OT/question for John T others

If someone (private person or persons) flies an unmanned aircraft (not a military size drone, but similar to remote controlled toy airplane) with a video camera mounted on it over your private property and takes pictures of you doing whatever:

1. Can you disable the flying object (as in shoot it down)?

2. If it lands on your property, can you keep it or does it have to be returned to the spyers?

3. Can you file charges on the person(s) who "spied" on you?

I'd just pretend I didn't see it.. don't directly look at it and when it flys away form you it would create a flight malfunction....Never saw it !

They can photograph anything that can be seen from the ground, air or other thing.
They cannot peer into windows doors ect.
Walt

Hello Nancy Howell,
That would tick me off also!
I CAN ANSWER TWO OUT OT THREE!
You can disable it while it is not looking, shoot its tail off!
Can you keep it if it lands on your property, YEAH! finders keepers!.
Guido.

The answer to that probably depends on if the government was doing it or a private person. Personally, I thought the "pigeon drone" was hilarious.

Tough call. I'd say you're entitled to your privacy.

In a similar situation, I, and others in my line of work inspecting real estate properties for insurance companies, frequently run into privacy fences by houses. A rather rigid policy says if we encounter a 6' wood or plastic privacy fence, we take a photo of the fence from eye level as the reason we did not inspect the back side of the house or get a photo of the rear of the house. We do not attempt to see what is on the other side of the fence.

One of my colleagues in another state, for whatever reason, held his camera above the level of the fence and took a photo of the back yard of the house. He just happened to get a beautiful photo of the homeowner's 14 year old daughter engaging in topless sunbathing. And she saw the camera.

Talk about the you-know-what hitting the fan!

I guess to answer your question, whoever owned the remote controlled device would have to justify their actions. And if the device disappeared, who could they complain to?

I think I would take up trap/and or skeet shooting. Remember, the USSR shot down Francis Gary Powers and the U2 he was flying.

Have you ever shot skeet?

Nancy, I'm sorry for posting that video on the net. Now may I please have my toy plane back?

On a more serious note, however, if they were talking pictures that they should not have, will they report their missing spyplane?

seems to me in the early part of the 1900's the governments in a large power grab modified your fee simple rights as landowners to allow air craft and such to over fly your property. But the bundle of rights you got with the property when you bought it does give you some rights and if it's flying low enough AND you get creative you should be able to prevent further intrusions. This could mean you establish a shooting range, raise the range flag and by golly you don't know how that stray shot hit the plane to finding some way to jam the control frequency or even giving it an overdose of EMRs. Creative use of fire works could take it out as well as your own RC device.

Now if it's definitely a video camera on a toy plane and your pretty sure it isn't big brother flying it I would expect you have a reasonable right to privacy on your own property and any action you take to disable the plane might cause the owner to sue you or raise a stink with the law, you would have to counter sue with an invasion of privacy and trespass. If it is big brother and you're really bored I suppose you could sue for violation of you rights to unreasonable search and seizure, but it'll cost you a lot of money.

Of course I'm not a lawyer so you might want to contact one.

Or you could erect tents and camo netting and really screw with them, maybe even make it appear nefarious activities are in progress and watch the fire works. Could be an interesting case when it hits the courts.

If it's a cheap camera you could erect or lay out things on the ground that might get the peeping tom to identify themselves (thinking manikins or blow up dolls in pools of blood) or do some "suspicious" gardening and see what happens, D.A. s and judges get a little up tight when they have to admit they issued a warrant to seize alfalfa plants being grown in a suspicious manner and explain how they came into your knowledge of alfalfa cultivation

Normally aircraft have to stay over 500ft above private property,I learned this from the FAA in a battle with some local Hot Air Balloon operators as they are licensed by the FAA just like airplane pilots.Filed a couple of complaints per FAA instructions and Hot Air Balloons stay away from my place.Also a law in my state if an aircraft lands on ones property the landowner can hold the aircraft until any damages are paid.

According to the Attorney Generals office,"what they can see from the ground" is limited to what they can see from the road or the driveway unless they have a warrant.

If the camera took pictures through your bedroom window like a peeping Tom and the pics ended up on the net you should most certainly go after them if you can prove whose plane and camera it is. Otherwise, if you aren't doing anything illegal on your property that you want to hide I wouldn't raise much of a fuss. We already have Google earth looking at us supposedly lawfully. Jim

A piloted airplane has every right to fly over your place and look down at it and take pictures of it. I happens all the time. I don't see why it is any different if the pilot is on the ground looking at a video screen flying remotely. I can see why it might annoy one if it is doing it at low altitude and you are swimming starkers in your pond.

Nancy, Unfortunately, these things are never quite as simple as a laymen might think, I'M OBVIOUSLY NOT going to research your states laws on hobby or other aircraft or privacy which would be required to render a worthwhile professional legal opinion, short of that lay or even professional "opinions" are worth just what you pay here NOTHING AT ALL lol Still you asked so I will give you my very basic unresearched thoughts as an Attorney

1) Privacy: If you're outdoors in public view, even if on your own property and especially on public property, the law doesnt afford you much of any "expectation of privacy" Of course, if inside your home it does and there are laws against voyeurism. As far as expectation of privacy from the air, in todays world of Google Earth, while the expectation is greater then say from the street, I dont expect youre gonna prevail in any huge dollar lawsuit alleging your privacy rights were violated HOWEVER SEE BELOW.........AGAIN I HAVENT RESEARCHED YOUR STATES LAWS THERE MAY BE A STATUTE ON POINT???

2) Shooting it down????? Id have to advise against that, but relevant factors would be. You in town or rural,,,,,,Potential danger to other citizens,,,,,,,,Any ordnances against firearm discharge where you live,,,,,,,,,You licensed?????? WHAT HARM OR FEAR OR ANXIETY OR TRAUMA CAN YOU ALLEGE YOU SUFFER AS A RESULT OF THE PLANE FLYING OVER YOUR PROPERTY

3) If it lands on your property??? Id keep it and place the burden on the other person to get it back. Its "probably" yours as a matter of law and if the other person goes to the time and expense and prevails in getting it back (I sorta doubt) I sorta doubt he will keep flying over your home.......

THAT ALL BEING SAID HERES SOME FREE UNRESEARCHED PROFESSIONAL ADVICE

If I were your attorney I might suggest things such as:

A) Write a certified US Mail letter to the yo yo telling him to CEASE AND DESIST or else you will prefer any rightful criminal and civil charges THAT PUTS HIM ON LEGAL NOTICE

B) File a complaint with your county Prosecutor, you can allege it causes you stress and anxiety and violates your privacy etc etc......Ask for a "Temporary Restraining Order" and it might be granted????? If so then in like 21 to 30 days there will be a Hearing (for injunction to remain or it goes away) which you may win or loose, but its not hard or costly (your tax dollars already pay the prosecutor) and worth a shot, it may at least put the fear in the dude I HAVE DONE SUCH THINGS FOR CLIENTS AND IT WORKED .......

Put him on Notice to cease,,,,,,,Dont shoot it down,,,,,,,If it lands on your property keep it,,,,,,Talk to your Prosecutors office about a TRO THATS MY BEST UNRESEARCHED FREE LEGAL ADVICE.........

John T The Country lawyer

Remember your rights are diminishing even more rapidly as of 2 weeks ago

1. Don't shoot it down. It's not against the law to fly it over your property. I bet you there is a law against shooting it down.
2. You can keep it. Our club lost an expensive two place sailplane when they landed on someones field.
3. It is not considered spying. Look at all of the aerial photographers who make a living taking pictures.
Question. If they made that against the law wouldn't we all have to ask permission of anyone who's property we flew over?

I agree with the fellows below, keep a hand thrower and a box of blue rock handy.

You would never of course try to shoot it down, but if it flew into your trajectory while shooting skeet.........

Those toy R/C planes can be a lethal weapon if they happen to lose contact with the transmitter. I used to build them back in the seventies. Had one with a six foot wing span and a sixty size gas motor. Lost contact with it after take off due to a defective transmitter I had. It leveled off about fifty feet in the air and went straight away from me. Finally after it went about three hundred yards it made enough contact with the transmitter, it turned upside down and then dove straight into the ground. Buried the motor about three inches in the dirt. Dangerous toys. Person could get hurt.

Can you shoot it down? Are you in the city limits? Texas Penal Code 42.12 says no. If you are in the country you may have a defense, however you are responsible for wherever that bullet goes.

Can you keep it? Sure, if they call the cops, they will defer it as a civil matter and tell you and the other party to go hire lawyers (John T is not cheap either)

Can you file charges for spying? It depends, Texas Penal Code 21.15 is the charge for improper photography. It depends on what he is looking for when they takes the picture.

Hope this helps (from a Texas Peace Officer)

I do not know a lot of the laws but do know a plane can not fly below X number of feet over your land and to do so is trespassing so you need to do the law look up to see just how low any such thing can fly and if below that you have legal things you can do. As to shooting it down that is a big if since it is legal to shoot a trespasser?? If yes as in the TX after dark law then yes if not after dark well?????????????????

i would use a 12 guage myself

I don't understand the posters who say you can keep it if it lands on your prop. I had a guy run off the road and get stuck on my prop. with his pickup. He retrieved it with a tow truck. Could I have kept it? Also several years back I found what I thought might be an abandoned 4-wheeler. Turns out the guy was bow hunting in my nearby woods without permission. Could I have kept his 4-wheeler?

My take on it (and I am not a lawyer) is shoot shovel and shut up. When they come and ask Questions you don't know what they are talking about. If you are going to worry about what some lawyer is going to do to you, you have already lost the battle. That is one of the biggest reasons that we have all the problems we have in this country. Years ago people settled there own problems and they didn't need cops lawyers and politions to tell them how to do it.

Bob

Are the aliens from Roswell coming after you again Nancy?

Nancy, I don't have a good answer to any of your questions. My advice, however, is just put your clothes back on and feel flattered.

YT post not far ahead of yours, with news article on a similar situation
Drone shot Down

If it happened more than a couple of times I may want to see where it refuels then ask inquisitive questions to the owner. If the person is taking pics really close to the ground he may be looking for places from which to steal. Tell the cops and maybe they can connect the dots.

Its considered trespassing if its not over a certain distance off the ground in some states.

Can they see your place and keep a visual on it when they are flying the plane? If not you'll have way more choices of what you can do,hearing a shot and not having their plane show back up wouldn't necessarily be connected if they never find the plane.Old could have spotted a groundhog about the same time.Sort of like dogs that chase/kill livestock and loose their way home.

Maybe. At one time, if a landowner caught someone hunting on their property without permission, the landowner could confiscate the hunter"s gun.

You would need to check the laws in your state.

Ok. Let me clarify a bit. No one is spying on me (that I know of). Read the article on the internet about the SHARK group using a remote controlled model airplane outfitted with a video camera to spy on a shooting club using live pigeons (a legal activity in that state).

The hunting club moved the activity to an area that could not be seen from public property, hence the remote controlled model plane equipped with a video camera.

The animal rights group outfitted the plane with a video camera specifically for the purpose of "spying" on the hunt club. Since the intent and purpose was to "spy", I was wondering if it was legal to do that.

I know commercial and private aircraft fly over all the time and yes they take pictures, but does the intent and purpose make a difference?

It is a model airplane. It works off remote control. Frequency is "X' Milihurtz I think. There is a thing called radio frequency interference. Certain legal airwave activity interferes with the controller. So be careful you don't make any transmission which makes it go Kamikaze. You might even want to check out some model airplane websites to see what kind of electronic devices you should avoid to make sure you don't interfere with the contoller. This is especially important as you could interfere with the contoller even when it is not over your property! On a historical note , didn't Amelia Erhardt attempt to land on , "Howell Island" also? And hasn't been heard from since?