Another estate question

My wife in I are in our early 30's and in good health. We have a 6 year old and a 3 year old. We have a farm and I farm full time, my wife works off the farm. It's small compared to what "real" farmers have - slightly less than 400 acres and just under 10,000 organic laying hens. We only just started farming, so about half of it's value (considering $4500 and acre) is our debt load. My life insurance would make it free and clear.

I know it's really stupid, but we have not made a will. We have not asked anyone to care for our children if something happens. I want to make sure my dad does not get my kids and the farm (him and I have issues I'd prefer not to get into here). Frankly, my Mom would be good at it, but she'll be 65 when my oldest graduates and 68 when my youngest does. I'd prefer they are raised by someone younger. My wife is an only child and neither of her parents are suitable to raise our children. I have a sister that lives 18 hours away with her girlfriend and I think she may be suitable, but I'd prefer the kids stay where they are if something happens to us. I've been thinking alot about this and I think I want to name a very good friend of mine as the guardian of our children. I asked him and his wife (they have an 8 month old baby as well) tonight and they said they are willing.

Obviously, it'd be far better if nothing happens, but if something does, I want to make it as easy on all involved as possible.

What sort of agreements do any of you have in this situation? We're gonna get a lawyer and make it as bulletproof as possible, but I'd like to get some ideas before we spend money...

My son and his wife have a will that states the "line of succession" concerning care of their daughter should both of them die. My daughter-in-law is a legal assistant (can't think of the proper title) and worked for the attorney who drew up their will. They gave all of us who would be in this "line" a copy of their will. You may need a second choice in case the very worst happens. I think son and wife have four successive choices. HTH

I remember when my wife and I did our first wills. If one of you would die you probably leave everything to the other. Lawyer might actually write two wills - one for you and one for wife leaving everything to each other. The tricky part is if both of you would die. Then you would need to name who takes care of the kids. In our case it was her parents. Both were good, but my parents were still raising kids, mom worked and were older than my inlaws. Then the will would probably establish somekind of trust if both parents should die. The named guardians would be given access to the trust for the benefit of the children. The guardians may or maynot be the actual trustee. Remaining funds would then be available at some certain established age like 18 or 24. Part of estate planning is making sure all property is named or held correctly for your situation - type of ownership. That includes land, home if not on the farm, vehicles, checking and savings acounts.

Andy,
Wife and I both put together Living Trusts when we were 29 and 31. Even though you have debt I believe you should have a will or trust.

The succession is my sister will handle the money and the kids. Next would be wifes parents, then my parents.

Nothing wrong with your friend raising your kids, but will you always be friends, what if you have a falling out over something stupid, I say that because I have seen it amongst some of my friends.

Dont be afraid of your parents raising your kids, they raised you right? Little joke there. Seriously, I do see a lot of grandparents when I am up at school or coaching. They will do fine, maybe they are a little out of touch with current events but sometimes thats a good thing.

My two cents.

Someone to determine who will raise the children, someone to distribute money (needed)until children reach approciate age to decide what they want to do with the farm.

You're a wise man at an early age.
Follow your thoughts on having an attorney make sure it's all legal.
I can't speak to your family members, but I do know they can contest a will.
My will has succession built in as well. Nature of the beast.
Rick has a point on friends too. Blood is thicker than water.
Good on ya for planning for the worst, but from the sounds, expect the best!

You do have a will- unfortunately, your State wrote it! Unless you and mrs write one, the State dictates distribution of your assets. You talk about 400 acres of land...with today's land prices, if you have 200 acres or more, you have an estate problem, given the Federal rules. Worse after New Year's! We set up a revocable trust last year, says how the farm succession works....couple grand to set it up, saves the 6 kids way more in tax issues when we are gone.

Get a lawyer and get your wishes laid out legally.

After the nightmare of James" dad"s estate (still not over and its been 5 yrs), make sure money is put in a trust outside of the will.

We learned some hard lessons. All our funds, bonds, etc., are POD(payable on death), joint accounts with right of survivorship, etc. That means, if I die all the "money" immediately belongs to James and is not part of the estate. If James dies, it immediately goes to me.

Most people try to break wills to get their hands on money, not actual property. If there"s no money to be had, then no reason to break the will. Most aren"t interested in the hassle of disposing of real property and physical assets.

Absolutely get a lawyer.

My wife and I were given children from two diffrent couples. If they were to die. One was friends, and the other was family. We were honered! Luckly were not needed.

You ought not to be talking about this on a
worldwide forum.
This is a Highly personal subject. I'll bet none of
these people you mention would want their laundry
hung out in public.
I wish you both all the best.
good luck
Kenny

As been mentioned "get a lawyer". Hal

(quoted from post at 22:08:50 12/20/12) You ought not to be talking about this on a
worldwide forum.
This is a Highly personal subject. I'll bet none of
these people you mention would want their laundry
hung out in public.
I wish you both all the best.
good luck
Kenny

Click to expand...

I deliberately kept the details vague for that very reason.

I'm just looking for general ideas on how to make it fair and clear for all involved. My desire is to give my kids the opportunity to farm. We all know very well that a young person has ZERO chance at starting farming without help from someone. A young person has to attach themselves to someone engaged in farming or someone with a LOT of money these days. I'm sure none of you can name someone who just jumped in with no assets, no land, no connections in the past 15 years. My break came from buying this farm at a reduced rate from my wife's dad after having been engaged in farming all my life, either growing up on one or working for other farmers. Were I a kid who grew up in town with few contacts engaged in agriculture, I would not be farming today. I want the farm to be available to either of my children when they reach the age of 18. Maybe they'll sell it at that point and run with the money, maybe they'll grow to love agriculture and farm together, maybe one will take it and buy the other out. I won't know, but the opportunity will be there.

But, I also don't want to make a friend into an indentured servant to my children. I hope that he'd take them and raise them as his own. I realize that friendships can fade away or collapse, but we've been friends since grade school and I am his child's godparent. We never named godparents. Blood may be thicker than water, but blood isn't really serving as a very good binder in my family. The will can always be modified if a falling-out ever happens.

Thanks for the good advice so far. I think I'll ask my wife how our accounts are arranged - if we're each other's POD. On a side note, we celebrated 10 years last month. She's a wonderful woman.

Just 2 quick points of advivce. first, get a lawyer that specalizes in estate planing. He will know how to avoid the most taxes and make it hard for outsiders to challenge. and second, when you decide how you want it set up, do it without worrying about ruffling anyones feathers. It's your estate, set it up as you see fit and apologise to no one.

Definitely get an Estate Lawyer, and ask him / her
about setting up a "Living Trust" .

We had the same situation 25 years ago when our children were little.

We got a good estate attny to draw up the wills and trusts to make it happen...in the event of our deaths.

I also suggest you refer in the will to a letter of details in your safe deposit box, there you can lay out more details of your wishes...ie: education expectations, cars, allowances, part time jobs....things that you see as important to raising your chidren...as a guideline for the guardians.

Be sure to compensate the guardians,....nicer house, vacations with the kids etc..some reward for all the hard work.

as others have said - get a lawyer - it's the ONLY way when you're talking about custody of children.

Courts heavily favor family in cases like that - and you'd want something solid to keep your wishes or "gentleman's agreements" from being overturned.

Im a semi retired country lawyer here in Indiana who practices in areas of estate planning and settlement and heres my best professional advice:

CONSULT WITH A LOCAL EXPERIENCED PROFESSIONAL ESTATE PLANNING ATTORNEY and dont make any decisions based on anything offered here, lay or professional.

One reason is each case is different and likely different then any exact situation offered by the experiences of persons here EVERY CASE IS DIFFERENT........What may have been perfect for someone here may NOT be perfect in your situation.........The laws in your state are likely different then the laws of other states WELL DUHHHHHHHHHH

When I advise a client in these cases I FIRST learn their exact situation and their exact needs and dersires and wishes I SECOND thoroughly research the law I THIRD come up with different plans and ideas and suggestions AND ONLY AFTER ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL THAT CAN I MAKE A PROFESSIONAL FINAL RECOMMENDATION

See why you cant get this answered here????

Some of the estate planning tools may involve Trust and Wills and Powers of Attorney and Healthcare Appointments and Living Wills and Joint ownership with survivorship and Life Estates etc etc etc etc EACH CASE IS DIFFERENT THERES NO ONE SIZE FITS ALL PROFESSIONAL ANSWER HERE, SORRY.

Where a Trust may have been the ideal method for one party does NOT mean the estste plan that party used (and they may swear by amd love it here and thats fine) it may NOT be thay way for you to go.......

So if youre serious about all this and want the best estate plan for YOU NOT SOMEONE HERE

CONSULT WITH A LOCAL COMPETENT TRAINED EXPERIENCED PROFESSIONAL ESTATE PLANNING ATTORNEY and NOT Billy Bob or know it all brother in law Bubba

It would be malpractice to offer an answer here prior to a thorough interview and study and research so I'm NOT touching this lol, Hopefully you now understand why

If you want to go to a bookstore and the internet or library and find some forms and do it yourself, its your property and your money and your risk and your choice and thats another alternative to consider. Many people have done that, some of it turns out well other times maybe not. If you choose that route and take some time and study and do a good job, it may be just fine, there a lot of good free info out there....

Best wishes, God bless the USA and yall here

Merry CHRISTmas and as bad as the self proclaimed all knowing all wise elite politically correct abundant progressives may detest it ITS ALSO A FEDERAL HOLIDAY

John T BSEE, JD Country Lawyer

Rocky, Everyone says "get an Attorney", "Get and Attorney" and they are right BUT.....

You have to decide what you want to do before you go see the attorney. You don't want the attorneys ideas and plans.....you want your ideas and plans made legal by the attorney.

Too many people go to an attorney first and some even let the attorney decide what to do ...rather than telling the attorney and then let him assess and advise if it is logical, and legal.

Best Wishes - -believe you've already gotten some great advice here.

We made the same decision years ago to have a couple of friends be the legal guardians of our kids, backed up by another set of friends, and trust administered by our attorney (his partner administered out wills).

But, I was real sure several folks on both sides of the families would have been really PO'ed/hurt if they had known they weren't going to be caring for our kids - - so, I didn't announce it to all the relatives.

I did ask both couples that we were going to trust our kids and estate with, and I did tell one brother that I trusted but knew he couldn't/wouldn't be in a position to take the kids - -that way several would be able to testify that these were my wife and my final wishes.

You mentioned letting your kids have control at 18 - - suggest revising that up to 23-to-25years old.
It takes some of us a while to "grow a brain" after the teen years and the 21 year old partying era - -but, maybe your kids won't be that way.

Again, BEST WISHES!!
John