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Stupidity on my part

T

Todd Hovick

Member
I have had my welding 220 recepticle hooked up for a few years, a also use it for my generator when the power goes out. This summer I got a 220 air compresser so I ran wires out of the welder recepticle for the air compresser recepticle, then I ran a 110 outlet from that using only one line in, and the neutral. Everything worked fine during the summer, but with the threat of Hurricane Sandy, I started the generator, turned the main breaker and hot water heater off and expected everything to be normal. Not!!! There was a backfeed from the 110 outlet to the panel box resulting to 220 in every room. Light bulbs began to pop and one TV began smoking. Two power strips were ruined, the telephone, computer, monitor, printer. Next time I will run a designated circuit.
 
So Tod your normal operation with the generator was pull the MAIN breaker so everything is off, then take a cord with male plugs on each end. Plug one in the generator and one into the welder plub, thus backfeeding you entire pannel box or just that one circuit. We used the same set up for a couple of years now have a wired in back up 20 kw genrac generator. The generator kicks on after power failure automatic. Reall like the set up. However I never had [problems you have experience but I would have to call the neighbors to know when the power came back on.
 
I do what you mentioned, a 30 amp plug on the generator to the welder plug, backfeed it to the main panel with the main breaker off, this has worked great in the past. With a 13,500 watt generator I run the entire house, but shut the hot water heater off. My new wiring for the air compressor must have backfed somehow. I removed that wire and everything seems to work fine.
 
Plugging a generator into a house and manually tripping main breaker is a real bad idea.

The transformer outside your house will step it up to lethal voltages if the breaker gets reset. Lineman have gotten killed by people doing that, and it is forbidden by every code book.
 
(quoted from post at 19:29:41 10/28/12) I have had my welding 220 recepticle hooked up for a few years, a also use it for my generator when the power goes out. This summer I got a 220 air compresser so I ran wires out of the welder recepticle for the air compresser recepticle, then I ran a 110 outlet from that using only one line in, and the neutral. Everything worked fine during the summer, but with the threat of Hurricane Sandy, I started the generator, turned the main breaker and hot water heater off and expected everything to be normal. Not!!! There was a backfeed from the 110 outlet to the panel box resulting to 220 in every room. Light bulbs began to pop and one TV began smoking. Two power strips were ruined, the telephone, computer, monitor, printer. Next time I will run a designated circuit.
Click to expand...
ore there than meets the eye.
 
We had an electrician put in a sub panel, with a couple double lock out breakers, that eliminate the possibility of that happening.
 
Todd, from your description, there may have been a problem caused by adding a 110v receptacle from your 220 circuit. If the 220 circuit was three wires, the third wire is a ground, and would not normally carry any current. The third wire can't be used as a neutral. Although many people hook their generator into the electrical system through a dryer receptacle, it is not a safe practice. There is an interlock kit which can be added to the cover of your electrical panel which mechanically locks out the main breaker when your generator breaker is on: http://www.master-electrical.com/interlockdiv.htm. I hope this helps- Jack
 
His 110v line causes things to bleed back to both sides and make a mess.

He says he went from hot to nuetral, but usually a welder outlet is only 3 prong and does not have a neutral, only 2 hots and a ground. So he likely got the ground wire involved instead, and electrified the whole path of ground wires in his system that never should be energized.

I really appreciate him posting this message, and alerting folks to the hazards of wiring up a generator circut wrong. Looks like a few folks are jumping on him for this..... It would appear he's paid for his mistake, fortunately only with stuff that can be replaced easily (it coulda been a lot worse!), and again - thanks for posting the message and alerting others to the issue!

--->Paul
 
You're real lucky you didn't burn your place down. Although Buickanddeere sometimes goes over the top, he has always stressed the importance of using a proper transfer switch and not to back feed through a dryer or welder plug. I suspect he'll be along shortly to clue you in. You are really lucky to get a next time! I'm wondering if you might have to rewire your entire house???
 
The problem it the 110 plug piggy backed on the air compressor plug. He was running current back through to the ground side. That caused some circuits in the house to see 220v not 110v.
 
Thanks for sharing. Even though it might be a bit embarrassing for you, everybody needs to know what can happen if you cut corners.

This is a good example of an "accident chain of events". If you had installed a transfer switch, OR if you had not tapped in to your 220 circuit for 110, this would have never happened. It also sounds like you tied the cold side of your 110 outlet to ground, since compressors and welders usually have a three-wire connection, so that makes three mistakes. So it took three things to create your problem, if you had eliminated just one nothing would have happened.

There may also be a problem with your grounding. Make sure that your neutral and ground are tied together at the service disconnect, and that your welder outlet is properly grounded.
 
Line men treat all lines as hot and I have seen them put short circuits on dead lines.Your little generator would stall if it got on to a power line.
 
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