OT/ Kitchen reno. Knob and Tube

We are doing some long over due work on the kitchen in our old farm house. When I took the ceiling down I found knob and tube wireing still in place and still powering lights ect. Needless to say, It is going. Far as I have been told by local long timers, this house would have been hooked to electric suplie from a near by town, that had 3 hydro gensets, back in the 1914-20 era. Kinda odd for a farm to have electric anything at that time. Anyone eles ever found knob and tube in their homes? Bruce

My mom's house was built in about 1920. Most of her old wiring has been replaced, but I think there is still a bit of knob and tube that is inaccessible to replacement(and unfortunately, knowing the sort of wiring my dad did, the nob and tube was better...)
I just decommissioned the knob and tube that was powering the lights and 110v outlets in my shop. Replaced with modern wire.

Ben

I run into knob and tube occasionally when I inspect older houses. Very little of it is still in use, though. Most has been replaced with romex and just never taken out.

My 1864 farmhouse still has 1 circuit on knob and tube installed during the depression. Amazingly the wiring is 10 gauge and still well insulated. I plan on leaving it for historical purposes but it will be cut off hopefully in the next year or two. Only have some lights on that circuit.

Mom & Dad's home built in 1927 & in continuous use until 2002 had all of its original knob & tube in place & working. Never a problem.

Knob and tube is the safest system ever used.

A house I owned in San Jose, CA had it (1914) The interesting thing was it had no ground rod or pipe connection at all. It also had Two 30 amp fuses, one connected to the 120 leg of the service connection, and the other in the neutral serving the whole house. Jim

Rats will chew the plastic insulation on modern wiring.Saw that a lot.Knob and tube was safer.

As an electrician I had to rewire several homes wired that way. I have spent TOO many days in an attic tracing wires by hand over hand. What a PITA! As others have said it is a very safe system, only one cannot tell the insurance companys that. If you are taking the walls down to studs no problem to rewire, but if you are trying to "fish" new wiring into walls,, it is indead an art.
Your post made me glad all over again I'm RETIRED.
joe

When I moved into my 1907 farmhouse,it had knob and tube. We were young and stupid,used a 110 volt window air in the bedroom and wondered why the cord was very warm in the morning!

The 'Tube' part makes for a great knife sharpener. I've got a whole bag of them I collected when doing remodels.

The first house that we bought had knob & tube wiring throughout. It was in real good shape, but I replaced it as we remodeled. It broke the old electricians heart that had installed it originally. The biggest problem that I had with it was determining the polarity. I marked a long drop cord so I'd know which side was neutral, then drug it up into the attic (plugged in downstairs) so I could light my neon tester on the hot one in service. Usually you can pinch one leg of the neon tester and it will light when you touch the hot, but it wouldn't light in the attic.

The good old days. Lots of needs but little money.

The house that we lived in from about '79 to'89 was knob and spool It had two circuits that were connected by a jumper. The meter was inside on the second floor and there was a pile of burned out fuses under the two circuit box. I rewired it and installed new service of course.

Over the years my family remodeled several older houses, and all of them had at least some old fashioned knob and tube wiring. In most of the houses, there was old lath and plaster, but no insulation anywhere. So our standard plan of action in the old houses was to remove the lath and plaster, put in a new service entrance and breaker boxes with all the necessary parts, rewire everything with the cable used at that time adding plenty of outlets, switches, and lights, insulating the walls with fiberglass and then putting up drywall. We also sometimes lowered ceilings and always insulated the attics, usually with fiberglass, but sometimes we used Vermiculite (which might be considered a problem these days). New kitchens, new and added bathrooms, some new windows and a bunch of finish carpentry and painting always made the houses a whole lot better and more valuable than when we started.

The first Winter we lived in the house I spent the most time growing up in, it was so loose that when the wind blew, my Dad said he had to cup his hand around the match to light a cigarette. And the oil heat bills were huge. We started working on it right away, and the next Winter was much more cozy. By the 3rd Winter, we had remodeled most of the existing house and built an addition that more than doubled the size of the house.

My Dad always deactivated and removed the wire from prior knob and tube installations, even if they were working fine. We never talked about why he did this, but I think he thought the old wiring might not be safe and wanted ALL of it replaced with new work he had done and knew it was done correctly. I saw lots of bare wires with the knob and tube wiring, especially in attics that probably were not as safe as they might have been, even though no one ever went up there. The removed knob insulators were handy sometimes for electric fencing on wood posts. I still have some removed tubes, and I like the idea of using them for knife sharpening.

I guess I disagree with the statement that knob and tube was the safest wiring system ever. It sure must have been a lot of work to install it, and the insulation that was probably supposed to be on the wiring seemed to degrade or disappear over time. I think that modern thermoplastic insulated cable is not only a whole lot easier to install, but I believe that it is MUCH safer than K&T, assuming both systems were installed in an approved manner. Time will tell as to how well current wiring systems hold up, but wiring we did 40 or 50 years ago that I have looked at recently looks just fine.

Remodeling or renovating is interesting: you never know WHAT you will encounter. But if a building was built prior to World War II, I would expect to see some knob and tube wiring, unless it had already been removed. Would I continue to use knob and tube wiring assuming it was working fine? Maybe if I was not going to do anything to the building, but not if I was going to do significant remodeling. New wiring is just one of the things I think is necessary to do a decent job. Good luck!

Knob and Tube was still being installed in new homes in 1961 in the Cleveland OH area. Union rules. I was an electricians helper that year in Local 38. Nothing wrong with knob and tube except you don't have an equipment GROUND

Several years ago tore down house built in 1929. It had knob and tube mixed with cloth covered romex with 1 copper and 1 steel wire in it.

we had our house rewired in February. one half the house was built in the 1860s, the "new" part was done in 1920. all the wiring was knob and tube. unscrew one fuse in the basement, and the lights went out in half the house.
the electrician put in a 200 amp breaker box, ran all new circuits and switches through the walls, and disconnected the knob and tube. there is enough copper in these walls to pay half the job (maybe).

The inspector from my fire insurance company told me that he would rather see knob and tube wiring in good shape than the older cloth covered Romex.

Our old house was built in 1938. Knob and tube used to put in one light in each room and 3 or 4 outlets in the whole house. Barn was wired for 2 bulbs. Insulators are still there. Was rewired sometime in the late 40's when they added on and needed more wire run.

(quoted from post at 23:16:11 05/09/13) Knob and tube is the safest system ever used.

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Our Loss Control inspectors say the same thing, when it's done properly, even though we wouldn't write insurance coverage on buildings that had it. Go figure.

Bought this farm in 1972, dairy barn still had knob and tube, since built in 35 or 37. Also had newer circuits, but nothing modern- still on a few fuses.

Safest wiring system nothing is close as far as wires totally insulated from everything still in use over hundred years later. Have it my pre 1850 home of course we have upgradeded service to total of 300 amps 200 & 100amps 2 seperate services. Knob and tube services our over head lights and a few outlets that we have added a ground to.

My story is a little different. My new wife and I looked at a rent house in central Lubbock, Texas in 1972. We think it may have been built in the 40's. I was walking around and saw a step stool in a closet that had an opening going into the attic. Being the nosy person I am, I got up on the stool and took a look. It had the knobs and tubes, without any insulation showing anywhere at all. I don't know if it was done that way or the insulation had fallen off or been eaten by whatever. My next thought was that maybe it wasn't live. Wrong on that one. I had a meter with me and after thanking the landlord for letting me look, we went elsewhere. The house is still there, don't know if it's still wired the same though.

On another note, a competitor of the store I work for went out of business about 15 years ago. We were offered the inventory at a good deal. In the back room there were several boxes of new knobs and tubes, nails and all. They were unopened and had 100 "sets" in each box. I captured two of them, opened one and left the other unopened.

You cant get Insurance on plug fuses here.Sent some photos of burned up wiring where circuit breakers failed to open to an agent.Told him if he had any Federal Pacific breakers in his service box he should have them changed.

It can handle more current plus open wire has an even higher rating than romex or bx.