marina's have ethanol free fuel, why is that????
 
The best way to deal with a company, like Briggs, that refuses to adapt, is to simply don't buy any of their products. The label on a Kohler gas tank states that E-10 is acceptable. If Kohler can do it, why can't Briggs?
 
What do you mean "no economic sense"?

It makes more economic sense to make fuel out of grain than it does to feed it to cattle.

The tax credit ended more than a year ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/business/energy-environment/after-three-decades-federal-tax-credit-for-ethanol-expires.html?_r=0
 
Isn't there a dead horse to beat somewhere? This has been discussed on here many times.

My two cents again. I've used e-fuels since they were started in the 70's. Never had any issues with them. I now use e-85 on occasion and still no issues.
 
You'd think no one ever had a gummed up carb or water in their gas prior to 1975 reading some posts.

A neglected engine will have issues no matter what product is used in it.

If you'd just let your stuff set for months on end with untreated fuel and never clean/replace your filters/fuel tanks you would have problems too.
 
Careful, 30 years ago we were still running on carbs, and no issues?? Lol. Your stretching things a little. Poor Jdseller got run off for far less claims.
 
That label has to be fairly new because I have a 5 year old garden tractor with a 24 HP Kohler and had to have the carb ($220.00) replaced this summer because of the damage done by Ethanol gasoline.
 
What didn't it run in?

The local gas stations (Caseys) started running E10 in 1981 or so. We put it in everything from F600s to F100s, Hs to 656s without issue other than when we first started using it we had a few fuel pumps fail that were loaded up with crap from the "straight gas" we had been using.

I still run it in my 1964 F600 without any issues and it sure aint fuel injected.
 
As soon as farmers start running every peice of equipment they own on 100% ethanol or biofuel, harvest all thier crops, pay all expenses, take a small profit and then turn what's left into alternative energy I will believe it makes good economic sense but until then I don't.
 
hey genius,,.. without competition from ethanol the BIG OIL companies will charge YOU all they can,,, YOU will have to go crying to BIG MA MA govm't to put some kind of windfall profits tax on the big oil co,to hold up YOUR Stagnated economy until everyone around you is competing for the last hundred bux in town ,. myself if I cant buy ethanol ,,, I WILLMAKE IT and have made it!,,. and used it! in the slant 6 massey 300 combine , and a DC case ,, both are still runnin fine ,,. so get back in Your GM or TOjohonda suzuzu and try it yourself ,, uhh , better scratch gm ,,. they have become primadonas that want the best and deliver the least
 
Dean, they can say it, it will destroy motors, but the idiots in DC have made it impossible for us to avoid it, so what are we to do? Once again, just like healthcare, the American Public is screwed.
 
Really hate to comment on this but "the car companies made their engines to run on the ethanol so small engine makers can too" is getting old. There's not a person on this board that would buy a fuel injected computer controlled catalytic converter equipped lawn mower, chain saw, or weed eater even if they could afford it.

The plain simple truth is ethanol either works for you or it don't so buy it accordingly & don't try to force someone else to use something that doesn't work for them.
 
It pitted the needle seat and this carb did not have a replaceable seat. The seat is machined into carb casting. Carb had black crap in bottom of bowl. At the same time I replaced fuel lines with lines that Ethanol will not effect and fuel filter that you can see fuel passing through them. I have since replaced all fuel lines and fuel filters on all my other garden tractors and now use additive that combats the corrosion of Ethanol.
 
We HAVE been running it thru carbs since 1974.

I had to replace two gas filters in my 1971 Torino. Since then I have not had a single issue with ethanol.

Once you guys get all the junk cleaned out of your older tanks you will be fine as well.

I have run in in all my tractors since then as well.

MTA,H,460,560,300,AC-C,D17 Oliver 77, and 880. I have not put gas in my MTA for 3 years. It has 10% ethanol in it and it will start right off and run fine.

Cars and trucks with carbs-71 Torino, 75 Lemans, 74 chevy 3/4 ton, 79 F150. 79 f150 has 250,000 miles and had the engine rebuilt at 175,000 and still runs with 2 year old 10% Ethanol in the tank.

Lawn mowers and chain saws have used ethanol since 75 as well. Had one hose on a 4 year old weed eater go bad. Only small engine issue in 38 years of usage.

Ever read the caps on IH fuel tanks.

Buy Clean Fuel-Keep It Clean.

Gary
 
Not here to offend anyone... but I work at an ethanol plant... and have for 5 years.. Will it damage an engine??? yes.. but only if not used properly. Taking E85 and dumping it into an engine that isn't designed to run at the higher combustion temps that it produces can cause damage... but to do that your basically going to have to take an engine and run it at full load all day on E85 to do the damage... and normal engine under normal circumstances... no, it will not cause any damage...
As far as it corroding parts... A corrosion inhibitor is added to it at the point of shipping along with it being denatured by adding 5% gas to it.
Does ethanol reduce mileage??? yes.
Ethanol has a btu rating per pound of about 76000
Gasoline has a btu rating per pound of about 116000
pretty obvious that you are going to get less power per pound of fuel.

The real problem with ethanol is not at the producer... its at the purchaser.
ALL ethanol produced in the US is purchased by the oil companies to be blended... ALL OF IT
now, If I am blending 10% ethanol with an octane rating of 110 to 114 with gasoline and only getting 87 or 89 for an overall octane rating... just how low of an octane gas are they blending it with??? The answer for that is 75 octane gas for and 87 octane blend... What is happening is that the oil companies are selling crappier gas by blending it off with ethanol the make it acceptable.... The problems everyone has experienced is not the ethanol... its the gas the blend it with is of very poor quality and couldn't be sold on the open market without the addition of ethanol.

Do I believe that ethanol is the answer to our energy problem??? absolutely not..
But we have to start somewhere... right?
I believe that every consumer should be able to choose...

Finally.... for those of you that complain the loudest about ethanol....
Please feel free to come up with a better alternative..... Gas wont be here forever....
ThanKs
 
Ever wonder why Aviation Gas is required (I think by federal regulations) for use in aircraft? Or why Marine Gas is available for and used in Marine engines? Could it be that it is because it is "difficult" to walk to get help if either type of those engines fail in service? Just a thought. Gordon
 
I haven't had any ethanol related problems in my newer vehicles or even with newer B&S powered stuff.
I have had ethanol related issues with older small engines, and had carb, fuel pump and fuel line problems on multiple cars and trucks caused by ethanol back in the early days of it's usage. The rubber used in those components back then was not ethanol compatible.
Ethanol is still causing problems for those with vintage cars. IMO there should be a non-ethanol option. Even if it costs a bit more. Unfortunately as it is now finding ethanol free gas could mean a substantial road trip for many.

Wasn't the CEO of B&S talking about E15? My newer B&S stuff runs fine on E10.

I heard something interesting recently about an alternative source of ethanol. Someone is working on a way to produce ethanol from kudzu.
 
HayRack, THAT is exactly what I suspected is happening. I've been using the E10 blend for at least 40 years with NO problems, but I know folks who live in other parts of the U.S. that HAVE experienced problems with E10. The only conclusion I could come up with is that the ethanol was blended with crappy gasoline.

Oh, and for the guy that claims the vintage car owners are having issues with ethanol because the fuel systems are not compatible, well, I use E10 and even E85 in my 2 1940 tractors with no problems. How much more VINTAGE can you get?
 
You get anywhere near water, and the boat places sell it, as does regular stations. We are about 45 minutes north of Lake of the Ozarks and several stations around here sell No alcohol, premium gas. About $.40 a gallon higher, but worth it.

Gene
 
Rusty Farmall,
I regularly run E10 and have run E35 in my 1973 Buick Regal... The car is bone stock with the factory 4bbl carb and 137000 on it... never been touched. I have never had any problem with it other than it idles just a tad lower on E35.
 
Coleman fuel is naphtha, much lower octane.A fellow who ran out of gas dumped in Coleman fuel.It got him to the gas station but the ping and knock were bad.Try it..
 
My Kohler K301 service manual, first printed in 1965 states that unleaded gasoline, 15% MTBE, and 10% ethanol are approved for use in the K series engines. So Kohler has been building ethanol compatible engines for a long time. As I read it, they seem mostly concerned about octane rating and they also recommend buying and storing small engine fuels in small quantities around 2 gallons so it can be used before it gets stale. Seems like they had that figured out for a long time too.
 
Better alternative?

Hmm.... Wouldn't it be great if we could find some combustible liquid that was the byproduct of something else, was going to be thrown out anyway and could power a car. Actually, that's what gasoline started out as. It was a byproduct of kerosene production that was going to be thrown out anyway.

What we really need is to phase in several alternative fuels simultaneously. Instead of moving all of our eggs from one basket into just one other basket, let's try a variety of baskets. Ethanol is good for some. Bio-diesel is also good. CNG, coal oil, plug-in electric, etc.
 
(quoted from post at 20:25:38 11/12/13)

Oh, and for the guy that claims the vintage car owners are having issues with ethanol because the fuel systems are not compatible, well, I use E10 and even E85 in my 2 1940 tractors with no problems. How much more VINTAGE can you get?
Click to expand...
Just because you don't have problems with it in your tractors doesn't mean hot rodders and restorers don't have problems with it in their cars. It's well documented on the old car sites.
 
Most of you know I'm mostly
pro-ethanol, but I too have seen
problems with rubber parts in
older car fuel systems. An old
tractor has no rubber parts in
the fuel system except for
diaphragms in some 2 bangers
and maybe sediment bowl
gaskets. Never heard of a
neoprene tipped float needle
giving trouble. Jim
 
What kind of 1940 tractors? IHC in late 1920s had metal floats instead of cork for ethanol fuels used in the southern sugar growing areas and around some docks that used ethanol instead of gasoline. 1930s was some other ethanol fuels varying markets so the "all -fuel" tractors were designed for distillate, kerosene, and ethanol, methanol spiked fuel blends as used in Europe many times-especially before the used of leaded fuels. A 1940 "All-Fuel" H or the last of the F14, F20, F30s would be happy with a 10% mix, would work with the E85 from Minnesota 5-10 years ago. Clean the crud from tank, lines, filters, float area and set the preheat to warm the ethanol just like the distillates and go plowing- this was demonstrated in Minnesota when the E85 first came out at a couple of plow days with old JD A/B and couple IHC F20, H, Ms. State got some of the antique people to do the demonstration- Red Power had article on the IHC tractors using it and operating procedures- they also mentioned in passing the Green Machines. F12 and F14 were watched close -the fuel pump issue was a worry, don"t know how that turned out but fuel pumps on those little critters sometimes picky with gas anyway.
 
The more humid the climate where you live, the more trouble you will have with small engines running E10 or E15 blend gas. The problem is in no way limited to Briggs and Stratton. I live in south eastern VA, and until recently I was running E10 gas in all of my small engines due to the distance involved to travel to a marina. This year, I had to replace the carb on a Tecumseh 10 Hp engine on a 5KW generator due to internal clogging and corrosion. Also, I had to rebuild the carb on my Partner gas cut off saw. The tip on the needle/seat had swelled up and broken off. Now the Kohler Command 25 HP on my zero turn is running and idling rough, and will need the carb rebuilt or replaced. Also the Kohler K341 on my garden tractor will only run on 3/4 choke, which based on experience tells me that ethanol blend gas has absorbed water vapor from air, condensed in the fuel tank, and caused internal corrosion. The cost to individuals and small businesses in the southern half of the US due to these problems is depressing. On the bright side, gas stations and fuel wholesalers in my area are scrambling to add ethanol free gas pumps. It is now convenient for me to buy e-free gas in my area. I am marking all of my small engine gas tanks with the word ethanol with a circle and a slash to remind myself never to ruin another small engine fuel system with this stuff.
 

At the end of the video the label on the snow blower read "use E10 fuel". Jeff Lock was the one making things up. The CEO simply cautioned against use of E15.
 
This one will stay as volatile as the fuel for the forseeable future.

IMHO - just saying that "I never had any ethanol related problems" does NOT amount to positive proof for or against ethanol. It is a well documented fact that ethanol reduces gas mileage and is corrosive. I personally feel that the choice should be made available - BY LAW if necessary, and let the marketplace make the decision.

BTW, the RFS act mandates the use of renewable fuels by certain amounts, but E10 fuel does not even count in the tally of renewable fuels. E85 and biodiesel are the ones that count towards RFS standards.
 
Depends on your definition of forever.

Many scientists believe we have at least 300 years supply of oil. Long enough that we will have naturally move don to something else by then. Hopefully something market driven and not government imposed.

Some scientists think the earth is still creating more oil all the time.
 
Very clever how that Fox guy put words in the CEO's mouth. Maybe a little creative editing was applied as well. Somehow, I don't think the CEO of Briggs & Stratton wanted to go on the record as saying "don't buy our products because if you do and run the only fuel available to you they'll fail", but that's exactly how he came across.

Rather than take the Fox-filtered version, how about reading the actual OPEI press release at the link below? Although it's hardly flattering to ethanol, it's quite clear that the official OPEI position is that E10 is OK and E15 is not.

The reality is it nearly impossible for most folks to purchase ethanol-free gasoline. And anyone who takes a fuel supplier's word that their gas is ethanol-free without actually testing it is a fool. E10 is what we're going to get at the pump for the forseeable future.

I've watched over the past ten years or so how the prevailing attitude towards ethanol on this forum has pivoted 180 degrees, from pro to con. My position is unchanged: Large-scale production of corn-based ethanol for fuel can't be justifed based on economic or environmental reasons. It exists for political reasons alone.
OPEI press release.
 
Mark I read the OPEI press and that is what the small engine dealer around here have been telling people for years. My Echo dealer told me something the other day that I never thought about. If you go to a filling station with multiple grade fuel pumps but use one nozzle to dispense all grades that you should pump several gallons in your truck or car before putting it in your container insuring that you are getting the fuel you want.
 
> If you go to a filling station with multiple grade fuel pumps but use one nozzle to dispense all grades that you should pump several gallons in your truck or car before putting it in your container insuring that you are getting the fuel you want.

Which is why I don't fuel my motorcycle until it's nearly empty.
 
I agree and pump a couple gallons into the pickup everytime. If you want non-ethanol gas make sure it is all non-ethanol.
 
Ive found a lot of neoprene tipped valves stuck shut.Small engines with a soft seat gave a lot of trouble with sticking shut.I kept a good supply of replacements on hand.Since the sticking was a part time problem it was hard to repair.
 
The car companies have said no to E15.Not just a small engine problem.Chain saw dealer told me to put a sample of fuel in a glass jar and watch for separation.
 
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