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Frozen underground drain line

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picassomcp

Member
I have a 3" drain line from the house to the septic tank that has frozen. I'm assuming at this point that the pipe has either heaved or sunk in the middle and has created a low spot, which freezes solid. About 12-15 feet of line freezes solid. I've had the local drain steemer guy out twice this week. $175 a shot! I'm looking for a way to keep this from freezing until I can dig it up once the frost is out. I have tried hooking a garden hose to the hot water line in the house and running it thru the drain line, I only got about 1/2 way thru when I ran out of hot water. Pushing on the hose, it wanted to double over and kink. This idea didn't work well at all. I am finding myself at a loss here and have quite a while to go before I can dig it up. This home is in a heavily populated area and I can't just run the sewage out above ground, not even for a short bit. The steemer guy has a hot water pressure washer that he uses. Looks like a pretty slick set up and it makes short work of the job but I'm sure its not cheap. I'm hoping someone has a creative idea that will keep the line open can buy me some time till frost out. Thanks!
 
Try calling your local rental store and ask them if they have a hot water pressure washer. They are fired by some form of fuel and you don't run out of hot water. May want to ask them if they have a flexible continuous flow wand that you don't have to squeeze like a typical pressure washer.

Leonard
 
What I do in the farmhouse which we do not use in the winter is to blow the pipes out with compressed air. It seems like you would need an awful lot to clear a pipe that size, though, I am just dealing with 1/2" water pipes.
Zach
 
Agree with Loren. Once you get it thawed, cover the area with hay bales and plastic over the hay so they don't get soaked.
 
Part of the problem here is that the area that freezes is under the driveway. I can't cover it with bales. I understand that driving over a line is always a risk, but this line when sloped correctly as it was for many years, is always empty due to the slope draining the water away. The best solution I have come up with to this point is to flush some salt pellets each night. Not sure if it will work, but its the best I have come up with to this point. I'm still looking for new ideas though. I should also add that this line is PVC
 
They make an electric heat cable that they use on roofs to melt ice and snow at the overhang. It stands up to rain, ice and snow.
Run that down the sewer line and turn it on.
 
Temporarily you could use a product like Reflectix. Its like a foil faced bubble wrap that can be used under floor heat. Its only about a 1/2" thick and its worth an R-7.
 
At one time at an old farm we put a "roof ice melt cable" in a drain line that often froze. The small amount of heat was enough to keep the line open.
 
If your suspect area is legit, get someone with ground thawing heater to expose the line and fix it. Sewer/water contractors should have that equipment. Otherwise you need to insulate the line after thawing, wait til Spring.
 
I have thawed out lines a lot longer than 15' with a garden hose and cold water, it just takes time. You could buy some pretty good garden hose for $175! You could also recirculate the same hot water if you had a way to catch it and pump it. Once you get it thawed put an internal heating cable in it as suggested. You could also cover the driveway with hy-density foam with some OSB on top.
 
If you can get liquid into the line without adding water (like a cleanout plug), then pour about 5 gallons of windshield washer juice into the line (alcohol, and it is much cheaper than the sipping kind).

My bro was in the septic system repair business and he used many cases of the blue WWJ during each winter. He even set it up with a 5 gallon jug and a 12 volt pump so he could pump the blue juice through a garden hose. You could send the dry garden hose down the frozen pipe until it hits obstruction, then turn on the pump, and probably get it broke loose with about 1 gallon. If you can get the blue stuff right tight up to the frozen spot, then you are not dilluting the WWJ with other drain water. It should get a reasonably quick response (but varies with the length of the ice plug). Of course this is only a temporary fix, as the ground is still frozen.

Good Luck!! I hate septic system problems, and I have dealt with a bunch of them (just not this winter.. keeping fingers crossed).

Paul in MN
 
After you have the steamer dude blast it, insert your garden hose with out any water in it. Or should I say...leave a empty hose in the pluged area. Then if it freezes, turn on the hot water at a medium flow. A soft copper pipe may work better. Then remove the hose real slow as the hot water melts the ice as you remove the hose real slow. Plain old cattle grade salt added to the sewer at bed time will help a little if you flush it down the toilet, and turn out the lights. Best to determine how far down the line the plug is at....with a sewer rat..and place the discharge end of the garden hose just a few feet father down the line so you do not waste any hot water. No need for hot water down stream from the plug. I sure hope you can understand my explanation. Also remember to charge the water hose with cold water as you insert it to keep it stiffer.
 
Salt might kill every thing in your septic tank!
Frostex II is a heater cable that is self regulating and can be cut to length. It will not overheat. it doesn't take hot water, just continuous non frozen water. Were it mine I would put 2" of styrene blue form and plywood over it for the time being. with 2X4 to strengthen the edges. Jim
 
Lay some sheets of styrofoam on top of the ground over top the pipe. Put some cinderblocks on them to hold them down..that'll stop the freezing
 
I would flush the salt down there, what have you got to lose. You're gonna have to dig it up in the spring anyway to fix it and you can pump the tank then. Try a piece of 1/2" black plastic pipe it should push in better than a garden hose. Cut an angle on the end you push in and put garden hose fittings on the other end.
 
At work in the freezer where it's -20 below 0 our unit drains freeze up where they drain to the outside. That's a 2" iron pipe drain. When they freeze up we stick a smaller pipe inside the drain pipe and then put the cutting torch inside the smaller pipe and just keep pushing in on the small pipe. It thaws out pretty quick and keeps it open.
 
Hey Pic.

I have had some luck defrosting pipes with a section of air brake hose (the stiff 1/4 in. type) by pumping air from a small compressor into the hose.

Does not work super quick but working from the low side it eventually works and is a heck of a lot cheaper than a steam jenny.

Good luck,

Brad
 
The water level in a septic tank should stay below the inlet so the inlet pipe will fully drain out. Needing to thaw/unplug the inlet line twice in one week is extreme unless the inlet pipe is broken.

You don't have a problem of too much water in the septic tank and water backing up into the inlet pipe you? Possible high water causes could be:
a plugged drainage field;
a plugged outlet line;
a plugged septic tank;
or ice forming in the septic tank.
 
When we had a line freeze on the farm, we laid down a thick bed of coal and kept it burning for 24 hours. That thawed the ground and we were able to dig up the drain pipe by hand and replace the pipe that was causing the problem.
 
the one thing you don't want to do is put anything like salt, antifreeze, or anything that will kill the bacteria in your tank, unless you want more trouble then you allready have
 
I'm in texas where the waste lines are buried shallow. I thought I had problem with the pipe freezing one winter in a low spot and thought I would raise it to be inline with the rest of the pipe. I dug it up only to find out the low spot wasn't frozen but collapsed from driving over it with the tractor.
 
speaking as one who did that as a last resort, blowing out a blocked sewer line with compressed air is a bad idea, it does work well for fresh water lines though, while i did use a mobile compressor like is used to run a jack hammer, which i just happened to have at the house from work, and i did "feather" the air supply into the line it caused the line to rupture and made the situation much worse, also required the line to be dug up and replaced, from his description, what i figure he is going to find is either his tank is full and backing up in the sewer line, the outlet to the leach field is collapsed, or that the line has indeed sunk, under the driveway from the weight of vehicles driving over it for a period of time,in which case the only cure is to dig it up and fix it, probably with a excavator with a frost tooth on its bucket
 
If the line is thawed out now you can put some straw over it to keep the ground from freezing. It may be too late for that though if its still froze. I sell straw to contractors that put it on the ground to keep it from freezing before they pour cement on it. My friend always puts a few bales around his out door hydrant every winter to protect it from freezing.
 
I've got a tip for my Hotsy that I bought at the Landa (I think) dealer. Has four jets that spray backwards to pull the hose through the pipe and one jet that sprays forward to blast throught the clog. Never tried it on ice, would probably work. I think I paid $10 for the tip. Screw it on the hose, don't use quick detach. Don't want to lose the tip cown there.
 

I think that I would be covering it with two layers of foam board, with some weight over it to insure ground contact. This would be movable for when you need to drive over it.
 
I would consider checking your septic tank to make sure dont have a problem that causes water to back up in the pipe and then freeze. The pipe should have enough pitch to drain out and shouldnt freeze unless there is damage (collapsed). Do you have a vent pipe just ahead of the tank inlet ? There usually is a trap there at the tank inlet and it could be blocked. If water is backed up into the vent pipe it may be frozen there too. If you get it all thawed get a "street plunger" which is a thick rubber disc that hooks to a piece of pipe and try plunging the vent pipe. You can watch down the vent once it is unfrozen with a light to see if you have a good flow inot the tank . If it backs up you have a plugged trap, tank is full and needs pumping , or your problem is beyonfd the outlet of the tank(collapsed pipe, roots ,distribution box/ drainfield/drywell issues)
 
What I have done once you dig up line in spring run you 3" plastic sewer line thru a 8" black field tile line this will separate the cold ground from the line I did this when running a water line under my drive way has never frozen in 20 years and I live in MN just my 2 cents
 
How old is the system and when did the problem appear.
If the septic system tank and drains are bunged. Is the water softener, washing machine, bathtubs, sinks or dish washer putting grey water down the black water system?
Running a separate grey water drain and leaving the septic for toilets and toilets only will eliminate most septic problems.
Anybody or anything new to the household and putting anything different down the drain?
 
JK-NY, My house was built in the 60's, and they used 4 in. clay tile. I "suspected" the trap at the tank inlet. I dug it up, and busted it with a sledge hammer. It was solid hair! Replaced it with a short piece of PVC, straight through. I have not had to run a roto-rooter since. 10 years +
 
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