What makes a BTO... For John_PA

hey John,

You asked my definition of BTO -

1. Do you crop more than 1000 acres?

2. Are these acres mostly corn, beans, wheat, or cotton?

3. Do you consider any other crop a waste of space?

4. Do you put entire hillsides into beans or corn, but say it's OK because they were no-tilled or you have 10 foot weed strips you call "buffers" every 90 feet?

5. Do you forget entire farms because "There's just so many of them"?

6. Do you treat anyone smaller than you like dirt and look at their land as a chance to put more seeds in the ground?

7. Do you start mudding your corn in on April 10th, plant every day no matter the weather, and stop planting on June 20th?

8. Do you have several LLCs so you can maximize your Gov't payments?

9. Would you be able to farm the way you farm with NO gov't handouts?

10. Is more than half your equipment less than 10 years old and all one color?

11. Is your pickup, big, shiny, new, and gonna be traded for a bigger,shinier, and newer one soon?

12. Do you consider bankruptcy "just another tool in the toolbox"?

13. Do you regularly pay bills 3 months late "because you can"?

14. Do you skip paying rent to little old widow ladies because you know you can get away with it?

If you answered "Yes" to more than 4 of these questions, then YES, you are a BTO. If you answered "yes" to question 14, then you're a BTO AND the jerk south of my town.

15. Does your equipment spend more time traveling from field to field than actually doing work in the field.

I thought a BTO was anyone that farms more than you? And a part timer is anyone who farms less? Here there are severl "bto's" but they are some of the best farmers around. I don't like competing against them, but you can't argue they don't do a good job.
Josh

I guess it's a sign of the times. I saw a truck at our local gas station the other day. Had the farm name on the door under which it listed three towns in our state that the "farm" was located in. Each about 100 miles apart. I have since learned that the owner farms several thousands of acres in this state and, yes, he is good at it and with the yeilds and prices of late, he is by all accounts a multi-millionaire. And to think...his grandpa probably had 40 acres and a Super C Farmall.
Back in the 80's, when I farmed, the average here was about 400 acres. A 1000 acre farmer was a BTO then. Now if you have less than 3000 acres and don't use 12 row equipment, then you must not be a very good farmer.
BTO's are the future around here.

(quoted from post at 07:49:59 07/17/13) I guess it's a sign of the times. I saw a truck at our local gas station the other day. Had the farm name on the door under which it listed three towns in our state that the "farm" was located in. Each about 100 miles apart. I have since learned that the owner farms several thousands of acres in this state and, yes, he is good at it and with the yeilds and prices of late, he is by all accounts a multi-millionaire. And to think...his grandpa probably had 40 acres and a Super C Farmall.
Back in the 80's, when I farmed, the average here was about 400 acres. A 1000 acre farmer was a BTO then. Now if you have less than 3000 acres and don't use 12 row equipment, then you must not be a very good farmer.
BTO's are the future around here.

Click to expand...

What's your definition of a "good operator"? Clean fields of good yielding corn and beans? Modern, well maintained equipment? The ability to turn a profit without government payments? How does one guy with several farms totaling over 1000 acres do better than 5 guys with 200 or so acres do a better job?

See number 8 and 9...

We have a few BTO's around here. I guess the definition in Western New York would be more than a 1000 cows and if cash crop more than 5000 acres. Have done for work for most of them over the years. Some are real good guys and some are impossible to deal with.
The only thing I know is I would not has the temperment to be one.

Most BTO's start with a productive land base which is a function
of grandpa or great grandpa having lucked out in terms of where
they started out. I have seldom seen BTO's start off with the
most miserable ground in the county and then grow. Some have
had more luck than others. I have explained more than once to
some young beginner that not everybody gets the same deal in
life. I've seen good managers ham-strung by tragic illness in the
family costing them hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Sometimes in spite of being a good manager a guy can get
beaten down by the weather such as with hail storms or
premature frost. It's hard to fathom for some but sometimes
there is little separating the successful from the failures other
than a little luck (good or bad).

Here a BTO has to do several things to be listed like that. Has to have a least 1000 acres planted. Has to be land greedy. Has to think and tell others that smaller guys are a waste of farm land or show that attitude. My BIL farms over 1000 acres. He owns most of it but rents a little. He never tries undercutting another farmer. Treats everyone the same and in general is a nice guy. All the other guys in the area fall into that BTO category. West of me 60 miles a guy farming 1000 acres is small.

Rick

And here I thought it was Bockman Turner Overdrive. Love that band.

Not sure I understand your reply. I wasn't condoning BTO's. But some of them do pretty well with keeping the crop looking good. The personality of the BTO and the way he farms are two different things. I like small farms, but around here they don't exist. Other than me occasionally planting some rye grass in the fall, I never, ever, see a 14' disk being used anymore, nor a six-row planter. If you see a JD 4020 or a IH 806 you can bet it is hooked to a hay rake and that not often.

I really can't see what #2 has any thing to do with being a BTO or not. Some areas are only suited for 1 or 2 crops. The size of the farm depends on the area too. In my part of the country 1000 acres would be fair sized but might not support a big family. 10 miles east of me it wouldn't be considered large at all. I know a few that are farming 2000 acres with 20 year old equipment and still have their wives working in town to afford insurance. The rest of the list I can go along with especially #9.

Be very easy to answer to 1,2,10,& 11. Can,t see anything wrong with answering those 4 . May be bto and not know it.

This whole post sounds like old people on a bench at the courthouse or DPclub at the local water hole. What does good equipment, shiny, pickups and govt. payments have to do with being a good or successful operator? Bto to me is an attitude that I (BTO) will be first and biggest get out of the way.

My big concern is factory livestock farming. Back when I was a kid, Dad raised hogs much like everybody else. If a farmer had enough space to put a hog pen and a way to get them up to Olean, Charlotte would buy every single hog for 2 cents under the St. Louis market price. Then once a week, she'd load up and take them to the big city. I remember back then, the "break even" price for us was 45 cents. Anything less wouldn't cover the feed bill. We got pretty good at selling around 50 cents.

Then one day, a BIG corporation came in and flooded the market. Prices fell to about 35 cents and stayed there. The smaller guys were strangled and had to give it up. Some of the larger operations were able to contract with the big boys. But with a price tag of close to $1 million, to build a hog barn to there specs, most had to get out and Charlotte now works at Orcheln's in town.

Of course, now that the big boys have the market cornered, hog prices are back up. Enough to where I think I might be able to keep my head up if I don't get too extravagant. Of course, instead of hauling them 6 miles to Olean, I now have to haul them about 50 miles over to Freeburg. But I can do something those under contract cannot do. I can sell to individuals as well as the market.

A BTO is anyone that farms more than you do. Other definations that may be helpfull. A hobby farmer is a guy that has a job in town. A real farmer is the guy that has a wife that has a job in town.

I'm not sure where I fall...


I am not driven by greed as much as a desire to be able to call farming "my job." That means I have to be driven by making money.

As I type, I have a plat map book on my lap, looking up properties on the satellite maps to see if any of them aren't in production, and why.

One of my biggest competitors is the CRP government programs, and the other biggest competitor are the coal companies who strip mine around here.


So, if I have to make an unfair offer to keep a coal company from stripping and ruining a 300 acre farm just so 2 dozer operators and a few truck drivers can be employed, then I'll do it.

I don't hate the coal companies. I respect them making money and keeping my electric turned on. (Bruce Mansfield is coal fired and nuke) However, right now there is a shortage of skilled equipment operators and truck drivers because of the gas wells. I see license plates from Oklahoma, Missouri, Texas, more than I see Pennsylvania plates on some days. That means there are plenty of jobs. Don't make that an issue.



I am glad you decided not to take the CRP. I am not sure how old you are, but I'm relatively young (in my 30's) and being young, starting from nothing except 55 tillable acres and some 40 year old equipment, I can tell you that it is rough, and while the money in land is red hot, now is a good time to be in total control of your land.

Thanks for posting this thread. I live too close to Metro Pittsburgh, and strip mines, for me to have to deal with a lot of the stuff everyone else does.