Local govt. O/T. Long post!!!!!

Township is considering rebuilding our last 2 rod road in the township. It is aprox. one mile long and connects two other township rds. The two rds it connects have been rebuilt within last 20 yrs. and are 4 rod roads with nice deep ditches for snow removal. There is one home on this old road about 200 ft. from one end. Some locals on end of one of the nice roads use it as a short cut to town. Now a townie is building a new home across from the only other place on the road and he wants the township to rebuild it. I will admit the old road is in tough shape with the ditches flattened out to almost nonexistence. Hence many frost boils in spring and very hard to keep clear of snow. Of the approximate 1000 residents of the township there are only about 6 that want to spend the $80,000 to rebuild. I am not one of them as I will lose one acre of tillable ground to the project. And we already built nice 4 rod roads for the locals to use to get to town. Now for my question. I thought I heard that residents can start up a petition to strike down a decision such as this. Anyone know how many signatures are needed? Is it a number or a percentage of residents? Thanks

I believe the number of signatures differs from place to place. Here in Taxachusetts, the candidates running for the special senate seed needed 10,000. That's obviously a state issue, I know in my town, in order to get an issue on the warrant to be voted on at the next town meeting, you only need 10 signatures. So I would look into your local areas specifications.

I could be way off, but would the project theyre speaking of be considered "eminent domain"? I'm not a laywer, but I always understood eminent domain to be taking land for schools, interstate highways, etc. Again, I"m sure the checkbook is not bottomless for a lengthy lawsuit.

Good luck with your issue, I hope things work out for you.

Wouldn't your town board members know the answer to your question? If they don't...they should. Requirements in another State don't mean squat.

What state do you live in?

I'm guessing, but I think township rules vary by state.

Here in WI, we have two "meeting of the Electors" a year. One is in April, the other to pass the town budget.(usually Dec.)these are not the regular meeting.

At a meeting of the electors, everyone present can vote- audience and all, provided they are residents. Motions can also be made by the audience. Bring every friend you have that lives in the township.

In my neighborhood, all road right of ways are 66 ft, regardless of pavement width. I hate to say it, but the land you stand to lose may not be yours, but instead the townships. Sorry! A trip to the county court house may determine if that is already the case.

Our township has frequently reduced right-of-way width as requested by ajacent landowners, especially if the road was platted at a narrower width originally, and then the county assumed it was 66 ft.

Good luck... you may want to ask the board how long that one new house, that will now pay a couple hundred or so in TOWN tax will take to pay off the $80000 road. If he pays $400 in TOWN tax (not county, not school, not fire dues, etc.) his new contribution will pay off that road in 200 years, not counting interest. I'll bet he'll want it repaved before then, too.

Are the people making the decision elected officials? If so there should not be much problem getting that turned around if its 994 to 6, everyone call in and make it known that they will not be getting re-elected if they carry on with the project.

We have a guy in our county like you. Ran for the county board to lobby for a good road past his house. He did get it. Now he is against ever building any more. Vic

Your township supervisors or county supervisors should be able to answer your question more accuratly than anyone else. Are you concerned about not being compensated for your lost ground?

What are 2 rod and 4 rod roads, the road surface width or the total right-of-way width?

(quoted from post at 19:16:54 03/14/13) Township is considering rebuilding our last 2 rod road in the township. It is aprox. one mile long and connects two other township rds. The two rds it connects have been rebuilt within last 20 yrs. and are 4 rod roads with nice deep ditches for snow removal. There is one home on this old road about 200 ft. from one end. Some locals on end of one of the nice roads use it as a short cut to town. Now a townie is building a new home across from the only other place on the road and he wants the township to rebuild it. I will admit the old road is in tough shape with the ditches flattened out to almost nonexistence. Hence many frost boils in spring and very hard to keep clear of snow. Of the approximate 1000 residents of the township there are only about 6 that want to spend the $80,000 to rebuild. I am not one of them as I will lose one acre of tillable ground to the project. And we already built nice 4 rod roads for the locals to use to get to town. Now for my question. I thought I heard that residents can start up a petition to strike down a decision such as this. Anyone know how many signatures are needed? Is it a number or a percentage of residents? Thanks

Click to expand...

Sounds to me like the ball is in your court, It's p to you and other like minded citizens to get out the torches and pitchforks and block this. If there's just a few people in favor than all it should take to block it is a couple dozens solid citizens writing letters to newspapers, appearing before the Town Board, generally making a big stink. And it won't be just the cost of the road either. They'll have to compensate you for your lost land which they'll have to buy from you even if they use eminent domain. For eminent domain there usually has to be an over riding public good that's readily apparent.

Get involved, get active, find others that feel the same way. Not making a squawk about things is why we're in the mess we find ourselves now.

Do you live on a township or county road?

In order to do the work money has to be appropriated. Talk to people. Get people to come out to the meeting where the $$$ s are appropriated, to help amend the money down.

flying belgian,
as others said, contact the local officials. Here in Michigan, how the roads are maintained varies by the type of municipality. State law allows for "Special Assessment Districts" for projects like streetlights, ditching, road improvements etc. I believe a petition of over 50% of the affected residents will get an estimate developed, public hearing and then a vote by the township trustees. The cost is then added to the affected property owner tax bills for x number of years. Sounds like that $80k road could be paid for by assessing each property owner $7.5 per lineal foot of frontage. At least that's how it would work in the 2 townships I own property in here in Michigan.

I live on a county road but the proposed road runs a half mile along the south side of my homestead.

They do not have to acquire the additional right of
way from me as they were granted that years ago
through change in Mn. state statute. They just
never exersised it as no one lived on the road.

I would think that if they are exceeding the existing R.O.W., you would be compensated for your loss. If they are working within the R.O.W. (probably the case), you would not be compensated. If the improvement includes ditching, drainage and gravel, it sounds like a bargain.

Total right of way width. I am concerned about not being able to farm the one acre of ground witch is worth $400/yr. in these parts. But also as a resident of the township as a whole, I do not think it is wise to spend our tax dollars on a road that serves two homes. After all they are only 200 feet off a real nice road we rebuilt a few years ago.

Six of us say no. Three say yes. Two of the yes are town supervisors. The rest don't care.

I'm in Mn. Sounds like our local govt. is set up same as yours. The supervisors do not need a motion passed for decision to rebuild roads.

If you lived on that road you'd want it rebuilt. You wouldn't tolerate having to slog through 200 feet of mud for a month every spring.

Here in N. Texas, the county recently upgraded our road from gravel to asphalt-gravel; hard, all weather topping.

First the elected county commissioners decided what they wanted to do county wide and voted in session accordingly, which citizens can attend and speak their piece.

Then it went through the processes and wound up in the Road and Bridge Department where they came out, did a survey and environmental analysis to determine which bends to straighten out and how much the road needed to be widened to support 2 lane traffic among other things.

Then I get a letter from them requesting that I change my easement, as did others effected along the road, to accommodate the new road ROW including ditches and all showing me the legal plat for my notarized signature.

Then that went through the process and one day the heavy equipment shows up and we get our new road.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!

The budget for the county wide improvements is included in the county's general operating budget. If they didn't have the funds to support such an endeavor then a general bond election would be held for the purpose where the residents could voice their opinions through the polls. We have the money, but if not, winning an election for such as this would be a no brainer.

Oh, one final note: The EPA isn't all bad, if you get the gist.

HTH,
Mark

Does the owner of the new home have access to the rebuilt road or is he stuck using the bad road? I would think he would want the same kind of road that everyone else in the township enjoys. Roads need to be maintained and it sounds as if the township neglected this one. Fix the road. It is the right thing to do. You can always sell off plots to another homeowner and have another neighbor.

Rebuild the road as far as the necessary to get access for the existing house and the proposed house and leave the rest as a minimum maintenance road.

That is exactly what I suggested at the annual
meeting. It went over like a lead balloon.

As bad as I hate to say this it is a public road and they are required to maintain it no mater what or close it. At dads place the road is a township road and they have a 30 foot right of way but in places its much wider because of ditching issues. If they leave it as is it will see less trafic but if they rebuild it you will see more trafic more trash more wrecks and higher taxes dew to the increase in your property values. Kinda a double edge sord and no mater what they do you wont be happy. As for the land issue they can take what they need under eminent domain to fix the road for the public safety and needs. What the cost is now down the road it may double in price to redo the road. Pay me now or Pay me more later about sums it up. Bandit

Here in our area we had a guy who didn't want any part of a road upgrade past his farm. It's interesting to drive past his place now - there's nice clean 4:1 foreslopes, good ditches and 4:1 mowable backslopes - on the other side of the road from his property. On his side he still has the inadequate ditches, 1:1 slopes covered with brush, and a broken down barbed wire fence. It reminds you of a man with a scraggly beard, but clean shaven on one side only. But like the others have said - the squeeky wheel gets the grease. Make your wishes known to the people that count, and good luck finding a compromise.

Where I came from there are many homes that are the only one on a township road. You might drive 2 or 3 miles before you come to the next one. Maintaining 2 or 3 miles for one guy to get to his place is not really any different than this deal. If it is a laid out road it has ROW's already and if your farming them your getting more than your supposed to. Sounds like you don't like the idea of a "townie" building new in your area. The rest of the roads as you say were rebuilt for the rest of you to use so why object to this guy wanting his part redone?

I rearraged your list of reasons in favor of rebuilding the road. I hate to say it but you will probably be getting a new road. If you have already expressed your opions, I wouldn't waste any more time trying to fight it. Instead concentrate on making sure you are compensated for your losses. Good luck.

"our last 2 rod road in the township"
"There is one home on this old road"
"Now building a new home on the road and he wants the township to rebuild it"
"connects two other township rds".
"Some locals use it as a short cut to town"
"the old road is in tough shape with the ditches flattened out to almost nonexistence... very hard to keep clear of snow"
"aprox. one mile long and $80,000 to rebuild"

Let me kind of sum this up. You are a resident/land owner of the township. The fellow building the new home is also a resident/land owner of the township. The road is question is the last one in the township not upgraded. You are not wanting the road widened because you would loose 1 acre of ground.

1) The law does not differentiate between residents by seniority when doing road projects. So the "townie" has the same right to a good road as you do.

2) IF the county/township does not already have the right of way then you will be compensated for it. If they do have the right away you do not own the land anyway. You have been farming the "public" land for free all these years.

3) You do have the right under MN law to petition the board but this petition is not legally binding to the board. They make the decision on road repair and maintenance.

4) The board is required to maintain the road year round. Quote from you "I will admit the old road is in tough shape with the ditches flattened out to almost nonexistence. Hence many frost boils in spring and very hard to keep clear of snow. ". The county may not only upgrading the road because the "townie" is requesting it. They may be doing it to reduce the long term cost of maintaining the road. They may also have a long term up grade plan and this road's turn is just now.

To me it sounds like sour grapes on your part. You have your good road so the heck with anyone else wanting the same.

That "townie" building that new house will pay more in property taxes than the county was getting. So he is kind of paying for the improvements over time. Would it be better for the township/county to close the road and then have all the houses and buildings torn down on the properties so the township/county get less in taxes???

I for one am glad when the roads in the rural areas are up graded. I have had land used for this purpose. If the urban residents had their way there would be even less money spent in the rural areas. I will bet that the ratio of road funds/to taxes collected is higher in the rural areas. It is in most farm states. So if the Urban residents got their tax money spent only in their area the rural roads would not be usable. A big part of your township/county road funds are coming from the state tax money collected state wide and spent proportionally higher in rural areas.

There is a principle of "public good". Good rural roads are a real good example of this. If they ever go to a proportionally "equal" funding system then the rural residents will lose out big time.

Here in North Carolina, there are no "township" or "county" roads; all roads, outside of town or city limits, are maintained by the state (thank goodness).

You can always do like the BTO's in my area. Let them redo the road and put in the ditches. Then farm the ditches closed and gain it back.

If you were or your predecessors were never compensated for the right of way then they will have to pay you for everything that they took illegally. the Supreme Court ruled on this for a local guy here who was being robbed of land by the city.
They wanted to clear the bank and removed trees on my north side road not my place across the road.. One neighbor fell into the trap and let them take it for free. the other right on the corner where they needed the clearance real bad, asked how much they were paying him. they said nothing. his answer was "well then you get nothing." his trees are still standing the other guys land was taken down to worthless soil and left.
Walt

Tell him if he wanted to build a house on a nice road he should have bought property on a nice road.

If you understood how hard some of us have to fight just to get that damn dirt track maintained at all you'd be on your knees praying that they WOULD upgrade the road so it would be usable as an all weather road.
The line of thinking you're following right now leads down a pretty dark path after 40 years. Eventually everyone else moves away and you're the only one at the end of the road and there's no money to maintain that...

Rod

DAMMM them BTO's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You could do like we did when our road was a sloppy mess due to no ditches. Clean them out yourself.

Belgin,

If they are talking about the map recording prosses I think thatw as struck down bt the courts,as confinscation without compentation. At least that is the case in Mn. Do they have a ROW or a Easement? they are diff. One is owned and one is granted. We had this problem in our township and the township lost and had to pay.

However your R&B fund covers all roads in township even if they come from town and build.
Bad thing is this is only the beginning of what is to come. Funny how they come from Town to get away from it all but then want to bring it all with them.