Story on a Cheap mechanic!!

After seeing Ralph's post below It made me think of a funny thing going on here. Back in the fall I did a Clutch job on a neighbors JD 4640. Their's broke down right in the middle of silage season. I got it done in a long day.

Another neighbor has a JD 4440 that the clutch is slipping on. He talked to the other neighbor. He then came to me for an estimate for doing his tractor. He wanted me to match the labor price this guy in town is working for. I told him I really did not want to do the job but if I did it would be the normal charge I change everyone else. HE got all mouthy and told me he was going to take it to town.

So he took it to the guy in Nov. It is still setting in the guy's shop in two pieces. The owner has had to rent a tractor to put on his TMR wagon once it got cold. So I guess he is really "saving" money. LOL

My one son is kind of a friend with the fellow that is quoting the cheap labor prices. HE told him he had never done one of the JD wet clutches. He does not know how to set the pressure plate up with the new parts in it. Plus he did not remove the flywheel to have it resurfaced. HE says it "looks" good. Not measured flat but "looks" good. LOL.

The JD 4440 owner came to me a while back and wants me to go in and just set the pressure plate for the other guy so he can finish the work. NO WAY NO HOW am I going to get involved with this mess. I know if I set it and they put it together like it is it will be out in less than a year. Then the JD 4440 owner will run around telling everyone how "MY" work is no good. They made their bed so they can sleep in it together as far as I am concerned.


So I guess you still get what you pay for most times.

PS. The fellow that is doing the cheap labor has four or five tractors setting there right now. All of them have been there for over a month. HE actually is a pretty good car/truck mechanic but he could not keep busy just doing them. So he runs in any auto work first and lets the tractors set.

HE just did an "overhaul" on local guy's JD 4020. The guy is running all over bragging about how he got his tractor overhauled for $500 labor. Here is what he got done. They removed the cylinder head and oil pan. They put in new after market sleeves and pistons. No new bearings as the old ones "LOOKED" good and no head work. He just put the head back on as-is. What a "quality" job. LMAO As soon as that guy works that JD 4020 much it is going to suck oil around the old valve guides like a sieve. The tractor had over 8000 hours on it and was no cream puff either. Going to be fun seeing how much the guy brags then.

Some people want a "fine wine" job on busch lite prices! As a Electrical Contractor.....I see the same things.....people are trying to save cash, so they hire a less than skilled person to do work.....then want me to fix the mess when it falls apart.....but for the same labor rate as the first guy......

I don't know what it is, but there's been guys like this around for as long as I can recall, you probably recall even longer.

At the end of the '09 season I was running my neighbors 4440, with his late model '08 JD Disc mower on 2nd cut, as a side note, I was really impressed with the mower, he showed me how to reverse and put new blades on it, darned chuck mounds on first cut always bugger em up, and you can usually see or remember them on 2nd.

Back to the 4440, something was up with the motor, I could not really hear or detect a problem, but as soon as this field was finished, it was sidlined, time for an engine overhaul, one of the local retired tractor mechanics in town, helped him sort it out, so then he's checking around, most expensive, but highest quality work is the shop within a 1/4 mile of the farm, no way he'd pay that for the most part. He got a few different quotes and ended up shipping it 60 miles west, not sure if they were Mennonites, Amish or some similar denomination or fraternal order, but it was something like that, their price was about as good as it gets until you get into cob job work, they did the motor, apparently clutch checked out, might have been recent, they also did some work on the cab, had some rusted out fenders, all in all, it came back done right and proved itself in the field. I think he got quoted from the local JD conglomerate, and they are, well somewhat reasonable, but maybe not the most popular for some, he did deal with them quite a bit, but decided for the price, the outfit further away was the best deal. I never got to run it after, but he told me what a difference afterward.

You know, not being familiar with that particular transmission, what is it officially called? Its the one with the letters and number ranges, that you can upshift or if I recall downshift like B1 - B2 without clutching. It seems like a hybrid of a powershift. When it had duals and I was using a 17' heavy disc on it, I was really careful until I understood and got the feel for that transmission, I actually got moving in the right gear/range before letting that big ole disc down, as I was not sure how in heck I would start off with it in the ground, what gear and range to use, all new to me, but it sure was interesting to learn the 4440, I used it on the gravity wagon during the oats harvest to, and it was also on the NH 315 baler, it used to see a lot of action from what I recall.

My BIL is one of those guys always trying to save a buck. The summer after I retired from the Army I was at his place. They had the combine torn apart. A paddle chain broke and took a shaft out. BIL had to buy a new shaft at 500 bucks. I saw the chain on the ground and told him he needed to replace it. He told me they wanted about 400 bucks for a new one and he was just going to fix the old one. They got it back running and 4 hours later the chain broke again and took the new shaft out. He's done that with engines too. 826 IH, shop told him when they rebuilt it the injector pump needed to be rebuilt. He didn't want to spend the money. About 100 hours into the rebuild something in the pump let got and over sped the engine. 5K rebuild down the toilet. He just went though this again on another tractor. Had the engine gone through this time paying for a rebuilt pump. Didn't want to pay for new seas on the front of the tranny while it was split. Less than 100 hours the thing looks like the Exxon Valdez and tranny oil gushing out of the bell housing. He never learns it seems. My nephew is farming with him now and is trying to do it right.

Rick

Quad-Range. Half Synchro, half power-shift.

Thats what you call it, was trying to remember, been 3 years since I've run it, seemed to work very well in the conditions I ran it. There were stickers or placards in the cab that kind of explained it or when to clutch as I recall. I did not want to mis shift or do something wrong, seemed to get the hang of it in no time though.

I know what you mean about going behind others as I get called to do that many times. Awhile back I had a big outfit call me and asked about changing a hydraulic pump on their loader. Seems they had had one guy come in and look at it and told them it was one thing, then had the dealership come in and tell them it was the pump. Funny thing is, based on what they told me, neither the independent or the dealership guy either one actually put a guage or flow meter on the machine. All they did was watch it, listen to it, make a wild guess as to the cause, and then quote an over the top price to repair it.

I guess they thought I would do it on the cheap for them as I have always tried to charge a fair price for my work. Thing is the company was notoriously hard to get your money from to start with so they already had one strike against them. Then when they tell me they don't want to pay for me to hook up any equipment to actually test and verify the true cause of the problem, and just wanted me to change the pump for them, I politely told them it wasn't going to happen that way. I don't mind working behind others in some instances but something like this was a nightmare waiting to happen, and as bad as things were at the time I'd rather set home and not make any money as I had get into a situartion with the potential to cost me money when I don't get paid because someone else misdiagnosed a problem.

I've been to the school of hard knocks on this one, and my wife will tell you I can be a slow learner sometimes. I've fallen for the trick a couple times, local guy who seems to be hard up. After my last time over the barrel I learned that if a mechanic is slow it's cause they aren't much of a mechanic. A good man with a good reputation is worth the extra money every time. Same goes for that bs of shipping a tractor 60 miles when there's a man a 1/4 mile a way who charges a few bucks more. I bet when he's really in a pinch sometime he'll regret not supporting his neighbor, allowing that the man is a good mechanic.

(quoted from post at 18:49:27 02/13/13) My BIL is one of those guys always trying to save a buck. The summer after I retired from the Army I was at his place. They had the combine torn apart. A paddle chain broke and took a shaft out. BIL had to buy a new shaft at 500 bucks. I saw the chain on the ground and told him he needed to replace it. He told me they wanted about 400 bucks for a new one and he was just going to fix the old one. They got it back running and 4 hours later the chain broke again and took the new shaft out. Rick

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I've learned over the years to trust what I'm told from experienced mechanics, at least those that I know do good work. I had a shaft seize up on a manure spreader and it also booger-ed up the gear, so hauled it over to the guy I got it from new. He replaced the shaft and gear and also said the chain of the apron needed replaced. He said it would be about the same to get a new complete one as it would be to knock all the bars off and rivet them back on a new chain. I told him after 10 yrs that was probably right and go ahead and get a whole new one. I have had to replace broken links, after unloading it by hand, in 20 degree weather... didn't want to do that again. It was $800 but he could save me the freight if I could wait until he got a truckload shipment from the factory. Not being in heavy use then I waited. So, for about $1,200 total I have a like new spreader again and won't worry about busting an apron chain. Cost of these spreaders has gone up from a little over $4,000 then to now over $6,000 so I consider it dollars well spent.

Sign at local repair shop

We have 3 types of service, you choose which 2 you want
1) good
2) fast
3) Cheap
If you want it good & fast it won't be cheap
If you want it good & cheap it won't be fast
If you want it fast & cheap it won't be good

I would tend to agree, but this diesel shop, which I can see from my kitchen window, has always done excellent work, has a lot of fleet customers and smaller outfits, is absolutely high priced, thats just how it is with him, take it or leave it he don't care. I know their work as many trucks I have driven came out of his shop, complete overhauls, trans overhaul, and all sorts of repairs and maintenance.

You have to remember, this farmer did not maintain his success by not being savvy about where he spends his money. He turned down another shop that has done most of the work on his old DM Mack sileage body truck, which has been replaced by a much newer R Model. I've heard of the outfit before, that did the job on the 4440, but don't know much about them.

Having been in the construction business, and involved with over 59 high dollar commercial and residential projects (early in my career) to the tune of hundreds of millions, public and private well over $500 Million in value, I know absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt that the lowest bidder is not always and often times not the best bid. By the same token, I also know that some bids are way over on price, to the point of greed.

In this situation he was smart, the tractor was taken off line before it had a catastrophic failure, most of the crops and field work was done so the timing was good to shop, by the same token, he's not a cheapskate, though some might think it, he knows well enough to never have work done by a guy like JD Seller describes, I think the price may have been reasonably less, well worth shipping out, but not a lowball price for questionable work, the motor was done right, and it did not sit there for months, it was done in a timely fashion. In a pinch he would deal with this guy, I used to bring his commercial truck their for inspection, problem is it always seemed he needed a high priced repair, take it to the other truck/diesel shop, not so. Maybe your profits are better, his were always marginal and provided a decent paycheck, but nothing more. He kept and maintained most of his equipment in field ready condition, preventative maintenance and similar was always done, sometimes intervals stretched like any farmer when they get busy, but nonetheless, relatively well kept and usually under a roof. I've heard some say he had the first dollar he ever made, and have heard it said to his face by the owner of the local NH dealer, and I always told him, don't listen to that crap, none of their business what you have and what you do to keep it, farming is most certainly a very risky business, he's been at it for 60 years in the same location, not to many others can say the same.

Oats that have been through the horse always cost less!!!

tell me what makes you think that you need to grind the flywheel on a jd wet clutch there no ware surfice on the flywheel on JD wet clutch if you dont know that i don:t think you know what you are talking about

I thought the quad-range was the full manual, and the synchro-quad was the semi-powershift. Do know the powerquad is full powershift 1-4.

GOOD "catch", Kent, and absolutely CORRECT for a 4440 quad range/wet clutch! He sure put his foot in his mouth THAT time! The flywheel just carries the self-contained wet clutch assembly, which has it"s own unlined plates... there"s NO frictional contact with or wearing of the flywheel. There ARE 3 square "pins" pressed into the flywheel that CAN show some wear, though!

Oddly enough though, if the tractor a powershift transmission, the rear surface of the flywheel WOULD be used as a friction/wear surface by the "torque limiter", a lined friction disc and pressure plate, albeit with NO release fingers or TO bearing.

He also believes 4620 SCV"s have "Spools"!
Ive got spools in my SCVs

Well Kent I have done more of these than I could begin to count.

You are correct in that the clutch plate does not run directly on the flywheel. The wear/separator (#10 & #3 ) plates do run on the drive pins(#9). The tractor in question was ran long past the time it should have be rebuilt. The pins are shot. The separator plates and the clutch plates are shot as well. I do not see how they could still be flat when they where ran this long while slipping. This mechanic is just trying to only put new clutch disks back in it, nothing else.

Now what I meant by having the flywheel machined. ( I did use the wrong term when I wrote re-surfaced. Sorry about that if it caused confusion. I often think faster than I can type or vise versa) We do have the total stand height machined down on the early 30 and 40 series JD flywheels. There was a service bulletin in the early 1980s on this. The total dimension is about .030 shorter than it would have been from the factory. Waterloo factory DTAC told us to do this years ago to increase the clamping pressure put on the clutch plates. This will make the clutch plates last longer.

The local machine shop has the exact dimension it needs to be. They have been doing them for years.


The point of the post was that the cheaper mechanic is going to cut corners and do an inferior job.

Thanks for pointing out my decription error. Other may have been confused as well. I often have trouble getting my thoughts on paper so to speak.

Well "BOB" I will get to you now. I have already explained what I was trying to say in this post to Kent. So you can just go there and read it.

Now for the Selective control valve issue with you.

Part #16 is called a "VALVE" in the parts description. So BOB you are correct in that is what they are called by JD in the parts catalog.
There are four valves required for each SCV valve. DID that not sound kind of confusing to you???????? valves in the valve?????

Also in some of the old training manuals/classes the term spool valve was used instead of just valve. Also the head mechanic where I first worked always called them "SPOOLS". He taught me a heck of a lot of what I know about working on JD equipment. HE WAS NOT AN ENGLISH MAJOR!!!! He was one heck of a good old school mechanic.

I also bet that the majority of the guys with JD knowledge, that read my post knew exactly what I was talking about.

So "BOB" when I want my posts edited by someone I will call you. Until that time BUTT OUT !!! AND get a LIFE!!!!!

ALSO "BOB the tractor in question is a JD 4320 not a 4620. So Please get your facts straight.


I also wonder if you are a two cylinder club member!!!!

You sure sound like one!!!!!

I've worked on alot of hydraulic systems and about everyone I know would call that a spool guess maybe thats an old term.