Having read the post about the engineering triumphs, and a good cross section of the replies, I noticed something. It seems that when it comes to the automotive side of things there are folks that have had good luck with newer vehicles and those that haven't had such good luck. Thing is it seems that most all of the situations fall at one or the other end of the spectrum, with some having nothing but problems and some getting hundreds of thousands of miles with no issues.
That got me to thinking about the same situation as it relates to both farm tractors and other heavy/construction equipment. Just curious as to what kind of luck you guys have had with the new equipment vs the old equipment?
Personally I've got a wide cross section of customers that have equipment ranging in age from a few years old to nearly 50 years old. Having worked on all of their equipment, having seen the problems encountered, and the parts availability and cost to make needed repairs, I've come to a personal conclusion. Equipment more or less reached it's peak back in the 70's and 80's and has gone downhill from there. Basically as things 'progressed', hydraulic pressures got higher, systems got more complex, electronics began taking over, and now there are even hybrid machines on the market. Through it all every advance claimed to help the customer, and in some ways they did. Ultimately though what I have experienced is this. The higher hydraulic pressures meant smaller parts doing the same work larger components originally did. This led to life expectancy/fatigue issues. More complex systems meant more parts to break....that did. Electronics, along the same lines, meant more sensitive components being forced to withstand conditions they couldn't handle (even though they were supposed to), or being screwed with by operators that could easily 'blow something up' simply because they wanted a radio in the cab (saw that cost a customer more than $3000 about 10 years ago). Now throw in the hybrid angle and, in most cases, you've now got all of the other issues wrapped together in one neat package....all in the name of saving energy and/or money for the customer.
Now, the downside to all of that, that no manufacturer, or dealership will tell you is this. One the ONLY way to get a brand new machine repaired is to call the dealership. Remember, they are often sending out a guy with nothing more than a year or two on the job, and few dealership schools under his belt, and charging $100 an hour. Thing is they can do it because they are the only ones that can afford the $10,000 for the computer diagnostic program to communicate with the machine. Gone are the guys like me with a lifetime of experience, charging a fair rate.....but who can't afford the $10,000 worth of software for each of the dozen brands of equipment we get routinely get calls on....much less the two dozen others we might see only once a year.... Basically a job that an independent could do for say $1,000, through a dealership might cost $5,000 or more.-----------Now take the availability of parts. With seemingly a new operating system on each new piece of equipment, there is no way a dealership can carry all of the parts in stock to keep anything other than parts for the brand new stuff, and the older stuff with lots of parts commonality, on the shelf. Even the there are many times the latest and greatest parts still have to be ordered from overseas or aren't in stock at all because they are too expensive to keep on the shelf.--------That leads to the simple matter of the cost of parts. Think about it a minute in terms of something common like an fuel injector. With many of the older machines you could get a brand new, mechanical injector for say $100, or a reman for say $75. With the new equipment it's not uncommon to give three to five times that, or more, for just one electronic injector.
I could go on and on, but this is already longer than I had planned so I'll end with this. The claims made by the equipment manufacturers, and our illustrious government/EPA are always that the new technology is both saving us money and saving the planet, but think about the reality of it all. One how much money is a high tech machine really saving you when the part that is designed to make the machine fuel efficient, and save you $3000 a year on fuel cost, stops working? Lets see, you've got a $4000 visit from the dealership to diagnose and repair the problem, the computer controlled part cost another $1000, and the machine was down for 5 days (((between diagnosis, parts on hand, and repair))) at another $2500 plus a day. Ultimately that one small problem cost $17,500, all so the machine could save you $3000 a year in fuel cost. Basically you've got to run over 5 years, with absolutely no problems, to even break even on that one repair. Sadly, nowdays a machine running 2000 hours a year, on average, is usually considered 'houred out' and in need of replacement somewhere around 5000 to 6000 hours. In other words before a machine financed on a 5 year loan is even paid off, it's typically worn out and in need of replacement by most major equipment manufacturers. In other words if you really want to make money, keep your machine until the warranty runs out and then make it someone elses' problem.......As far as the environment goes, that one part that went bad required 400 miles worth of travel for the dealerships nearest mechanic to make the repair. Then there was another 2000 miles between the airline and delivery company to get the part to the dealership. Then the miles put on by the parts guy back and forth to work that day, the 1/2 inch of paperwork required to track, receive, sell, and install the part, etc. In other words that 800 gallons of fuel you didn't burn, that would have 'saved the planet' and 'saved you money' all went away between the mechanic, he airplane, the parts guys car, and any other vehicle that might have gotten involved in moving one little part. Not to mention when that machine has to be 'recycled' into another machine within 10 years -vs- 25 or 50 years, the disparity of the savings claimed -vs- the true savings seems be reversed and just gets even further and further from what we're told it should be.
Maybe farm equipment is a bit different as I don't work on a lot of it, but for the problems I see and hear about I seriously doubt it.
So, again, what's your luck with old equipment vs new? Now I'm not taking about just the 'feel good facts' the dealerships spout, nor do I want to hear how great the new stuff is because it has heated seats and can do twice as much acreage per day than the old one..........What's the TRUE, TOTAL cost to you on repairs on the latest electronic marvel as opposed to the old standby you keep in the shed from yesteryear?
That got me to thinking about the same situation as it relates to both farm tractors and other heavy/construction equipment. Just curious as to what kind of luck you guys have had with the new equipment vs the old equipment?
Personally I've got a wide cross section of customers that have equipment ranging in age from a few years old to nearly 50 years old. Having worked on all of their equipment, having seen the problems encountered, and the parts availability and cost to make needed repairs, I've come to a personal conclusion. Equipment more or less reached it's peak back in the 70's and 80's and has gone downhill from there. Basically as things 'progressed', hydraulic pressures got higher, systems got more complex, electronics began taking over, and now there are even hybrid machines on the market. Through it all every advance claimed to help the customer, and in some ways they did. Ultimately though what I have experienced is this. The higher hydraulic pressures meant smaller parts doing the same work larger components originally did. This led to life expectancy/fatigue issues. More complex systems meant more parts to break....that did. Electronics, along the same lines, meant more sensitive components being forced to withstand conditions they couldn't handle (even though they were supposed to), or being screwed with by operators that could easily 'blow something up' simply because they wanted a radio in the cab (saw that cost a customer more than $3000 about 10 years ago). Now throw in the hybrid angle and, in most cases, you've now got all of the other issues wrapped together in one neat package....all in the name of saving energy and/or money for the customer.
Now, the downside to all of that, that no manufacturer, or dealership will tell you is this. One the ONLY way to get a brand new machine repaired is to call the dealership. Remember, they are often sending out a guy with nothing more than a year or two on the job, and few dealership schools under his belt, and charging $100 an hour. Thing is they can do it because they are the only ones that can afford the $10,000 for the computer diagnostic program to communicate with the machine. Gone are the guys like me with a lifetime of experience, charging a fair rate.....but who can't afford the $10,000 worth of software for each of the dozen brands of equipment we get routinely get calls on....much less the two dozen others we might see only once a year.... Basically a job that an independent could do for say $1,000, through a dealership might cost $5,000 or more.-----------Now take the availability of parts. With seemingly a new operating system on each new piece of equipment, there is no way a dealership can carry all of the parts in stock to keep anything other than parts for the brand new stuff, and the older stuff with lots of parts commonality, on the shelf. Even the there are many times the latest and greatest parts still have to be ordered from overseas or aren't in stock at all because they are too expensive to keep on the shelf.--------That leads to the simple matter of the cost of parts. Think about it a minute in terms of something common like an fuel injector. With many of the older machines you could get a brand new, mechanical injector for say $100, or a reman for say $75. With the new equipment it's not uncommon to give three to five times that, or more, for just one electronic injector.
I could go on and on, but this is already longer than I had planned so I'll end with this. The claims made by the equipment manufacturers, and our illustrious government/EPA are always that the new technology is both saving us money and saving the planet, but think about the reality of it all. One how much money is a high tech machine really saving you when the part that is designed to make the machine fuel efficient, and save you $3000 a year on fuel cost, stops working? Lets see, you've got a $4000 visit from the dealership to diagnose and repair the problem, the computer controlled part cost another $1000, and the machine was down for 5 days (((between diagnosis, parts on hand, and repair))) at another $2500 plus a day. Ultimately that one small problem cost $17,500, all so the machine could save you $3000 a year in fuel cost. Basically you've got to run over 5 years, with absolutely no problems, to even break even on that one repair. Sadly, nowdays a machine running 2000 hours a year, on average, is usually considered 'houred out' and in need of replacement somewhere around 5000 to 6000 hours. In other words before a machine financed on a 5 year loan is even paid off, it's typically worn out and in need of replacement by most major equipment manufacturers. In other words if you really want to make money, keep your machine until the warranty runs out and then make it someone elses' problem.......As far as the environment goes, that one part that went bad required 400 miles worth of travel for the dealerships nearest mechanic to make the repair. Then there was another 2000 miles between the airline and delivery company to get the part to the dealership. Then the miles put on by the parts guy back and forth to work that day, the 1/2 inch of paperwork required to track, receive, sell, and install the part, etc. In other words that 800 gallons of fuel you didn't burn, that would have 'saved the planet' and 'saved you money' all went away between the mechanic, he airplane, the parts guys car, and any other vehicle that might have gotten involved in moving one little part. Not to mention when that machine has to be 'recycled' into another machine within 10 years -vs- 25 or 50 years, the disparity of the savings claimed -vs- the true savings seems be reversed and just gets even further and further from what we're told it should be.
Maybe farm equipment is a bit different as I don't work on a lot of it, but for the problems I see and hear about I seriously doubt it.
So, again, what's your luck with old equipment vs new? Now I'm not taking about just the 'feel good facts' the dealerships spout, nor do I want to hear how great the new stuff is because it has heated seats and can do twice as much acreage per day than the old one..........What's the TRUE, TOTAL cost to you on repairs on the latest electronic marvel as opposed to the old standby you keep in the shed from yesteryear?
