Always have mixed feeling when people are flooded?

JD Seller

Well-known Member
Whenever I see where some town or part of one floods I have mixed feeling on the issue. I am sorry that people suffer losses but also wonder why they lived there to start with. When flooding happens may not be known but where it can happen is not a big secret. Building/living in a flood plain, even if it is a 100-200 year one, is just plain foolish to me.

It is like when Cedar Rapids flooded in 2008. Well you build a city right on the banks of a river with out a flood wall or levy and they act all surprised when it floods. Even better you put your city courthouse in the middle of the river on an Island. LOL Then the federal government spends MILLIONS of tax payers dollars to "fix' the problem.

I say if you build/live in a flood plain and you get flooded then you should be able to "pay" for your own stupidity. I know that sounds hard hearted but it is a simple fact that it rains. Some times much more than what you are used to.

So a flood is not a disaster to me. It is just a normal thing that might only happen once every 100-200 years but it still happens.
 
I does sound a little mean, but I agree with you. Why do you build right next to water, and act all surprised when it floods?
 
Those areas got rain in one day what they normally get in nearly a whole year, even areas perhaps NOT in a high risk area couldnt withstand that much pressure. If a body lives in even a 100 year flood plain (but some of the Colorado floods may NOT have been in any flood plains whatsoever, I dont know????) Id advise them to buy Flood Insurance to cover themselves versus the taxpayers having to foot the bill. Compassion is fine and I have plenty if the Government had the money BUT when were in debt 16 Trillion, a lot to China, and have to BORROW money to hand out hmmmmmmmmmmmm whose to say and judge, maybe politicians who would get those persons vote ya reckon???? lol

God Bless n keep and protect the families

John T
 
We are still dealing with the flood after all these years . Buyouts not done , houses still sitting empty . Lot of people got richer after the flood . Favored developers were giving land /lots for free ,to rebuilt in flood zone. church and religious groups given land ,and now rebuilt and tax exempt . One group is now one of the largest property owners in CR . Sen Jack Hatch ,who has talked of running for govenor ,made out quite well . Liz Mathis who then was in charge of flood funds distribution rumored to funnel 4 million to a charity that her husband is director of . The land the new libray is on was appraised at 1.5 million , city paid 4.5 mill,and then fixed up old libray site for a swap deal .No investigations, no reporting . They want to extend option tax again,,,the first one was for flood walls,,well guess what ? No walls,but the city does own a rebuilt hotel and convention center by the river now . Sicken to see all the coruption on the local level .
 
Yep. Here they built a housing development at the junction of the Big Sioux River and the Missouri. It flooded 2 years ago when the Corps flooded the Missouri and 19 years earlier when there was a big rainstorm. I went and helped fill sandbags with many other volunteers several times, but you just got to wonder. I bet it floods again too.
 
You touched on an area (gov. debt) that this made me think of. We're all taking risks. Mediocre bare farm ground near here just sold for $10,800 an acre. Someone's taking a risk that there won't be a bust in farmland prices. Our government is drowning in red ink, those outside of agriculture invest in the stock market (banks pay no interest). With the need to again raise the debt ceiling again should we "run for the hills" (high ground)?
 
Yep gotta agree. Grand Forks and Fargo. Fargo did fix a bunch of their problems but still, ya live in a flood prone area yer going to get wet. Now a days it's the folks that just have to have that trendy home with the view of the river.


Rick
 

As for flood inurance, if it is an area with low risk of flooding, then there is probably not a FIRM map or rating. If the flood ins. folks dont have it rated, then you cant buy flood ins. and it takes an act of congress practically to get an unrated property rated.

Gene
 
Sorta the same when building on the East Coast. If you are near the ocean, there will be a storm. Why should the govt. buy your house just because you built it in a known danger area? Like the cliffs of Cal. Govt. didn't tell you to build there. Why should the rest of us be charged for the mistakes of the few?
Floods may be different except, one report showed the river was between the buildings and now has washed out the foundations. Duh?!?
 
Last year when I was driving sugar beet truck near East Grand forks one of the farms we were harvesting had a nice building site with an old house standing empty, on a high spot. I told the owner/boss if I was his son that's where I would want to build a new house, and asked if that area ever floods. He said no, the old timers knew where to build their houses!
 

Never been to the Colorado area that got flooded, but judging stricly from the pics it looks like they were in a mountainous region where there was no reasonable expectation of floods. Apperantly some home were built on the banks of streams which is not a good idea.

I've been to Cedar Rapids, toured the Czech museum, and agree 100% with JD sellar.

Town near me has development in a flood plain, which the old folks told the developers about. They built there anyway, they had a 100 year floor twice in a few years, got the government to build a flood control dam up stream on the small stream that flooded. Town is Laurens, SC.

KEH
 
Well, the town near us that got flooded and one person killed, should never have had the problem. DEC declaired the creek that caused all the damage a protected trout streem and forbid any kind of stream alterations and general maintainance, such a taking equipment into the streambed and removing old trees and brush that had caused the water to easily overflow it's banks. That shouldn't happen with this stream again. Emergency work began as soon as machinery could get into the stream, as the new creek bed was mainstreet of the town. DEC was told by our Gov to back off, and let the contractors do their job. They have been working in the stream for 2 months now, with big hoes and backdumps on a 10 mile section. The creekbed is now down well below the elevation of mainstreet again.
I did not hear of too many dead trout laying in the street after the water was diverted back to the streambed.
Loren, the Acg.
 
Agree 100%. Same with people who build where there are wildfires, earth quakes, along coast where are hurricanes. Wait, that's where about half the people live.
 
The reason people aren't told "tough $h!t" is because the politicians LOVE to get their faces on the TV and grandstand about how much they "care" and how much they're doing for us regular folks.

You could be the most popular politician in office today, but if you suddenly called for an end to these disaster relief handouts to stupid people, they'd run you out of town on a rail in the next election.
 
KEH,

Where were these floods in Laurens, and where is this dam? Only flood I remember is the flood down where the old Food Lion Used to be back in the 70s when it was Edwards.
 
This happens to Boulder area about once every 50 years. If you drive up towards Estes Park, there is a house anywhere you can get one set, along the creek/river.
They used to take paddle wheel boats up the Platte river, now I doubt you could hardly take an air boat up it. We, the people have done wonders to nature.
 
JD Seller, I surely didn't mean to turn this into bashing everybody who wants to build in a location that isn't 100% safe. Seems ALL of us have some natural disaster to deal with at some time. I'm sorry for those that lost their homes, personal momentos, pets, etc.
Have seen the same ignorance of potential problems here in WNC. Folks move here from another state with no knowledge of building requirements near mountain streams. Same result as Id. on samller scale. They blame the govt. or some upstream neighbor when the stream runs through their kitchen.
 
I know what you mean with Colorado. When I heard it on the news, I was kinda surprised. Not a place you would think would flood. I'm talking towns that were built in flood plains, places next to the ocean, etc. Just seems foolish to build a town there. Worst of all is that alot of them were built years ago when people should have had more common sense than that.
 
Kinda like California and their earthquakes.

I don't like to see anybody hurt or killed, but when it happens, I have to look at the victims and think they took a gamble and lost, I can't feel too sorry. You can't live there and NOT know the ground is very unstable.

Not to mention we've been hearing for as long as I've been alive that there IS going to be a massive, super earthquake, dumping half the coast into the ocean, and we're running out of time.

When it DOES happen, it's going to be awfully hard to feel sorry for everybody that thought the nice weather made it worth the risk.

And in my mind, they should all be putting a little money away for themselves in case they come out of it alive but without their possessions - I'm not giving them some of MINE to help them out! (...as if I had a choice)
 
I would say three quarters of the time it is poor planning or ignorance. There are the times when you just get caught. I get more irritated when the Feds bail out people who live on the coast line such as in Galveston, TX or the outer banks in NC when the hurricanes level their homes every few years. More often than not it is rich people living in those areas.
 
Actually part of the coast falling into the ocean is not true. The California faults are strike-slip movement between the Pacific and North American plate. This means they are moving along the fault line, not into the ocean.
 
I know what you are saying.

Especially bad up here in the upper midwest where the glaciers created the big wide valleys as they melted, leaving a small river in the bottom. Early settlers needed to live near the water, but then as modern cities and towns built around it got too crowded, too low, and too many snuck by with bad planning.

Makes a real mess to try to move the infrastructure to higher ground now, whe. It would have been so easy in the beginning.

But back then they needed the river for transport, and to bring water in and to dispose of the waste stream out, so they built right up against the river every time. It made sense then, now its all wrong.

Those canyons out west, too little rain and they dry up and burn, too much rain and they flood, you build at the bottom and flood, build at the top and you wash off the top. Think the population is getting ahead of the ability to make good decisions in those areas.....

Paul
 
from NOAA website: In the United States, counties directly on the shoreline constitute less than 10 percent of the total land area (not including Alaska), but account for 39 percent of the total population. From 1970 to 2010, the population of these counties increased by almost 40% and are projected to increase by an additional 10 million people or 8% by 2020. Coastal areas are substantially more crowded than the U.S. as a whole, and population density in coastal areas will continue to increase in the future. In fact, the population density of coastal shoreline counties is over six times greater than the corresponding inland counties.
 
My SIL was an adjuster for a well known insurance company. Now I am not in love with insurance companies by any means but the shear numbers involved with hurricane loss is staggering. Other than the view why does someone have to live within 10 miles of the ocean? Also I boat and fish, shoreline development is the worst polluter of inland waters by far. In Louisville and across the Ohio river in Indiana they have built flood gates that can be opened and closed. So far this system works well. Any major river requires a flood plain for adequate drainage.
 
The Chehalis Valley, where I live, is flood-prone. The three worst floods have been in 1991, 1996 and 2007, with the most recent being the worst, by about 4 feet.

FEMA said this will be it, for those in the floodplain- they offered funds to have your house raised, and those who didn't will be out of luck for the next one. Supposedly. But just wait, when another happens, FEMA will be right back in there, handing out money.
 
I agree and disagree with you...

What about all the people that live in tornado alley? Houses destroyed.
What about all the people that live in areas of heavy snow fall? Roof collapse.
Near the coasts? Hurricanes.
In the forests? Wildfires.
Should no one live in these areas either?

I could go on and on. All of these situations can and have destroyed houses and killed people. There is really no 100% safe place to live anywhere. Each region has its own risk. It is a matter of how much risk you are willing to accept.

What I can't understand was New Orleans being surprised by Hurricane Katrina. You are below sea level in a lot of parishes, and some areas continue to slowly sink. Sooner or later something bad could happen, and it did.

Rick
 
I agree. I grew up in a town that got washed away about every 15 years. The people finally got smart and moved to higher ground. The old Main St, downtown is now mostly a park.

I have found that many of the people that are against govt. programs, will be lined up for the money if it hits home.
 
Look up Soldiers Grove Wisconsin Solar Village on how the Feds should be doing things. Town was flooded many times and they finally moved the whole town to a higher level. The move involved all new buildings being solar powered.
 
JD, I share your sentiment, rebuilding should NOT be allowed in 100 year plain.

It is frustrating to see Cedar Rapids so excited to put buildings back into the place where they were flooded. They do not seem to understand that rivers need room to spread out.
 
There are many different ways to look at this, as there are conditions where history has taught us a lesson.

You can look at it from an engineering stanpoint, feasibility for mitigation, risk assessment, risk reduction and so on.

There are obviously areas where the potential always exists, the frequency of events are more, and those that are almost anomalies, say 500 yr events.

I would agree that if you build a place like New Orleans, there is significant risk. Is there a way to engineer a way to reduce or mitigate it, is it feasible, and all the other questions one should ask, before something substantial is built. In this case, it exists, it happened, and though some can be highly critical, can it be mitigated reasonably, at high expense, beyond being feasible, and after all of that how much better will it be to solve the problem, which mind you is naturally occurring and on a scale some people cannot even comprehend. If then, for example a place is still built with high expense and you can't say with confidence that what has been done, won't be compromised unless its beyond a 500 year event or similar, someone has to make the decision to do it, continue, rebuild or abandon. Its hard to say what the right decision will be, to rebuild and have continued catastrophic events, certainly makes no sense with the high cost of lives lost, high cost of resources applied just to get people out of danger, not to mention the overall cost of the damage done. I do not like seeing any taxpayer money wasted on anything, and maybe there are some that are just blatant, others that are extremely complicated to rationally decide what the best course of action is, at some point though, a decision must be rendered based on fact, data, history, conditions and changes that occur over time.

If you know that a different kind of construction will mitigate the risk, or the locations chosen will do the same, then its not so hard to know what the right thing is to do. This is not always the case.

We saw in this area, unthinkable damage from 10" of rain in a short period of time, 8-12 hours or so, and most of it was from raging water spilling over long established waterways, that was likely a 500 year event. The damage was incredible, but some changes can be made, some homes are built on the edge of embankments that over time or in certain conditions will be compromised, it does not make sense to build in those areas. If you are in a flood plain near one of these creeks, rivers or even coastal floodplains, can you raise your home high enough, can you mitigate what a 500 year event will cause, or is it foolish to think that you can overcome what natural occurrences will do ?

Sometimes I think where places are built may truly be foolish, others may be a mistake only when a 500 year event happens, in either case, I can't condemn (in my opinion) people for doing these things unless its just utterly and blatantly obvious foolishness.

Think about those sink holes, I mean we can look into the earth a bit with technology, but who would ever see something like that coming ? Then to condemn someone for missing something like that.... well you get what I am trying to say. Its a provocative question, a good one at that, we just hope people can make the right decisions and not make the same foolish mistakes repeatedly.

In my opinion, I'll never live below a dam, and with all the engineering, the redundancy in safety margins and all of that, I know that the potential is always going to be there and I may not have the benefit of warning. Additionally, with all the miserable terrorist types out there now, and those who for some reason just want to harm others, how do I know someone will not make the conscious decision to compromise or damage one of these structures to cause harm to people? Like I said, the potential is always going to be there, so I chose to eliminate that potential, by using my best defense, not to be there.

I've lived on the ocean, I have seen what it can do, I have been evacuated numerous times, I loved the place where I lived and the enjoyment of the area, but it comes at a high risk, expense and the potential is always there, in that case, you either built as safe as you can, buy into the other associated risks, know that you could get wiped out or endure significant hardship, or you decide to move to safer ground. A society of people living or planning to live in these areas must know these things, you live on the ocean, with all the erosion, all the weather events, so you can enjoy the majority of the better times these things do not happen, there is likely a high cost to be paid for it, the problem is, that cost is borne by those who may disagree, so each has a side to take, but there is a point where common sense and feasibility need to set a precedent as to where the line is between both sides. There is a lot to weigh the scale on the side of the frequency of these events and the benefits of enjoying living in these places, but by the same token, one cannot ever remove the potential of catastrophe, which then appears to be utter foolishness to have built in a coastal area. Is that just the cost of using these places to reside, place industry, and so on, or is it just safer to realize that nothing should be built in these areas. If the latter is the case, then where is it better to move to, at what cost and what are the impacts of all of that. There are so many conditions, variables and so on, its never going to be easy to make the best decision, each and every time. At this point, how do you move large populations, cities, industry, at what cost, what rationale is it based on. The whole thing gives me a headache thinking about it LOL !!!!

Fukashima reactors near the ocean in Japan, to me seems foolish given what happened, but I do not know any of the facts, just what we all saw after an unbelievable event. SO many examples, given history, like I said, its a very provocative question for people to ask themselves.
 
Politicians are buying votes with my money. If one person gets flooded out too bad, when 1000 people get flooded, disaster relief.
 
My inlaws used to live in a small town and when they built their house the area did not have any problems before. Then the town put in a bridge down from them and used too small of culverts. Well in a decent rain they now would plug up with debris causing flooding. Father in law was after the small town mayor all the time telling them to fix that bridge. ( it was all he could do to keep from decking him ) I think the city also messed with the sewer drains too causing more problems.

Well then they finally moved away and wouldn't you know it they went in and fixed that bridge like father in law told them to and no one after that had a problem.

So sometimes things are fine and then someone who thinks they know it all reengineers everything and goofs it all up.
 
Sorta like those folks along the gulf coast being surprised when a hurricane hits. Or folks out in California that have to rebuild after every earthquake. Then there's them folks on the Great Plains that suffer tornado losses. And up in New England they are forever dodging Nor'Easters and blizzards. Them folks up in the mountains have grizzly attacks to deal with.

Folks have to live somewhere. Most places have some sort of danger involved. But if we prepare properly, we can weather the storm and survive.
 
But it was GOVERNMENT, as in the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and NOT private dollars, that built the floodwalls and gate system. So once again, it's the U.S. Government to the rescue, and NOT private industry or individuals.

I ain't sayin' that's wrong, and I ain't sayin' that's right. BUT for those who fume and fuss about all the government spending, when individuals or businesses don't have the vast resources it takes to do these projects on their own...either the government does it [at EVERYONE'S expense] or it just doesn't get done.
 
The one that really gets me are the ones who are told to evacuate and they don't. Then they expect others to risk their lives to save them. Sometimes you have to let nature run her course to improve the gene pool.
 
You should amend that to New Englanders that live along the coast line.We are 65 miles from the coast in NE CT. and don't have to many issues other than losing power.

Vito
 
Parts of Belfast City floods every time there is heavy rain, but then if the dimwits that make the pizzas in Belfast would put them in a round box instead of in a square box, the same size as the town gulleys, then the pizza box would not float over the top of the gulley and block it! We really do need to educate our city dwellers to take their pizza box to the garbage bin!
This whole topic boils down to one thing.....We are not as strong as Mother Nature!, Heck.... some of even choose to live in areas with too much sunshine!!
Sam
 
I'm not against helping people the first time they get flooded. But if your house gets flooded and you don't raise it or build elsewhere the 2nd time you get flooded you're on your own.

As for not building in the 100 year flood plane, or even in the 200 year flood plane. That's just not realistic. People have to live somewhere. I have no idea what the 200 year flood plane looks like. I suspect a large portion of the midwest population lives in the 200 year flood plane. Where would you suggest those folks move to? Your farms perhaps?

Many areas in the 100 year flood plane no longer flood because of all the drainage improvements that have taken place in the past 30-40 years. And when someone does build in the 100 year flood plane they are required to buy flood insurance.

People often don't have much of an option on where to live. They live near where their jobs or family are. The vacation homes, etc you guys are talking about are a drop in the bucket.

As for the current flood. My cousin's family had to evacuate their home. She said their garage had a few inches of water, but didn't expect water in the house. Officials said that area hadn't flooded in 1000 years. That's 1000 years! Are we now to say that people shouldn't build in the 1000 year flood plane?
Where do you draw the line?

If people shouldn't live on the coast line, near fault lines, in tornado alley, in areas prone to wild fires, near streams or rivers, or in the 100 year flood plane, just where should they live?
Not trying to be argumentative, just being realistic. People have to live somewhere.
 
There wasn't any FEMA homeowner help here. They refused to help homeowners, but did subsidize local infrastructure, roads and bridge repairs.
Loren, the Acg.
 

just a parting note. In the last 50 years there are far more open acers in cultivation, far more more acers of urban sprawl and runoff. Billy NY's 500yr. or even 20yr plans no longer apply. The dust bowl catastrophe could have been prevented if we knew how to manage our land like we do now. If federal and state forests were "substainably harvested", we wouldn't have major fire events followed by flood events, and our natural resources would have become part of our renewable energy economy, rather than the cause of this nation's financial demise.
Loren, the Acg.
 
Dan: there is NO comparison between a tornado and a flood.

The flood plains are not a mystery. You can tell where water is going to go if you have a big rain.

You have ZERO idea where a tornado is going to hit. There are not as many federal dollars spent on tornado damage as flood damage. Most insurance policies pay on a tornado.

As far as hurricane damage. You can build to make the damage be minimal from them. Have a very good friend that has a house down on the Gulf of Mexico. The house is 100 years old. It is built on higher ground. HE was hit just about square with Katrina. Had zero water damage and just a little roof damage.

As far as the wild fires out west. The tree huggers have actually made them much worst because they will not let old dead trees be cut/cleared down. Also the homes built in CA just are not designed correctly. I remember seeing a whole subdivision burnt to the ground other than ONE house. That guy was from Korea. He built his home to be fire resistant. He had zero damage while the homes around him where destroyed.

So if you build for the conditions you may have then most places can be lived in/on without major damage. Even flood areas. Just put the homes above the water line.
 
(quoted from post at 22:25:01 09/17/13) 100% agreement.

Why do people appear baffled when they are soaked while located in a flood plain.

The next subdivision over from where I grew up was in the 100 year flood plane. I'm 54 and there has not been a drop of flood water in any house or garage in that development in my lifetime.
With all the ditches, drainage tile, detention ponds, retention ponds.....many areas that are in the 100 year flood plane will likely never flood, short of a catastrophic 500 or 1000 year event.
 
(quoted from post at 22:57:51 09/17/13) Dan: there is NO comparison between a tornado and a flood.

The flood plains are not a mystery. You can tell where water is going to go if you have a big rain.

You have ZERO idea where a tornado is going to hit. There are not as many federal dollars spent on tornado damage as flood damage. Most insurance policies pay on a tornado.

As far as hurricane damage. You can build to make the damage be minimal from them. Have a very good friend that has a house down on the Gulf of Mexico. The house is 100 years old. It is built on higher ground. HE was hit just about square with Katrina. Had zero water damage and just a little roof damage.

As far as the wild fires out west. The tree huggers have actually made them much worst because they will not let old dead trees be cut/cleared down. Also the homes built in CA just are not designed correctly. I remember seeing a whole subdivision burnt to the ground other than ONE house. That guy was from Korea. He built his home to be fire resistant. He had zero damage while the homes around him where destroyed.

So if you build for the conditions you may have then most places can be lived in/on without major damage. Even flood areas. Just put the homes above the water line.

I remember that house. The firemen figured they could only save one house. They looked around and saw the Korean guy's house built out of fire resistant materials. They chose to save that house and not try to save the neighboring houses. Interestingly the Korean home owner had no insurance!

I have a sister in CA. CA is very strict with their building codes. Both in regards to earthquakes and wild fires. My sis' home owners insurance also requires that brush within a certain distance of the house be cut at certain intervals 4 times a year.

There ARE very specific building codes for building in a flood plane.
People have the wrong idea about houses that are in the flood plane. For the most part they are not in wet or swampy areas. A lot of times you'd never expect an area to be in a flood plane. Many areas are only in a 100 year flood plane because they flooded before any drainage improvements were made.
 

That's the one, John. The dam is up stream somewhere on the Little River, I've never been to it.

KEH
 
Pops your pretty much on the mark here--population is expanding and people have to live somewhere.
water front property is out so much in demand and people are willing to take risks to live there.
with the government always giving out so much money for all these events everyone wants to get on board for there take! the Feds even subsidize flood insurance so people can build in the flood plane
Having lived on the east coast my whole life i have seen this scene repeated over and over many times.
The Feds should stop giving these handouts and then maybe people will start building responsibly by out of the flood plane or at least elevated above the 100 year flood elevation---which by the way is recently being revised due to the rising sea level.
 
If I remember correctly. The house was built of concrete. Everyone jumped on him for building it. Didn't fit with the others in the neighbor hood.Guess they should have listen to him.

There are some homes built along White Rock creek in Dallas Texas. Just down from the spill way. First time the water got to the back doors they were screaming for the city to do some thing. Claimed they didn't know they were in a flood plain.
 
The reason the fires are so bad is the fact that the feds the last 100 year have had a policy to put out wildlife all fires and the brush is out of contral where as fires that occured naturaly were also put out and this messed with the balance hence more brush dead brush etc. Some plant and trees in these areas acuatly need the fire to make there seeds germinate.
 
Without a huge number of drainage ditches and storm sewers, most of Michigan would be under water at some point.
 
I live on top of a Mountian I think we're 1450 ft elevation, we dident get a drop of water in the basement 2 years ago during Irene's 9 inch rainfall. It's just common sense, you build in a low area you may get flooded, happened to alot of towns around me. The worse part was there were worries that the Gilboa dam would break and wipe out the valley! The dam provides water to the toilet bowl of NY, NYC.
 
But, if the forests were properly managed, and the trees/acre was kept in check, those fires that are needed for some of those seeds to germinate, would not burn out of control as they do now. The fires would be smaller, less intense, and would not kill every tree it came across, as it does now.

But why use science when we can just let everything go wild?
 
Actually (2 things here), the Corps of Engineers had plans in the 70s to built sea gates to keep the storm surge out of Lake Ponchatrain, and then as a back-up, a large spillway was to be built that would dump out into the swamps instead of having to wait on the river levels to drop enough to drain the lake. But the tree huggers sued to stop it because they didn't want the frogs to drown.

Never mind that the frogs live in the swamps, and flooding is a normal occurrence in a swamp.

2- there are 2 types of reactors. There is the common type in use today. Then there is another type that was developed at the same time, but they've found a different (and less dangerous) fuel for it that Uranium or Plutonium, and it's fail-safe. If anything goes wrong, it actually shuts down, instead of melting down.
 
I would beg to differ about not have zero idea where a tornado would hit.

Where do you think the name "Tornado Alley" comes from. That was the point of my earlier post. There are data available that shows where the highest propensity for tornados are. So to mitigate that risk you should not live there.

BUT, this is where I do agree with you, name a place that is 100% safe to live at. All areas have risk of danger in some form or another. Most people migrate to the risk they have become comfortable in their own minds. Whether or not that is the safest or not.
Fire, tornados, floods, lightning, poisonous snakes, grizzly bears, etc. All risk factors.

Rick
 
I generally agree with your post and others about building in a flood plain...or flood prone area?.....why be surprised? But I think Colorado is different- drove thru there a year ago, including Boulder, wonderful first visit to the State. But it"s all mountains in that area! Valleys....that can"t handle 15 inches of rain in a short time, yet people need to live there.

We farm in flat to gently rolling land- had a 15 inch rain on June 19, 1983. Nearest river is 7 miles away. Wiped out roads, bridges, ripped topsoil and sent basketball size rocks into the ditches!....but nothing like Colo is facing now. In the 70s, friend had same rainfall 70 miles North in MN, 20 year old house foundation caved in. Rocks don"t absorb moisture like farmland....where can the water go? Boulder is not like NO- built freaking BELOW sea level! That was dumb!
 
Re the comments about forest (mis)management- same thing in MN some years ago after tornadoes wiped out so much in forested N. MN, and pristine Boundary Waters Canoe Area. Would not allow loggers in to harvest down trees. Few years later, big fire, but DNR (Dam Near Russia)won"t allow the early small fire to be put out. Took weeks to quell the inferno they allowed.
 
Yes, I agree that in general you shouldn't build in an area that's at risk for flooding. But if you've ever taken a drive through some of those Colorado canyons, such as the Big Thompson, I think you would understand why people want have a home there. Also, there are a lot of places where building outside a flood plain isn't even an option. That's true of most of the state of Louisiana, for example. The only thing to be done is to build flood tolerant structures elevated on pilings.

Another thing to consider is the impact of dam failure. In the case of the 1976 Big Thompson flood, a dam failure sent a thirty foot tall wall of water down the narrow canyon, killing 143 people. A dam failure was also responsible for the Johnstown, PA flood of 1889 which killed over 2000 people. In 1928, failure of the St. Francis Dam above Los Angeles killed 600 people. It sounds like there were a few minor dam failures in Colorado, but they weren't directly responsible for most of the flooding. Regardless, people have a reasonable expectation that the dams above them are safe and won't fail.

Cities are built where they are for (usually) good reasons. It's hardly surprising that the cities in Colorado are built on the rivers along the front range. Water was a necessity, and early development was driven by mining activity in the Rockies. New Orleans was built at the mouth of the Mississippi for the simple reason that you can't NOT have a port at the mouth of the nation's largest river. Johnstown is another city that was built where it was for very good reasons.

Now there are plenty of places in flood plains where building makes no sense at all. But the general trend is to discourage new construction and rebuilding in those areas. It's much tougher and more expensive to get flood insurance in flood-prone areas than it was thirty years ago.
 
well i can offer this from personal experience while we do live on a river we were usually safe from flooding because we are on the uphill side of the channell the water always went the other way and we had no trouble here, 3 years ago enter 2 very stupid 16 years olds, unsupervised, and both decided to have a bottle rocket fight, even though fireworks of any kind are not allowed in this county in the last 50 years and dry conditions and forest land and the fact that at the time our last moisture had been 8 months previous they decided to do this , the resulting wildfire burned well over 100,000 acres mostly mountainous areas now we flood due to the tremendous run off from this fire area anythime we have a good rain event in the burn area as is local custom , due to who it was that whelped these 2 morons very little was done to them for causing the fire
 
Yep, remember it well! In fact I think I have a copy of the Advertiser with a pic of that on the front page, I was like 8 or 9, but I remember going to school that morning and seeing all of that water, and the police redirecting us to go another way. I can remember Edwards and Belks "Flood Sale". And that little pizza place down the "hall" closed up for good.
 
Heres what the Platte River looked like at Columbus,NE in Sept 2012...I'm standing in the main channel..
14v4j9k.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 22:42:27 09/17/13) If people shouldn't live on the coast line, near fault lines, in tornado alley, in areas prone to wild fires, near streams or rivers, or in the 100 year flood plane, just where should they live?
Not trying to be argumentative, just being realistic. People have to live somewhere.

My take is they can live anywhere they want to, but they need to pay for the consequences themselves and not have Uncle Sugar (i.e. ME!) bailing them out of it. There are construction things that can be done to mitigate earthquake and wind risk, maybe even to minimize damage due to flood. They should do it or not cry when they get wiped out.
 
(quoted from post at 00:05:21 09/18/13) Re the comments about forest (mis)management- same thing in MN some years ago after tornadoes wiped out so much in forested N. MN, and pristine Boundary Waters Canoe Area. Would not allow loggers in to harvest down trees. Few years later, big fire, but DNR (Dam Near Russia)won"t allow the early small fire to be put out. Took weeks to quell the inferno they allowed.

Maybe you didnt know it but the idea behind the BWCA is to have a natural area, with as little interference from man as possable. Limited put-in locations, limits on permits, strict rules loosly centered around Leave No Trace. It all adds up to a rustic wilderness thats about as close as we can get to the way things were a couple hundred years ago (or more). If you want a pristeen campsite and wonderful views, you can have that, there is no shortage of KOA's around. You can even reserve online. If you want a rustic camping experience, the BWCA offers it. You just have to remember in nature, fires happen. Tornados happen. Ice storms happen. Because that happens in nature, part of the nature experience is sometimes having to look at the results of those things. I dont think thats all that bad. I can live without the sanitized KOA experience but if I change my mind, there is no shortage of that kind of campground.
 
The BWCA sounds a lot like NYs Adirondack Park. Sustainable logging would be the very best thing for 90% of that area. Instead, the vast majority of the Parks state lands will never be logged, never be used, never even set foot on by man again. Some people think that's a great idea. I call it waste.

To each their own I guess.
 
As far as the flood zones, tornado alley, etc, I look at it this way-

No one has ever helped anyone up here when we get socked with massive snow fall, microbursts, landslides or anything else. I went 15 days without power in January in sub-zero temps and got no help whatsoever. And truthfully, I didn't really deserve any handouts from other taxpayers. So when I see New Orleans flood or Atlantic City get inundated or California burn up or shake apart or some little town in Kansas get blown off the map, I figure they knew what they were getting into and it's up to them to decide what they want to do next, re-build or leave. Thinking gov't is going to "fix" the problem is the first step in seeing things slide downhill. If you live some place where there are floods, fires, tornados, etc, then it's your responsibility to carry insurance to cover those possibilities, end of story.
 
My take is they can live anywhere they want to, but they need to pay for the consequences themselves and not have Uncle Sugar (i.e. ME!) bailing them out of it. There are construction things that can be done to mitigate earthquake and wind risk, maybe even to minimize damage due to flood. They should do it or not cry when they get wiped out.

Those construction requirements have been in place for several years as part of the national building code.
As far as the bail outs. I agree. The government backed low interest loans are one thing, but hand outs are another. I'm not in favor of hand outs or repeatedly bailing out the same people in the same area. Take the bail out or loans and build somewhere else or rebuild in the same spot in a way that you won't have the same problem again.
 

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