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Tractors that proved themselves/and didn't

R

rrlund

Well-known Member
OK,it's just plain ugly outside here and we're supposed to talk tractors,so what older tractors have proved themselves over the years to be tough as nails and which ones kind of fell out of favor?
The 4020 Deeres of course have proven themselves. The 730 Diesel was proof thet they went too far with 2 cylinders and just make great trailer queens. Are the 3020s loosing favor with the internal balancer and the fact that those engines were only used in those tractors?
The Farmall Hs and Ms are still going strong.
The Oliver Fleetlines were bulletproof. The 1550s,the entire 1600 series all the way up through the last edition of them,the White 2-70,there just weren't enough made for what should be the demand for a tough simple tractor like that. The 1850 diesel,tough as nails,the 1365,after the bad reputation of the Fiat builts up to that point,are accepted now as being way under rated and under appreciated.
The 1855 diesel,unless it's been updated is a disaster and some say was the undoing of Olivers reputation. The Cat throw away engine in the 2255 didn't do them any good.

What else?
 
These Massey's I run are tough old girls, the perkins is a strong runner and they just keep chugging. Yeah the hydraulics leave something to be desired and the cabs on the 1105 and 1135 aren't real great but for 35 year old machines they are still horses. We also run a pair of 180 MF diesels, with great bend loaders, they are great chore tractors.
 
Anything you'd add to the list that fell out of favor? I know the German diesel in the 706 was OK,but I had an early 706 diesel that turned me off to the darned things. Were there any others that kinda gave IH a bad reputation?
 
The 560's and 460's. Not a huge fan of the 86 series either. We have a 766 and a 1066 that have been great. Also, a 756, with German diesel, that gets worked every day as our crap spreader. Sure doesnt look like much but is very reliable and gets the job done.
 
Lemons- Pretty much any IH with a T/A, Ford Select-o-speed and the 6000. The Belerus.

On the good side- any Ford hundred series without SOS. Most any Allis Chalmers. The Farmall Cub. Letter John Deeres.
 
2000 series Massey, beginning of the end...2675, 2705,2745,2775,2805. While some of them may have been strong, the 24 spd gave them all a bad rep. Also the hydraulics, styling and layout of the cabs was a low point, I am a Massey man, but that is one ugly tractor. Same goes for the 3000 series. As of late the final blow to the MF legacy is Agco parts, Agco is trying very hard to make all of these obsolete.
 
The 06 and 56 series were as good as any of them for dependability along with the 66. As mentioned befroe the 60 series were the demise of IH.
I always liked the Hand M after that didn't care for them much till the 06 series.
The Allis model like the WD45 with the German diesel was not that good.Seemed to start hard in the summer. Dealer brought one out to try used one time.
 
How about the Allis D 21 and One Ninty? I love to drive the One Nintys,just like the way the platform is layed out and just the way they handle,but didn't they prove to have transmission problem over the years? Something about popping out of gear?
 
Well, I know that when most of you gentlemen talk tractors, you mean TRACTORS. But in my neck of the woods farms were seldom over a hundred/hundred fifty acres, many were fifty to a hundred. SO I grew up around smaller tractors. Our first tractor was a Case VA, it was OK but the lift was weak. Couple years later Dad bought a VAC which had a good hydraulic system and would pull pretty good.
I always liked the Massey-Harris numbered series, (22,33, & 44) Three of my neighbors bought new 22s at the same time and I put in a few hours seat time on one. Two plow, considerable better than an 8N, but their undoing was the frame. I remember crossing a terrace with one and noticing how the frame would flex. (and I was only 13 or 14 at the time), and we all know "the rest of the story", One of the men kept his and I asked a friend who lives in the old neighborhood what ever happened to it.He laughed and replied, "Last time I saw it, it was laying in a shed in two pieces!" Always heard MMs were good, but never were any around here. I realize I am talking history here, but I have kinda lost track of what's happening now in the tractor world, what with so many merging, etc. About the only thing in my neighborhood where I live now is mean and green. (with yeller wheels).
 
I have a 3545 that is every bit as reliable if not
more than my 1100 series. With AC working those cabs
are second to none.
 

'65 ford series..

The 5000 was a rock and still is. Same for the 3000.

MF35 were pretty solid and simple.
 
I think the old SC and DC Cases were pretty tough weren't they? As long as the drive chains were kept tight? There were a lot of jokes about them,like forgetting to put the front wheel on them til it was too late,and the "chicken roost" steering,but overall,an under rated tractor.
 
We had a similar experience with an IH 806 we bought used.
I sware, by the time we sold that JUNK heap, I thought the model number was the bare minimum of things that could and would go wrong, and the serial number was closer to the actual number of things that whent wrong on the one we had. So I'm exaggerating a lot, but it sure felt that way.
Why we didn't just ship it to China as scrap metal I'm not sure. Think dad got more out of it at public auction than scrap price, as it looked nice, but was plum neare worn out inside.
That's both the newest tractor we've ever had, and I'd say the only one that gave more problems than was tolerable.
The rest of the tractors have needed rings/ sleeves/ etc, or a clutch, and one needed rear end work, but not much more.
 
I'm curious how you say a 730 is a trailer queen. We have mostly green tractors but have some red mixed in. I've had h's,m's and we currently have a super M now and id rather drive our 730 any day everyday over them. Deere did the right thing doing away with the 2- bangers but still better than any farmall lol..
Good topic by the way.
John deeres best tractor -4020
worst tractor- 1010 diesel
 
Oliver 550. If they still built this tractor, people would line up to buy em.
IH 66 series. Still TONS of those in the fields.
Couldn't agree more with you on the 2-putters. Lots of small dairies/livestock farms in y corner of western PA and LOTS of fleetlines, supers, farmalls (M, 460, 560, 656, etc) and masseys still working, but NOBODY runs 2cyl johns. Except on the pulling track that is. I am not saying they did not prove themselves, it's just the ones i mentioned are SO much nicer to run.
 
Each model has its supporters and detractors. We have gotten along great with our JD 4010 diesel. A lot of 3020's were sold around here and most of them were hung on to. The 3010/ 3020 motors were designed the way they were to take advantage of the economies of using tooling and hardware to build the six cylinder engines. Deere took too long to purge the horizontal 2 cylinder engines but each company can write a thick chapter as to what should have been done different.
The Olivers as a line were fine tractors. Lately, I've been hankering for a 770 and a 880.
Oliver's biggest problem was it was late to the full line concept and when tractor sales were strong in the 1970's they did not have a direct answer to the IH 1066/ 1466 and JD 4430/ 4630.
I like the IH gas start diesels. I don't look at the 460/ 560 tractors as being terrible but IH's competitors put products on the market that were simply ahead of those two tractors. It happens.
Ford might have still been selling tractors and implements today if Ford Motor had a different attitude toward agriculture. The focus at various times was too narrow and they missed the motion of the market. The 4020 and 806 were well entrenched while the Ford management was scratching their heads before the 8000 came out in 1968.
I could go one but I will not. I guess whether I like a given tractor or not does not matter in the end. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If somebody's father or grandfather made a living and provided for his a family with a tractor successfully then I can not argue with that person because I dislike that particular model.
 
I went from an Oliver 88 diesel to a 730 diesel for my "big" tractor back in the day. Super easy on fuel,a nice looking tractor that I liked to drive,but it was just one thing after another with that thing. It was a 1960 with electric start and a wide front,should have been like a Cadillac,but with all the trouble I had with it,it was third on my list of worst tractors I ever had,behind the Farmall 706 diesel and Deere 3010 diesel. Maybe it was a lemon,don't know,but it just nickle dimed me to death. I'd just get going doing some serious work with it and it'd be back in the shop for a few days getting something else fixed.

We used to buy a lot of tractors from the sale in Archbold. You could send a dime and they'd send a list of tractors from the previous sale,what they brought and whether or not they sold. By the late 60s darned near a half a page or more would be 730 diesels,they had that many of them coming in. Not pretending to know,but it appeared so many were being traded in on New Generation tractors,the dealers couldn't get rid of them all and brought them in to get whatever they could for them.
 
I have to add the -40, and really the -30 series Deeres. These are easy to work on and about as good a bunch of tractors as JD ever put out. They handle great, and don't kick up too many problems. The cab could have been a bit better, but are adequate for the time they were built, and not bad for today. The 466 will be among the best in the business, and the transmissions have held up well. Even the older 404's are really not a bad engine- just a bit slow on power. And, if it happens to be a powershift, you have to go a long way to improve on the reliability they had. I've had a 4240 and a 4430, and both were good, strong tractors.
 
I agree with someone elses nomination of the IH66 series,

We had a 706 with the German diesel, no cab

And a 766 with Cab, A/C and heater.

Both bought new.

When we decided to downsize and stop row cropping in 1996, guess which one I kept. I'm still using the 706.

Gene
 
Whatever color your loyalty lies with I think we can agree on one thing... Any of the junk being made today, even with the extra comforts, will never last the life span of either the Farmall letter series and into the 460-560, Any of the John Deere's before 1970ish, and any other make/model before the late 60's-70's. They just dont make them like they use to. This is coming from a 21 year old that can appreciate the old iron.
 
I know the Ford, not the one made by Henry, is the tractor that started the Nebraska Tests. Some guys patented the Ford name before Henry could do so and they were terrible. That is why his first attempts were called Fordsons.
From R.B. Gray- The Agricultural Tractor 1855 to 1950. Wonderful Book
 
Not sure how many tractors we owned since my dad bought the first one (an Avery)in 1951, but it's probably 30 or more. Only bad one was a 190XT; I was still working for my dad and he thought we needed another 4020-size tractor. It was practically new and we had a good relationship with the A-C dealer. (There were Ford, JD, Case, A-C and Farmall dealers in the county at the time; only JD is left). At the time, we were using twin 110 gallon saddle tanks (on the tractors) for chemicals and the ones for the JDs wouldn't fit, so I spent a couple of days making racks, plumbing a new pto pump, etc. We were used to tractors having 2 oil systems......one for engine and the other for everything else. I disremember exactly, but the the XT had 4 or 5 oil compartments and it was impossible to keep the oils separated. When a seal or gasket would fail, oil would foam out all over. In the 2 or 3 months we had the thing, it spent more time in the shop than in the field; we carried it to the dealer for the last time and he refunded all the purchase money; went and bought another 4020....
 
Like someone else said, the IH 66 series were their downfall. Back in the 1970's, almost everyone around here had new 66 series tractors. Now most all those guys run green. Seems like the 1466 and 1566 were the worst. 1066 didn't have enough power to tear things up like the bigger ones.

We had a M-M G900 and Oliver 1755. Later they got traded for White 2-135 and 2-110 respectively. The G900 was good, 1755 was one of the best tractors we ever owned. 2-135 was a well laid out tractor with lots of power, but had a poor engine, poor steering, broke PTO shaft, 3-speed went out, etc, etc. Dad in the end wished he would have bought a 4440 John Deere. Many around here went 10,000 plus hours trouble free. The 2-110 was a nice, reliable tractor with the Perkins engine.
 

Never been in a 3000 series, I'd like to look at one to see what there like. I'd like to find a 140ish hp tractor in the next few years. My generalization was that MF engineering didn't keep up with the rapid advancement of it's competitors in that time period.
 
I believe you are correct that there was an issue, mostly due to the injection pumps being turned up beyond the transmissions capacity to handle the power long term.
My experience has been with the lettered Allis' and there were tough, powerful tractors for their time and size.
 
How about the 200 Allis? I know two guys across the road from each other south of here. They both have bigger tractors around,but one has four 200s and the other has one. They seem to run those things all the time for haying,planting,spraying and such.
I wonder if they got all the bugs out of the One Ninty when they got to those. That's just it in a lot of cases. The previous model of a tractor had such a bad reputation that nobody wanted to give the next generation a chance and it hurt the reputation of the whole company.
 
I don't know, there's lots of NH7740's and 7840's around with 10,000-20,000 hours on them already and haven't been apart yet. See lots of 7000 series John Deeres in that range too.

Not a lot of older tractors make that kind of hours.
 
There are some situations were I wouldn't use a two cylinder such as loader work or on the PTO. But when JD switched over to the New Generation tractors they lost the fuel economy, the torque, and lugging ability their 2 cylinder diesels had. Out here in wheat country many a guy tried a 4010 and even 4020 and went right back to their 830s and 820 as they could pull just as much in most cases and do it on less fuel. JD didn't sell a tractor after shutting down the 2 cylinders until the 5010/5020.
 
some of these old tractors also fell out of favor with nothing really wrong with them, the high cost of fuel, and the advancement in engines ect allowed a smaller more fuel efficient tractor to do the same job, kind of sad in a way as some of these big brutes deserved better, but at least there still around as part time or backup units
 
There is a big difference in hours. New tractors use electic tachs that put hour on every hour the tractor is running older tractors used gear driven tachs so one hour at half throttle only put one half hour on the tach.That is why you see so many newer tractors with high hours.
 
Farm built by M's. Deere 2010 worst ever. Surprised we ever had another Deere after that. Now have a 2755 w 20,000 hrs, 4055 w 14,000, 7800 w 19,000,& 8410 w 7500 hrs. All very reliable and tough tractors. I think those hours would have brought most older ones to their knees.
 
A lot of you guys are confusing worn out with bad quality.

Example, that "bad" 806 described earlier. He went through the whole story about how awful that tractor was, then mentioned that it was "plum wore out inside" or something like that.

No tractor is going to last forever. Eventually your favorite is going to wear out and start giving you problems.
 
The problem wasn't the 66 series. The problem was the 86 series was no real improvement other than a better cab and the 66 series was barely an improvement over the 56 series. While other makes had perfected their versions of powershift transmissions, IH was still using their early 1960s design on their big tractors and their early 1950s design on their smaller tractors.
 
I can't say that there are any flaws in the 200 that contributed to the death of Allis. It was also nothing special. We still use one today for the bigger stuff. For how old it is it's fairly reliable. BUT, the cab is noisy, the transmission sucks, the engine is cold blooded, and it's a torqueless wonder. Can't shift on the go, it pops out of 3rd just thinking about going downhill and pops out of 2nd downhill with a heavy load. The PD is great in my opinion. Dead reliable. It would be useless without it because it lacks true live PTO. It won't start below 60F and has no lugging ability what so ever. Just falls flat on it's face when the going gets tough. The early 190Xt also had major rear end problems, which didn't help it's reputation at all.The 190 and 200 had little to do with the demise of Allis. I think it's more than fair to blame that on the 7000 series. Had Allis skipped the 7000 and gone right to the 8000 series, they would have had a better chance of being around today.
 
Even with that they are still getting more hours. It's not uncommon to find an old weary tractor from the 1950s with their original rubber - they didn't work to many hard hours.
 
I kinda liked the cat 3150 ad 3208 in the 2255, love the sound with a strait pipe to, I think they hold up pretty well. I know my dad loved his and said it was trouble free in the late 70s early 80s
 
we had the 2805 and it was a great tractor bought it after the owner could not keep it together it was in the shop because HE had no idea how to run or maintain it. i was working at a Massey dealer at the time and the owner just stopped payments on it so we bought it CHEEP and worked the H out of it with never a down day. cab was a low point?? who had a better one at that time JD Not Case not IHC not sure didn't have one
 
just so you know the wd 45 diesel was a Buda 236 cid if i rember right engine made in the states was bought by ac a little later on knot a very good model
 
what got massey in trouble with the 2000 was not enough testing before release. that tractor was not to be released for 2 years latter then it was but the big wigs and dealers wanted it now because Deere had a power shift or real close to releasing one. then Massey had labor union trouble so things fell apart fast
 
I bet in 100 years all the stuff that is at antique shows today will still be there and 150 - 200 years old.

All this more modern stuff from say mid 90's when the electronics started appearing will be long gone. Nobody will be able to restore it due to lack of parts, computer software or know how.

I worked on a brand new 6125R the other day. all the plastic cab trim will be long gone in those in 100 years I've seen better quality plastic in an Ertl tractor cab L.O.L.
Regards Robert
 
Whether you like the brand or not, there are a few tractors that have pulled their weight and then some. Such as the H and M, the 8n, the WD-45, the 560, the 4020, the 5000 Ford, the 1650 Oliver, THE 1066, the 4440, the 135, the 806. I bought a 1954 SMTAD in 2002 that was so solid and strong that I figured it to only have about 1000 hrs. Found a little dinky hour meter on it that read 13,876 hrs. These are classics and I know I've missed a couple in my list.
 
The tractors of the late 40's and early 50's mostly proved themselves to be simple reliable machines. Just think of the amount of work that was done by them, and the way many were repaired, and they still kept running and now we're restoring them. Pretty remarkable machines I think. Ergonomics was only a word in the dictionary, and most of us who used them can't hear much these days, but the tractors themselves were mostly overdesigned, well built, and reliable with simple maintenance. This includes all the major brands. Some of the companies that started right after the war are not included. Just my opinion, and I've driven most of the major brands of that day.
 
AC 190's Transmission problem was caused by you having to shift from 3rd to 4th to get going in road gear with any kind of load. This rounded off the shifter teeth on 4 th gear. It would then fly out of gear when you would coast with it.

The 301 engine would not lug hardly at all. Then they would not last much over 3000 hours with out overhauls.

Neighbor had three of them. He used our tractors as much as the AC 190s. The ACs would be broke down and he would use our JD and IH to finish planting with.
 
A Super C was our handiest tractor and 400LP our workhorse. Both excellent machines. Then dad bought the first new 4010D in the area when they came out. That was the best thing since sliced bread. We only had IH and JD dealers in the area, but most farmers had 4010s or 4020s within the next few years. One guy bought a new 1206 and still uses it. It was the first tractor I ever saw with a cab and first I saw pull a 4 bottom plow. Only a few Olivers (77 and 88) and one MM close to us. No AC. Guess the only tractor we had that I never really cared for was a 3020LP. Always hard to start and didn"t have the power of the 400.
I have a JD4320 now, and still want a Super C.
 
I think the MF 2000 series were the first ROPS approved cabs with a huge amount of glass. They had the most viewing area of any cab on the market.

The 100 series and 200 series MF's are some of the most bullet proof tractors made with only a couple of bad models (130, 235). I read on the post about an MF museum that they figured about 2 million 135's and the newer version 240's were built or licensed all over the world.
 
Despite problems with the 2000 series, later models
of MF's(after the 2000 series) were winning design
and innovation awards in Europe. Massey won the
world plowing match a few times too so I don't think
their engineering was lacking. Putting the 2000's
out early did cost them but the eighties economy was
hard on a lot of big name lines. Just look at how
many heavy equipment manufacturers went under or got
bought out.
 
Speaking of ford flops, how about the 6000! Neighbor bought one, snapped cranks, jerkpmatic transmission, put a blower on it, blew so much black smoke, the local FD would get calls for a tire fire!
 
A gas 3020 wouldn't even be close to a 400. 200 cu in vs 264 or 281. I have a recently overhauled 3010D with JD 3020 kit and a 400 gas. Not close in power, the 400 is a hoss with much lugging ability. I like the 3010, but the 400 is in the next class.
 
I am pretty happy with my 78 Belarus 800 i bought 27 yrs ago with 5000 hrs on it, it is still used almost daily for feeding and has nou over 15000 largely trouble free hrs on it.I pack 4 rounds of hay at a crack with it,2 up front and 2 on the 3 point hitch.
It has proven to be one tough SOB of a tractor. :wink:
14990.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 11:15:15 02/20/13) A gas 3020 wouldn't even be close to a 400. 200 cu in vs 264 or 281. I have a recently overhauled 3010D with JD 3020 kit and a 400 gas. Not close in power, the 400 is a hoss with much lugging ability. I like the 3010, but the 400 is in the next class.
Click to expand...


HMMMMM I'd have to question that.

3020 Gas tested at 54 HP at the drawbar and 59 at the PTO

400 Gas tested at 50 HP drawbar and 54 belt.

Rick
 
Everybody thinks A-C died because of failures in its ag line. Actually, A-C failed because the entire company imploded in the early 80s. They were in lots of fields other than ag. Its just that when the court ordered a liquidation, it didn't matter that the ag line was one of the few division NOT losing money . . . it was sold to Deutz, who wanted the dealer network, the Gleaner combines, and the corn planter. Many A-C dealers quit because they didn't want to deal with Deutz and it backfired on the Germans, then along came AGCO to pick up the pieces. Now of course since you've got different people running AGCO, the A-C heritage has been forgotton and Massey-Ferguson and Challenger are the 'it' lines.
 
That 3020 test was at 2500 rpm, but 540 PTO was at
2100. Only got 54 hp with throttle past the stop
and can't run your chopper at 2500 rpm (at 2500rpm
your chopper would be running at 643 instead of
540). Very misleading. My 60 hp 3010 has about 47
PTO hp at 2100 rpm (the 540 pto setting).
 
About the only thing a two cylinder was better than was a horse and thats arguable. Nothing like having a headache after working in the field all day....there was good reason why IH was number one for years. I'm still not sure how John Deere survived, at least up to 1960. They woke up after that.
 
I have a 400LP and I will also concur that is has more power than it appears to have. It's been beat to death, and I am amazed that it runs today. It used to have a wide front that I broke feeding cattle with one day and we put the rear axle off a 715 combine. That ol tractor is lucky to get its oil changed annually let alone much else love.

It has been doing that around here since 1996 when I bought it. I use it when needed, but it never fails to jump to the occasion. I have even had the big tandem manure spreader on it at times, and I have to go slow or I am afraid I will break off the drawbar. We usually have the 4430 on that detail, but during planting it gets pulled to the planter.
 
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