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ot - 2012 Census of Ag reporting ???

N

northvale-PA

Member
Here is a question, we received the census of Ag reporting form. It says response is required by law(Title 7 US Code) We are not enrolled in any programs, nor receive any type payment. So, what rule requires me to tell Uncle S what I do? And, there is no phone number to call and ask.
 
There've been two posts about this on the Using Your Tractor forum. One's still up,the other got so heated it got poofed.
It's just the law that you have to fill out the ag census every five years. You can just pay the $100 fine if you prefer. Jon Phipps on US Farm Report says he's going to pay the fine. Not because he's opposed to giving the information,but because of how long it going to take to compile the information. It's not going to be published until February or 2014.

I filled mine out and still might end up paying the fine. I went through all the acerage,yield and income parts,but when they got in to things as personal as the value of my equipment,I wrote "I'm not going any farther" across it and sent it back. We'll see what happens.
 
I hope you also have no intention of accepting any type of assistance from the government, including SS and medicare!
 
I see the census as being far too comprehensive and intrusive. A big farmer with ten or twelve landlords will just throw in some general figures or will throw his hands up and pay the fine. If a farmer doesn't have readily available and accurate records it's an inaccurate nightmare. I do have all of my records on the computer so I could bring them up and minimize again as I needed but it still took two hours. I have even less faith in our government reports than I did in the past if this is the way they come up with their figures. Jim
 
Here comes the tin foil hat crowd again.....

There's NOTHING they want to know that can be used against you. It's to help the helpless government figure out exactly what an "average farm" in America is in order to set ag policy. Most people whine about how the government doesn't seem to understand what the average farmer is up against, then turns right around and does everything they can to make the situation as confused as possible.

I didn't realize just how bad a problem paranoid schizophrenia has become until this topic came up.
 

I filled my AG report out but I saw nowhere in it stated "I had to tell the truth,the whole truth and nothing but the truth"!!!!! So i filled it out that the best that "Oldtimers" would allow :wink:
 
So fill in the parts your comfortable with; name, address, the type of farming, etc. BUT I would not/will not fill in the yield or income--that is none of their business.
Haven't asked for any $ meny yet.
 
If you don't fill it out they send you a shorter form,and if that doesn't work they call you or in my dads case they sent someone to his house to take the info.
 
My only issue with the ag census is why do we as farmers (business owners) have to fill one out when other business owners do not? Is there a census for electricians/plumpers/builders? Does Walmart have to do one telling the Government how many sock/rolls of toiletpaper it sold??

I know we get stuff from the Government, but like all Government required surveys, but the time they release the results everything has changed anyway...
 
Does the government have a department of plumbing that manipulates plumbing prices?

Does the government have a department of toilet paper?

But they DO have a department of agriculture, and it's never going to get it's act together with skewed or false information.
 
For the life of me I do not understand the opposition but guess to each his own. 4400 acres in Two states and lease from three different government agencies. Took less than and hour to give them a pretty good ideal of what we did.
Again no problem because the information is going to one place and no other use.
 
I just filled in the form at work, an engineering company

the face page has a log in name and password, if you have your sales and payroll tax returns handy it takes about 10 minutes

if you don't file it, they will either send somebody around for the info or get nasty

welcome to the new america, I don't like it any more than you do, GD socialists.......
 
They'd better bring an appraiser if they want to know what my equipment's worth. I'm not guessing at it then swearing that the information is accurate.
I'll just pay the $100 if I have to.
 
I'm currently working at the Census Bureau, and the section I'm in is doing what they call "open and sort" of the Ag Census forms.

What goes into the pile called a "good report"? Any report that doesn't have a name or address change, or a partnership change, marked on the front page; that came in with only one report in the mailing envelope; that doesn't have multiple counties listed on page 2, or a different county than what's under the bar code on the front page; that doesn't have other correspondence, or threatening correspondence, either written on the report or sent with the report; and that has some numbers written in Sections 5 through 20.

And at the time we were preparing the Ag Census, we were also printing to mail an Economic Census, which was sent to other businesses such as restaurants, plumbers, bait houses and fishing equipment sellers, auto parts stores, and just about every other type of retail business you could imagine. So don't get the idea that "only" the farmers got a survey to fill out, or that farmers are being "picked on."

Now, I'm not going to tell you HOW to fill out your forms...BUT...the folks in "open and sort" don't even look at the sections on income or machinery or any of that. We're ONLY concerned with what county's listed in Section 1, and whether there ARE numbers in Sections 5 through 20 or not. Maybe the folks in data entry deal with the rest of that. But each of us handles so many forms a day that your particular information remains confidential, because there's no way we could POSSIBLY remember all we see, even from one person's forms. I saw the name of a family friend on one form I opened; can't for the life of me remember how many acres he told the government he farmed, or anything else on that form...other than the fact that I know the man, and I know he sent in his form. And Title 13 says that any information I see is confidential, so I can't even tell my wife that this family friend's form passed through my hands, so I just keep it to myself.
 
Kinda funny that if they don't pass on any of the information, why do I all of a sudden get junk mail on the different crops I raise?
This is just a way of keeping a multitude of government people employed!!
 
I asked pretty much the same question a week or so ago but it went bye bye. If you look close there is in fact an 800 number in it some place I know that because I called and asked questions. I to agree that is no reason the Gov should want o know what I do since I only hobby farm and make no real $$ doing so.
Now then please guys no starting an argument just because you do not agree with my opinion. You know I do have the right to have my opinion and you have no right to tell me I do not. So no wars please
 
I have 3 horses,put up 900 small square bales and i got a form also. I figure after they look at the numbers i gave them they will probably either give me some new tractors or want me to head the Dept.of ag.Lots of money went out and not much came in. I have no idea why i got a form!
 
I have never received or applied for a dime. I don't want to draw attention to myself. Maybe end up with an Audit or something stupid like that I don't want to have to deal with. I just filled it out and guessed the money and financial part on the low side. It took about 30 minutes. I can't see where my Mickey Mouse farming operation would mean anything to them anyway.
 
I haven't gotten the ag census yet even though I do own farm land. But as a small business owner, I have to fill out monthly sales and excise tax forms for the state. They want to know your income for the month and you pay accordingly. Hopefully you collected enough from your customer to cover it. And if you miss one payment they will fine you and send someone to audit your books. Annually I have to fill out an insurance audit. They want to know who all my subcontractors are, their insurance carrier and amount of insurance they have, the amount I paid to them and the type of work they did. Plus they want to know my income, how many employees I have and what I pay them. All just so they can adjust their rates for my liability policy upon renewal. At the end of the year, I file 1099's with the government listing what I paid to each sub and I have to get their social security numbers or federal tax id numbers if they are not incorporated. We all have paper work we don't like to do but have to in order to stay in business.
 
I have filled them out for years. So what's the big deal? Without knowledge ignorance exist. Paranoia runs rampant for some. The gathered information is used to help our agriculture community plan for the future.
 
Don't get paranoid, it is just a census they do ever so often. Fill it out and if you don't farm, write on it that you don't farm. I got two of them when I farmed, I couldn't get any of their programs or any money out of them either.
 
Got two of the durn things. One specifically about sheep and goats, the second a general form covering 'bout everythihg farming.

The sheep/goat one asked about numbers as of January 1st. On January 3rd before 8:00am they were on the phone hounding me for the report. Hardly flipped the calendar for the new year!

Haven't had the courage to waste a Sunday afternoon on the second one. Wonder just how accurate they expect me to be.
 
So I'm just curious about consistency. Those of you who've expressed your opinions about this,how do you feel about mandatory premises I.D. and animal I.D.?

It's been mandatory in Michigan for years and it hasn't been the end of the world. Yes,even the Amish and Mennonites comply with electronic RFID.
 

You need to fill it out so that they can figure out which CSA offices to shut down. My little bit won't amount to anything except how I am losing money. I spent only about twenty minutes on it filling in just rough figures.
 
What I object to is the 'mandatory' completion aspect of it. What happened to a persons right to privacy in their personal affairs?
 
Because there is no US Dept. of Walmart. These figures give a demographic of how ag is doing. And you can't figure out profit without knowing what the inputs are. Or, if small farmers really are struggling. Or how many of us are really small and how many are BFO's. So, this gives them an idea.
 
They're an added hassle without a doubt. That said, in todays world, they're a fact of life and a necessity. There are people who wish we were back in the 19th century, where we didn't have the "global market" we now have. Fact is, we won't ever be like we were 100 or 150 years ago. If we want to be competitive around the globe, we need built in safety. And why not be safe within our own borders.

Times change. Not saying they always change for the better, not saying they change for the worse, but most things that change never return to the old days/old ways. We either adapt to the changes or we get swallowed up and lost in them. Either accept change and deal with it, or go down kicking and screaming when they run roughshod over you. It is what it is....like it or not. Successful people deal with reality and go forward rather than whine about the injustice's they perceive.
 
I'm not wanting to start any arguments here, but the government accepted my payments for SS for 50 years so I think they could give some of it back.
I see this money as mine and not the government"s. WaltMo
 
I have 20 acres, no livestock right now, and other than my house garden, I don"t plant anything. I do selectively spray some weeds, but that could not amount to more than and acre or two. I do brush hog about 5 acres to keep the brush from taking over the open area and to maybe cut down on the fire danger. But the rest of the property is mostly pine trees. I have not filed a Form F for at least 20 years. I don"t employ anyone to help me work on my property. But I do live in an area that used to be farms and ranches before it was subdivided into 5, 10 and a few larger plots. I suppose I could make some hay if I felt like it.

I filled out the census of Ag because they wrote that it was mandatory, but almost all the questions were answered no or 0. It probably took me over half an hour to complete it, which did not please me at all!

I wrote on the form that I thought it was STUPID to waste my time and the government"s time considering the facts that I am not really farming, made no profits (what I did cost me a few hundred dollars, and I pay high property taxes), have no livestock, and don"t really plan to try to farm any of my property next year. I suggested that they have a box right at the start of the form that says NOT FARMING, so I could check that and be done with it.

I live on a corner of the ranch I grew up on. My parents subdivided the ranch in the 70"s, and now there are at least 10 families living on the resulting acreages. When I was a kid, we raised hay, had up to about 50 head of cattle, milked up to 5 cows by hand all the time and had hogs and chickens. Now I don"t think there are any cattle on the former ranch, but there may be a few horses. I don"t think they even cut the hayland any more.

I call it "rapidly becoming suburbia", with a little disdain. But my parents had a wonderful retirement, and traveled the world.

I still wonder what would have happened if I just tossed the form in the garbage...maybe I will next year!
 
It may be "none of their business," but if you have nothing to hide, where's the harm? You already are required by law to send in income tax returns...or do some farmers also refuse to file them, too, because it's "none of their business"??
 
I filled the thing out, doesn't take long when you only have 12 acres and no livestock. Besides I probably saved the job of some $100,000 a year bureaucrat in Washington that made a report to our congress about the conditions of American Agriculture based on the information I sent him. And then I'll complain about the stupidity of our elected officials! Oh Well!!
 
There is no paranoia involved. It's the dislike of gov't intrusion and wasting my time. I don't want, take or believe in subsidies of any kind, I don't want the gov'ts "help" on anything, I don't want the gov't directing me or limiting anything I wish to do with my land I pay taxes on. I don't want SS or Medicare either. I worked and prepared for my older years, I have a pension and health insurance. I don't want the gov't mucking about in any of my affairs be it farming, guns, food, water, housing or taxes. IOW, I want the gov't to leave me alone and get the heck out of my way! Gov't regulations are part of the reasons we're having such a tough time getting our church built, why many of my neighbors are having a tough time making ends meet and why things keep getting more and more expensive for all of us.

Until I break a law or mess with someone elses property or somehow affect them, gov't has no right or reason to bother me at all.
 
So you don't think you owe a red cent to the government for things like interstate highways, national defense, police protection, ect?

You don't think federal ag policy effects what you sell? More of what we produce is exported than what is used within our borders. Without foreign trade (and the laws that effect such) we wouldn't get 1/3rd of what we do for what we raise. US farmers would ALL be bankrupt.

And whether you like it, understand it, or believe in it, the government isn't all about you and specifically what YOU want. It's "big picture" and supposedly all about everyone and the best interest's of all concerned.

Just because you don't/can't/won't understand the concept, that doesn't mean it's wrong. It just means you don't/can't/won't understand it....
 
(quoted from post at 09:33:30 01/13/13) My only issue with the ag census is why do we as farmers (business owners) have to fill one out when other business owners do not? Is there a census for electricians/plumpers/builders? Does Walmart have to do one telling the Government how many sock/rolls of toiletpaper it sold??

I know we get stuff from the Government, but like all Government required surveys, but the time they release the results everything has changed anyway...
Click to expand...

What does a plumper do anyway? Sounds like it could be interesting.
 
(quoted from post at 05:42:59 01/14/13) There is no paranoia involved. It's the dislike of gov't intrusion and wasting my time. I don't want, take or believe in subsidies of any kind, I don't want the gov'ts "help" on anything, I don't want the gov't directing me or limiting anything I wish to do with my land I pay taxes on. I don't want SS or Medicare either. I worked and prepared for my older years, I have a pension and health insurance. I don't want the gov't mucking about in any of my affairs be it farming, guns, food, water, housing or taxes. IOW, I want the gov't to leave me alone and get the heck out of my way! Gov't regulations are part of the reasons we're having such a tough time getting our church built, why many of my neighbors are having a tough time making ends meet and why things keep getting more and more expensive for all of us.

Until I break a law or mess with someone elses property or somehow affect them, gov't has no right or reason to bother me at all.
Click to expand...

Brett, What denomination of church?
 
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