158 loader problems

Larry Metzgar · Aug 10, 2013

I installed a pass threw valve or ICV valve on my 4230 so I could use a joy stick control ( Cross) in the cab seperate from the other set of outlets. The loader goes up and down but the front cyclinders on the front will not work. I cracked the fittings and oil comes out. Is it the valve where the joystick controls? I tried hooking the hoses to one of the hydraulic outlets and putting pressure to them and still no cyclinder action. We followed the instructions on the pass threw and appears to be rightwith no leaks.Also plenty of fluid on dipstick. Need help.

jm. · Aug 10, 2013

Was the cross valve already running the loader being fed by one of the remotes? Is the cross valve Open center or closed? I smell some incompatibility here somewhere.

JD Seller · Aug 10, 2013

I do not know what a "pass through" valve is. Unless your are calling a power beyond block a pass through valve. Is this "pass through valve" bolted between the SCV and the rock shaft housing??? If it is then it just a supply and return port. Nothing to go wrong in it other than to leak.

If the loader is working on the up and down cylinders then the supply is working. You could just have a bucket cylinder that is bad internally. It is leaking all of the oil from the pressure side to the return side.

Check out the plumbing to the bucket cylinders. You could have the lines crossed. Where you are applying pressure to both side of the same cylinder. This would make it hydraulically locked. One set of hoses is teed and hooked to one end of each cylinder, not both ends of one cylinder. Then there is another set hooked to the remaining ports on both cylinders.

Larry Metzgar · Aug 11, 2013

Yes it's also called a power beyond. The top port is the pressure side on the unit and yes it fit in between the two. No leaks. Maybe the lines are crossed up somewhere. It goes up and down really nice, but no bucket cyclinder action. When I purchased the unit it was all plumbeed in with the joy stick control and just the two lines that go to the hydraulics. Maybe they had a different configuration. Thanks for the help..

Larry Metzgar · Aug 11, 2013

Not sure. When I bought the loader it came with the Cross valve attached and all the lines were connected. All that came out of the valve were two lines that went to the hydraulics on the back of the tractor. The 158 loader manual suggested installing a power beyond or pass through. I did and no leaks. Top side makes the hose really stiff and obviously must be the pressure side. The side is the return. Anyway when we fired it up the loader goes up and down nice, no leaks. Just the cyclinders for the dump doesnt do anything. Maybe the previous owner didnt have it working .

Tx Jim · Aug 11, 2013

Since you stated the bucket cylinders don't operate correctly when plugged directly into the scv then I think the pistons seals on both bucket cylinders are leaking. Simple test would be to attach one line that either pushes/retracts bucket cylinders to a control valve leaving other line open. Activate valve to pressurize hose and if oil flows out open hose with rod not moving then one or both cylinders are leaking internally.

Larry Metzgar · Aug 11, 2013

Here's where were at on the loader. The pressure side goes to the in on the valve. The lines are hooked correctly according to the picture you enclosed. I went right down and followed line 3, 4, 5 and 6. They are correct. Must be in the " cross valve" not makeing the cyclinders for the up and down on the bucket work. There are different letters on this and a place that say's in and out. Out I assume is the return and goes back to the power beyond port on the side of the block. Not sure if these can be rebuilt or if I am any closer to solving the problem.

jm. · Aug 11, 2013

You just hit it THE OUT does NOT got to the PB the out is to tank or dump. You have to have a power beyond sleve and create a power beyond line from the valve. You will have three line , in, PB and out.

Tx Jim · Aug 11, 2013

(quoted from post at 08:43:23 08/11/13) You just hit it THE OUT does NOT got to the PB the out is to tank or dump. You have to have a power beyond sleve and create a power beyond line from the valve. You will have three line , in, PB and out.

jm
NEGATIVE. Closed center hyd valves only require 2 hoses. A pressure & a return hose. The parts photo is from JD 148 loader parts catalog.

Tx Jim · Aug 11, 2013

(quoted from post at 21:05:38 08/10/13) Is it the valve where the joystick controls? I tried hooking the hoses to one of the hydraulic outlets and putting pressure to them and still no cyclinder action..

Is joystick control valve a closed-center valve???

When you tried attaching JS valve to the SCV did you move SCV control lever in the correct direction??

Which ports on PB block do you have valve attached? Parts key #6 should be in the pressure port which needs to be attached to "in port" on the loader valve

Larry Metzgar · Aug 11, 2013

Looking at your picture it is the same as I installed. The top port (number 6) goes to the in on the joy stick valve. Number 9 is where I installed the other coupling where the out goes into from the joy stick valve. The other port below it is capped off with the enclosed plug. Am I to assume the return or out from the loader does not return to the power beyond? If not then where does the return hose go? As far as disconecting anything I removed what the instructions said to and replaced, which was the swivel that ran the existing hydraulics which are now behind the new power beyond.

Tx Jim · Aug 11, 2013

(quoted from post at 11:13:32 08/11/13) Am I to assume the return or out from the loader does not return to the power beyond? If not then where does the return hose go?

Larry
As i previously stated closed-center hyd remote valves such as your loader valve require only 2 hoses attached as depicted in this parts photo. Although the photo depicts the hoses attached to the tractors breakaway coupler of the scv the way you have your attached to PB block is correct.

JD Seller · Aug 11, 2013

The Cross valve can be setup to be either closed center or open center. It just is a different plug on the right side of the valve. Right beside the return oil port on the right side of the valve there is a large plug that will just screw out. It has an oring to seal it. IF it is a closed center valve then the plug will be longer with a second oring about 1 1/2 inches in from the end. The picture is of a closed center plug. If the valve is setup for open center operation then the plug will end just below the threads. IF you look in the housing you can see where this allows the oil to go right out the return port. With the CC plug in the oil has to go through one of the valve spools when it is used.

Still think you a have a bucket cylinder issue. The lift would not work right if you the valve plumbed wrong. Even a open center valve would work but just make the hydraulics heat up and work slow.

jm. · Aug 11, 2013

You and I usually do not differ but the theory that he has nothing plumed wrong because the loader lifts does not hold true here. The bucket cylinders and control are regenative for faster operation. The oil takes a different path or works different as from the lift cylinders. Now you may be right in him having the wrong plug in the control valve. That is why I kept asking what control valve he had. More than likely open center. Really doubt that BOTH bucket cylinder have quit at the same time but really only ONE bad cylinder could cause the bucket to not work. We always cycle it a few times take a infred heat gun and check the heat. If it is leaking internaly it will show up I am think you are to it with the wrong plug installed.

Tx Jim · Aug 11, 2013

I agree with JD Seller that you probably have some faulty piston packings on the bucket cylinders. To check to see if the ind valve is correct then remove return hose,cap the fitting on power beyond block,aim hose in tractor sump filler tube,crank engine and with control lever on valve in neutral "no oil" should flow out of hose.

okierob · Aug 11, 2013

is the joystick actually working the valve for the tilt.

Larry Metzgar · Aug 11, 2013

Please bear with me on all these questions. I pulld the large plug out next to the return port. From the inside of the shoulder to the end measures 1 1/4". I did not see a O ring on the bottom, but there was one near the shoulder of the plug. I do not know what it means by centering. I guess I am confused by the help. Heres what I know. The beyond valve I installed had three ports. 1 on the top and two on the right side. The top has a 90 and a fitting and the top oneon the right hand side has the same. The one underneath is capped. The top port goes to the in on the cross valve. The one on the right side hose goes to the out on the cross valve. Action goes up and down, but front cyclinders dont work. If you crack either front cyclinders oil comes shooting out. Everything else is plumed according to the picture. I would think if the cross valve was right at leat the front cyclinders would move a little.

Larry Metzgar · Aug 11, 2013

It is suppose to.

Tx Jim · Aug 12, 2013

Larry
If you would perform the simple test I outlined earlier you would know if the closed center plug is installed correctly and functioning as it should be. Just place return hose in the tractor hyd filler hole or a bucket and with both spools on loader valve in neutral with engine running no oil should flow out the hose. If oil flows out the hose you have a loader control valve problem. You could also get 2 hoses and attach bucket cyl hoses to the tractor rear remotes to see if bucket cylinders will extend & retract,

Larry Metzgar · Aug 12, 2013

I went out back removed the hose and stuck it in a drain bucket. Started up the tractor and all that came out of the hose was a little oil that was probably in the hose. I even had it anchored down so if oil did come out under pressure it wouldnt go all over. I talked to Cross today and were tring to narrow down the valve. Either a DV or a BA.

Tx Jim · Aug 12, 2013

Larry
Ok now you know valve is a closed center valve. Now for a process of elimination can you attach 2 hoses to the hoses that lead to bucket cylinders and try to operate them from tractor rear remote(scv)??

Larry Metzgar · Aug 13, 2013

I ran a seperate hose to the front cyclinders and they operate up and down. I guess now we know its either in the cross valve or the Morse joystick controls.

Tx Jim · Aug 13, 2013

Glad to hear you're making progress. Is the JS valve cable operated? It's unusual for a spool valve to totally not function correctly.

Larry Metzgar · Aug 13, 2013

Yes the joy stick has two cables that run down to the spool. I think the spool is probably ok if the loader goes up and down. I am not sure how the end that goes into the spool is attached. It appears to have a bolt or two in it and maybe will come out.

Tx Jim · Aug 13, 2013

I'll bet the trouble is the cable not the spool valve. I've seen the clamp get loose that's intended to hold cable and when handle is actuated the cable just slides in the clamp not moving the spool.

JD Seller · Aug 13, 2013

Larry Sorry for the delay getting back to you on your problem. I see TxJim has been helping you. That is good.

I see where you have found that the cylinders actually are working. That is good. You are narrowing down the possible issues.

Here is a simple thing I had give me grief on a loader years ago. Are you using couplers to attach the hoses to the loader valve??? I mean a male and female ISO/Pioneer coupler an hose end. If you are replace the male ends with ones you know are good. I had a male end mess up and it acted like a check valve. That function would not work. It could also be the female coupler but I have had several MALE couplers fail and only one female one.

TxJim's idea on checking to see if the Joystick control is actually working the spool is a good one too. The JD factory setup has the cables and then a plastic coupler right at the spool. I have had these couplers strip out and not work the spool valve.

158 loader problems

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Similar threads