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"Half" an Education (Rant)

J

JDNewbie

Member
Went to a home HS football game tonight. I don't usually attend. My ears perked up during the opening announcements when it was stated that "activities are the other half of a high school education" or something to that effect. I immediately thought, "half?"

All of the math, science, history, language, literature, writing, civics, music, shop, etc. added together only amount to half of an education, and the other half is football, basketball, volleyball, cross country, wrestling, tennis, swimming, bowling (yes, bowling), golf, and or track? I suppose they are lumping non-athletic activities (Scholars' Bowl, Debate, Forensics, etc.) in that half as well, but really? half?

Don't get me wrong, I see the value in sports and other activities, but half of an education? Really, 50%?

Maybe if we reduced it to just 25%, we could increase the emphasis in the other areas by 25% and kids would do better on the SAT? Or maybe the SAT should include a running, jumping, throwing, and sweating portion of the test? If that is truly half of a HS education, shouldn't it count for half of the score? Really, 1/2?

My wife said I was being to literal. I guess I am one of those strange people who believes words have meaning. I always assumed the "extra" in "extracurricular" had the same connotation as "extraterrestrial", meaning "outside of". I guess it now has the same connotation as "extra cheese", meaning "more of". In this case, apparently it means 50% of the curriculum.

Maybe jocks just need twice as much education because they are only half as smart?

End Rant.
 
I believe its not that the bullying is so much worse, its that the kids are taught to tell a teacher or walk away. Instead it should be left up to the kids on how to handle it. When you were a kid and someone picked on you they ended up with a bloody nose, now if that happens its an automatic suspension for defending yourself.
 
Sports have nothing to do with education. Felt that way in school, haven't change my mind yet. The only people the benefit from sports are the few "stars" and the coaches.
 
What and how they are taught in school these days, especially in the last 5 years or so is very questionable to me. I believe there is reasons for the Federal Government to meddle in local school academics, and the reasons are NOT good.
 
We always told our son not to start a fight, but not to be afraid to finish it. Well one day the principal called the wife and told her that our son was in a fight at school. She ask the principal if our son started it, he didn't know. She explained our policy on it and that was the end of story. Never heard another word about it.
 
So by the definition given that night, the students that [i:b92150d314]dont[/i:b92150d314] participate in those activites are only getting, at most, a 50% education. Nice school district you got there....
 

I doubt that our local school puts more than 30% of it's funds towards academics. But they have football, volleyball, boys and girls basketball and track. They also have tennis, golf, softball and baseball. The school buses are worn out going from one sporting event to another, some of them are over 200 miles away. I enjoy sports but there is a limit. It's got to the point where sports are the school and academics are extra curricular.
 
Amen to that brother.
Last year my son wanted to play football. It cost me $250. But.....the taxpayers were hit several years ago with a large hike for a stadium that was built at the high school. I would like to see it so that ANY person that has kids has to pay the whole bill for the kids education. (not the other taxpayers)
 
Our abundant school system doesn"t want students to be able to think for themselves. If someone is able to think for himself, he can"t be led around as easily.
 
(quoted from post at 12:54:46 10/26/13) Sports can and sometimes do have something to do with education, but not 50%.
Click to expand...

Care to explain what sports has to do with education beyond the very few that get scholarships? It's a GAME, games have nothing to do with education, nothing. Don't tell me about teaching team spirit or hard work or sportsmanship because none of that is going to help them pass tests or SATs. There isn't a football program in the nation that improves math scores, a basketball program that teaches American history or a wrestling program that teaches science. I played sports, it did nothing for me educationally.
 
Rich, It is not about sports, it is about balance. I see nothing wrong with sports, and participated in many sports, but. The but, is that sports has taken over many schools. Many of Americas worst schools have great sports teams, and little else. It has not fixed their lives.

I heard a shocking fact this week. Only 22 Universities in America generate enough revenue to cover the cost of their football program. Hundreds of other schools lump the cost of their sports programs into tuition, which has been going up at the rate of 9%/yr for the last decade. Justification was that it promotes school spirit and image. Guess the grads get to enjoy paying for that spirit in their student loans for the next 20 years.

We have a 22% highschool drop out rate in America, a recipe for disaster.

I was actually heartened to learn that some folks on this site seriously care about education, and understand its importance.
 
(quoted from post at 03:17:11 10/28/13) Rich, It is not about sports, it is about balance. I see nothing wrong with sports, and participated in many sports, but. The but, is that sports has taken over many schools. Many of Americas worst schools have great sports teams, and little else. It has not fixed their lives.

I heard a shocking fact this week. Only 22 Universities in America generate enough revenue to cover the cost of their football program. Hundreds of other schools lump the cost of their sports programs into tuition, which has been going up at the rate of 9%/yr for the last decade. Justification was that it promotes school spirit and image. Guess the grads get to enjoy paying for that spirit in their student loans for the next 20 years.

We have a 22% highschool drop out rate in America, a recipe for disaster.

I was actually heartened to learn that some folks on this site seriously care about education, and understand its importance.
Click to expand...
Yep socialized sports for the few at the expense of the many.
 
(quoted from post at 11:40:28 10/27/13)
(quoted from post at 12:54:46 10/26/13) Sports can and sometimes do have something to do with education, but not 50%.
Click to expand...

Care to explain what sports has to do with education beyond the very few that get scholarships? It's a GAME, games have nothing to do with education, nothing. Don't tell me about teaching team spirit or hard work or sportsmanship because none of that is going to help them pass tests or SATs. There isn't a football program in the nation that improves math scores, a basketball program that teaches American history or a wrestling program that teaches science. I played sports, it did nothing for me educationally.
Click to expand...

Sports DO help to teach the value of hard work, working with others, not giving up when things aren't going your way, etc. Look at job listings. Employers want team players. Hmm, where would a kid learn about teamwork?
With healthcare being such a hot topic these days, isn't learning about physical fitness important? What sports program doesn't put an emphases on physical fitness?
What can be learned participating in sports may not be as tangible as an SAT score, but many things that are learned participating in sports can be used in every day life.
There was a time when athletes got a free pass but things are different now. At least around here. Now they have to maintain a certain grade or they don't play. So sports are a way to motivate kids to study. A retired friend is a good example. He got a full ride scholarship. He had never been a serious student until he got to college. When he realized his future depended on his grades he became a good student. His degree got him job interviews. What he learned in sports got him a job that allowed him to move up through the industry and eventually run his own very successful business.

I didn't play sports, or take the SAT for that matter. I never had a prospective employer ask what my SAT score was but I did have one ask if I played sports. Your mileage may vary.
 

Hummm If sports teach so much and employers are so interested in team players, maybe sports should be compulsory.
 
(quoted from post at 21:17:11 10/27/13)

We have a 22% highschool drop out rate in America, a recipe for disaster.
Click to expand...
Where did you find that info? Was it from a credible source?
I know, I know. I saw it on the internet so it must be true, but
I thought 22% was unbelievably high so I googled "high school dropout rate".
This was the first the first result...
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=16
It shows the dropout rate has dropped from 12% in 1990 to 7% in 2011.

Other search results showed similar results.

And yes, even 7% dropout rate is way too high.
 
And the "fact" that only 22 universities football programs generate enough revenue to cover their expenses isn't totally accurate. It appears that only 22 [b:2e94cb39a7]Division 1[/b:2e94cb39a7] colleges generate enough revenue to cover their expenses.
Of the schools who's football programs don't cover their own expenses, how much do they fall short? It makes a big difference if they fall short by millions or just a few dollars.

For the record I have ZERO interest in college football and only a passing interest in pro football. I just don't take things I hear or read at face value. Sometimes you have to dig a bit to get the real facts.
 
(quoted from post at 17:49:41 10/26/13)
I doubt that our local school puts more than 30% of it's funds towards academics.......
Click to expand...
If it's a public school that info should be public record. Do some digging and find out for sure. If it's true some serious changes need to be made!
 
I would have to disagree that many of the worst schools have the best sports programs. You do have to stay eligible academically to play. In most cases sports are not expected to "fix" anyone's life. They are used to teach some life's lessons. Not everyone has the luxury of growing up on a farm anymore. The days of a $500 car and an afterschool job have passed. The work ethic eroded and the desire to do for one's self and community waned. some of these lesson's may have been taught by athletic participation.
 
Pops...You needed to google the other 30 articles. It has been covered in every national newspaper and the evening news for the last 5 years. Where have you been? Some states are over 30% What state do you live in...I'll teach you how to google your state data for you. read next..source OK?

"High School Graduation Rate at Highest Level in Three Decades

Posted on January 23, 2013 by Cameron Brenchley


A new report from the Department of Education shows that high school graduation rates are at their highest level since 1974. According to the report, during the 2009-10 school year, 78.2 percent of high school students nationwide graduated on time, which is a substantial increase from the 73.4 percent recorded in 2005-6. The report shows that graduation rates were up for all ethnic groups in 2010, and that the rate for Hispanic students has jumped almost 10 points since 2006.


My error, that is only 21.8% Pops...I know how to do researdh.
 
Sorry Pops, My source was NPR but this article from the Wall Street Joournal (ever heard of them?) might also help shed some light on it.


According to the NCAA, 43% of the 120 schools in the Football Bowl Subdivision lost money on their programs. This is the tier of schools that includes such examples as that great titan of football excellence, the University of Alabama at Birmingham Blazers, who went 3-and-9 last season. The athletic department in 2008-2009 took in over $13 million in university funds and student fees, largely because the football program cost so much, The Wall Street Journal reported. New Mexico State University's athletic department needed a 70% subsidy in 2009-2010, largely because Aggie football hasn't gotten to a bowl game in 51 years. Outside of Las Cruces, where New Mexico State is located, how many people even know that the school has a football program? None, except maybe for some savvy contestants on "Jeopardy." What purpose does it serve on a university campus? None
 
Texas

That conclusion was based on comparing the year’s number of graduates to the number of ninth graders four years earlier, an indicator often called "attrition." The intent is to get a snapshot of how many students graduate in four years.

Applying the same kind of approach, just a week before Perry’s speech, a federal report placed Texas’ 2009-10 graduation rate in the middle of the states. An Associated Press news story said the cited rate of 78.9 percent was just above the national average of 78.2 percent, in itself the highest since 1976.

Good news Pops..only 21.1 % in Texas
 
Directly from the U.S. Department of Education website...
"The status dropout rate declined from 12 percent in 1990 to 7 percent in 2011."

You originally said drop out rates. Now talking graduation rates in 4 years. Not the same!
 
Quoted from your earlier post
"I heard a shocking fact this week. Only 22 Universities in America generate enough revenue to cover the cost of their football program. "

The 22 schools figure only related to Division 1...not all universities in America.

I'm not disagreeing that drop out rates are too high or that some schools are over their heads with their athletic programs.
 
You might want to check out the Texas Education Agency website.

"Out of 314,079 students in the class of 2010, 84.3% graduated, 7.2% continued in high school the year following their anticipated graduation, and 1.3% received General Educational Development (GED) certificates."
 
(quoted from post at 16:00:29 10/27/13)
(quoted from post at 11:40:28 10/27/13)
(quoted from post at 12:54:46 10/26/13) Sports can and sometimes do have something to do with education, but not 50%.
Click to expand...

Care to explain what sports has to do with education beyond the very few that get scholarships? It's a GAME, games have nothing to do with education, nothing. Don't tell me about teaching team spirit or hard work or sportsmanship because none of that is going to help them pass tests or SATs. There isn't a football program in the nation that improves math scores, a basketball program that teaches American history or a wrestling program that teaches science. I played sports, it did nothing for me educationally.
Click to expand...

Sports DO help to teach the value of hard work, working with others, not giving up when things aren't going your way, etc. Look at job listings. Employers want team players. Hmm, where would a kid learn about teamwork?
With healthcare being such a hot topic these days, isn't learning about physical fitness important? What sports program doesn't put an emphases on physical fitness?
What can be learned participating in sports may not be as tangible as an SAT score, but many things that are learned participating in sports can be used in every day life.
There was a time when athletes got a free pass but things are different now. At least around here. Now they have to maintain a certain grade or they don't play. So sports are a way to motivate kids to study. A retired friend is a good example. He got a full ride scholarship. He had never been a serious student until he got to college. When he realized his future depended on his grades he became a good student. His degree got him job interviews. What he learned in sports got him a job that allowed him to move up through the industry and eventually run his own very successful business.

I didn't play sports, or take the SAT for that matter. I never had a prospective employer ask what my SAT score was but I did have one ask if I played sports. Your mileage may vary.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry sir, you're living in a dream world. Today school sports is about "getting some", drugs and partying. A small percentage of kids I'm sure will benefit but for most it's just something you do because others do it. What it teaches is that that teamwork helps boost the stars and everyone else sits the bench. You want them to learn team work? Try Parris Island or any other branch of the US Military. Hard work? You're kidding right? The sports stars get extra credit and help around here, not the no sports players.

I've worked a lot of places. I never once had anyone ask me if I played sports. They sure did ask me if I did drugs, was willing to take a urine test, had a criminal back ground, etc. Then there were the tests, loads and loads of tests. Not a bit of sports.

As far as external_linkcare, health costs will probably dictate we do away with sports to lower costs.

Sports are fine if you're a jock. For the rest of the kids it's just another status symbol they either do or don't have access to.
 
They may have been the case in your area but not around here. The school I went to was very strict about athletes not partying or doing drugs. A few got caught drinking beer and were bounced from the football team.
The school where my kids went was even more strict about the partying and keeping grades up.

What you describe happens more at the college level.
 
That has been a big part of the debate over the last several years, that state Education depts find ways to make themselves look better by manipulating the numbers (various ways).

Here in KY they quit tracking any student that changed schools,and those that declared themselves home schooled, etc, etc, etc etc.

In the end in my view there is only one way to count.

1000 kids start highschool....then... 6 or 7 years later...what percent graduated? Sadly the number is less than 80% and has been for over 50 years. Inner-cities are often less than 50% graduation rate...but great sports teams.

That means that over 20% nationwide do not have a highschool education....are "dropouts".
 
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