Used ether for the first time

Zachary Hoyt · Dec 12, 2012

Yesterday I parked the 300 Farmall by the woodshed and left it for three hours while I stacked the wood in the wagon and did some other stuff. When I came back it wouldn't start, and again today it wouldn't quite, but it would fire occasionally. This afternoon I got the coolant heater hooked up to it, but with the wind blowing and it being outside the heater couldn't do a lot for it. I remembered that I had gotten a can of starting fluid in a box lot at an auction a while ago so I went and found that on the chemicals shelf in the shed and followed the directions on the can and the tractor started right up beautifully and I was able to drive it over to the shed and put it away. I know ether is very destructive to diesel engines and I am wondering how bad of a thing I did by using it on this gas engine. I don't intend to make a habit of it, but I was glad to get the tractor put away this time.
Zach

Mike (WA) · Dec 12, 2012

The evils of ether are considerably overstated by many. Yes, if you spray it for 10 seconds, you may very well have some problems. But if used correctly (crank the engine, and while it is cranking, give it just a puff of ether), it won't have a deleterious effect. If you're doing it right, you'll never get through a whole can- it will lose its fizz when its still about half full, because you're using so little.

I started an Oliver 1550 diesel on ether for about 20 years. Sold it to a neighbor, who fixed the preheater, and he could start it without ether after that. So much for the "kiss of death" philosophy. And don't any of you bother to harass me about not fixing the pre-heater myself- its none of your business.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 12, 2012

Zachary, don't worry about a little blast on a well built American made motor, like your IH. The ether is only truly destructive to asian made diesels, that have real thin piston tops. Thing to do is to diagnose what caused the no-start. Back to basics, spark or fuel?

Royse · Dec 12, 2012

Probably didn't hurt your gas engine a bit Zach, specially if you didn't use too much.
You're not to use it on the new diesels, or any diesel with glow plugs.
I remember my uncle's old JD had an ether injection system on it though.

da.bees · Dec 12, 2012

I have used ether on everything from weedeaters to gasoline trucks and haven't witnessed damage to a gas engine. My understanding is that the risk with diesels is that the glow plug can ignite the ether while the cylinder is out of time.

armand tatro · Dec 12, 2012

A properly tuned gas emgine should never need ether to start it. Armand

Zachary Hoyt · Dec 12, 2012

Thanks, that's good to know. The can said to spray for 2-3
seconds down the air intake and then crank the engine, so I did two
seconds and it started and ran very easily, much to my relief.
Zach

Bob Bancroft · Dec 12, 2012

Not to worry. I had a tractor and two combines(all had the same diesel engine) that all had an electric ether injector built in. On anything but the warmest day, a cold engine needed a whiff of ether to start. As quickly and as briefly as you could push the button was all that was necessary, then you'ld poke it just enough to keep the engine running. There was none of the hammering and pounding you hear when someone uses too much. The important thing to do is only use what's necessary, especially with a diesel.

mazemeister · Dec 12, 2012

if you haven't seen damage yet (like parts flying) i'd say you didn't damage your 300 at all. those old gassers are low enough on the compression that the ether won't pop till the spark plug fires (which at cranking speed should be fully retarded), so it won't preignite.

you NEVER want to use ether on hot glow plugs.

the danger with ether in a diesel is that it will ignite much too early in the compression stroke (when normally there would be no fuel present) and cause damage.

my experience for the past 20 years or so is that in a direct injection engine, in small quantities (like 1/4 second shot), when the engine is getting tired, ether doesn't seem to cause any harm. not to say it can't!! but that it doesn't always.

Ray · Dec 12, 2012

Nothing wrong with ether,most companies recommend it.A lot of tractors have ether injectors.The problem you hear of with ether is the people that use it.You can't spray it like water.Spraying some in a gas engine hurts nothing.

Billy Shafer · Dec 12, 2012

I have been using ether for years. If it ran you did no damage. The problem with ether is when you use to much or on diesels with glow plugs. You can destroy an engine with it. All you need is a quick short blast.Never use with glow plugs. Because you can ignite the spray.

I only use it when batteries are weak or it is cold and I have to get the engine running.

NY 986 · Dec 12, 2012

I've only had to use it when a block heater fails or have to make an emergency start in the winter. Now if you are like a former boss I had years ago and empty a full can into a 5 hp Briggs...........

Bob Huntress · Dec 12, 2012

The new blends of gas are as bad for an engine as ether. I don"t recommend using it all the time, but, in a pinch, It is fine. I use it more for finding vacuum leaks on automotive engines, than I do for starting, however.

LJD · Dec 12, 2012

I've never witnessed a case where ether damaged a gas engine in farm equipment. I suspect the compression is so low, the extra pressure from the ether seems to be pretty much harmless. Can say what happens with a car that might have 9 to 1 compression. I've never seen it needed.

As to the claims about ether not hurting diesels?
I've seen plenty of diesels get ruined including many Deere 300-series that were direct-injected (NO glow plugs).

Anybody who claims otherwise I suspect never worked in a diesel repair shop in a cold-climate area.

Also about ether injection on factory equipped engines? Yes - and that injection system uses an injector orifice that limits overloading. Be it electric/solenoid injection or just a simple tube from the intake manifold - the factory installed units have limiting orifices.

My neighbor ruined the engine twice in one winter in his Deere 350. I'm the one that had to fix it twice and then told him "no more." A block heater would of saved him a lot of money. The first time he broke all his top rings and cracked one piston. The 2nd time -after being rebuilt he swore he'd use a block heater to start. Then one morning when it was below 0 out - his daughter got her car stuck in the barnyard. He needed his 350 in a hurry - and removed the air-cleaner cover and shot a bunch of ether in (again). This time he had two of the aftermarket pistons (Tisco) completely shatter to pieces. When I pulled the head there were two connecting rods with wrist pins - and no pistons. Just lots of pieces.

I've got an Allis Chalmers HD4 in my shop right now. The guy had a bad starter and weak batteries. His easy fix was to yank the air-cleaner bowl off and spray a lot of ether in there. He broke all the tops rings off of every piston. Still ran pretty good once hot but smoked and ate a lot of oil. And -impossible to start without a lot more ether.

LJD · Dec 12, 2012

One added comment. I suspect ether being sold today is not quite what it was a few years ago.

We used to use ether to seat tires on rims when they were stubborn. It works - or at least it used to work very well.

I just tried it last week with two different brands of starter fluid. What a joke! I don't know what they've done to the stuff -but it was useless for the task. Nothing like it used to be. NO bang for the buck.

JayinNY · Dec 12, 2012

I seen the same thing on a farm I worked on, some one used to much either to start a ford 5000 diesel, I gues that ruined it, it smoked like a tire fire when it was running!

LA in WI · Dec 12, 2012

Thru the years I have had old Lawn Boy mowers for a little trimming under spruce trees. When I get one out in the spring for their first work I pull the rope with full choke about 6 times. If no start I give them a shot of ether and they start right now on first pull. Sometimes I have to repeat this during the mowing season. I always tell wifey that those old motors "want to start" with ether. And those old 2 cycle motors just keep running fine. If I hurt the motors even a little bit, it"s better than a heart attack by pulling and pulling the starter rope.
LA in WI

MSD · Dec 12, 2012

Bought a JD 2020 diesel from a guy in Texas last summer. He said it started and ran good. He had it running when I got there and it ran good. I shut it off and tried to start it again. Wouldn't go so he told his kid to get the either. A little shot and it started right up. At 70 degrees I figured it should start without either. I had the injector pump rebuilt and now I can go out at 25 and it will fire right off without either. If it's right you don't need the stuff. It had an injection system on it at one time though so it must have been engineered to use it.

JK-NY · Dec 12, 2012

I noticed the same thing trying to set a tire on the bead this summer. I had an old can of ether I"d been using for quite a while. Ran it dry this summer and used a newer can and it would"nt do it. Luckily I found another old can of ether and it did the trick. I wondered if the new stuff was weaker , or maybe I just had a dud can.

Russ from MN · Dec 12, 2012

My Father was very cautious with ether, he told a story about a big one lunger running a sawmill back in the 30s, someone used too much ether and when it blew up part of the engine came flying right out of the engine house! We used it when necessary on our JDs, the newer ones had injectors but the R we just gave it a 1 sec shot in the intake. It's surprising how little it takes, and it's better than burning up a starter.

Dean · Dec 12, 2012

Agreed.

Starting fluid is not what it once was.

Dean

RodinNS · Dec 12, 2012

It's also particularly destructive to most Perkins engines if you use enough...

Rod

RodinNS · Dec 12, 2012

The Ace stuff in the red cans from KleenFlo is still pretty hot. NAPA stuff... not so much. I do find that both work effectively enough for blowing tires tho.... Just use more.

Rod

JD Seller · Dec 12, 2012

The percentage of either in starting fluid today is lower. Some states make you sign a usage statement for the higher percentage stuff. It seems that the meth makers use the higher percentage stuff to make meth with.

A word of caution to guys using either to inflate semi tires. IF the DOT check them with the tester and the air inside shows either residue you can be red flagged right there. They claim the either is hard on the tires.

Huskers86 · Dec 12, 2012

It's a little more spendy but Ma Deere still has the most potent around here anyway. It takes less to get things going and can easily "either lock" stuff.

BANDITFARMER · Dec 12, 2012

It sounds to me like its time for a good tune up or at least a set of good plugs. My old JD95 did the same thing, Got wires and plugs put in while waiting for the cap and button and points and condincer and she fired right up like a new one. Ran good but a pain to start at times before I did that. Bandit

Mike (WA) · Dec 13, 2012

2 or 3 seconds is far too much, in my opinion- I always used less than a second, with engine cranking at the time. If engine doesn't catch, rest it for a few seconds and try again. Better to use not enough, than too much.

Super Trucker · Dec 13, 2012

You are exactly right. The ether residue has a high expansion rate when heated. Did a experiment once ether bombed a tire,inflated it to 70psi. Drove 30min and checked the tire was pushing 110psi. I stopped useing it and bought a bead blaster.

JRSutton · Dec 13, 2012

Everything in moderation, as they say.

If it's for occasional cold starts - then no big deal. Remember it's ok to START with it -not RUN with it.

You just want the initial kick - you don't really want to be feeding the carb with it to keep the engine running till it warms up.

JMOR · Dec 13, 2012

(quoted from post at 23:39:39 12/12/12) The percentage of either in starting fluid today is lower. Some states make you sign a usage statement for the higher percentage stuff. It seems that the meth makers use the higher percentage stuff to make meth with.

A word of caution to guys using either to inflate semi tires. IF the DOT check them with the tester and the air inside shows either residue you can be red flagged right there. They claim the either is hard on the tires.

hey tell you that it isn't what it used to be by the label. Long ago it was labeled ETHER. Now (& for a long time), it is labeled STARTING FLUID.

RodinNS · Dec 13, 2012

Just the same... you can vent the air from the tire after the beads are seated... let the smoke clear, then reinflate.

Rod

Matt in Mich · Dec 13, 2012

Owners manual for my Case 1030 says you can use ether for cold starts. Just need to NOT use the manifold heater for 5-10minutes after you spray the ether.

Dalet · Dec 14, 2012

(quoted from post at 22:53:09 12/13/12) Owners manual for my Case 1030 says you can use ether for cold starts. Just need to NOT use the manifold heater for 5-10minutes after you spray the ether.

True,
The old farmtruck I have a 6.5l Chev pickup with glow plugs. I let the plugs go out, and wait about 3 min, give it a shot and it will start up. Replaced all the plugs and it won't fire no how. Tired old beast. Its fine when its above freezing, once it goes below, even plugged in it has a hard time cooperating.

Used ether for the first time

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Similar threads