More on my Belly Pump Problem

Didnt have much time to work with it, but I did swap the hose to each port and it still will not hold pressure up. It will hold all the way up if you hold the control rod for say 3 or 4 seconds after the cylinder reaches its full extended position, but anywhere else, it just drops back down. I dont think its a problem with the stub on the rod, my supervisor says its got to be something in the pump, sinc it does the same thing even with the rod disconnected. Ruling out trash, as was suggested before, what else could cause this problem? All we did was do a direct swap from one tractor to the other, and it was working fine like an hour before. Ill try to check in later today, but again, thanks in advance.

I assume belly pump on a farmall H or M.

What do you mean by "working fine an hour before?"

Was this pump unit working fine in a different tractor?

The problem is in the valve. It should have three distinct positions: neutral/hold (middle), lower (forward), and raise (back).

The valve is not staying in the neutral position, and is going right to lower, OR it is leaking internally. There are no other possibilities.

Either way it's not something you can adjust or wish away. You gotta pull the pump, take it apart, see what's wrong, and fix it.

Adjust the ratchet on the control shaft. You've got it out of time.

Allan

Sorry, I meant to post this on the Farmall
section. My buddy was pulling a baler with his M
when he had a rod go through the oil pan. We
swapped his pumpo into my M, which does not have a
pump. Now it wont hold in the up position. All we
did was pull his tractor to the shop, take out the
pump, and put in in my tractor, and instantly it
didnt work right. I dont see how we could have
damged anything simply swapping the pump from on
tractor to the other, but apparently we did. I
know the problem isnt going to fix itself, but I
dont know squat about the pump.

I assume you mean the "up/down" lever. If so, then thats not the problem.If I move it either way, its either too far back of too far foward. I already tried that, but thanks.

Hi John,

Just so we're on the same page. You tried changing the teeth position between the pipe and the pump control?

Allan

Maybe the control lever isn't in the correct position as Allan eluded to, but more due to the position of the mount the rod goes thru. If the light tree or the rod mount is slightly bent, it would put the pump lever in a different, maybe incorrect position.

The control does not center exactly to neutral. The lug on the rod does that and holds it in the correct position.

When mounting the teeth to the pump, neutral isn't where ya think it is by about a tooth's width.

In other words, the rod actually "pulls it up to neutral".

Allan

Yes I agree with the lever being out of sync. but it might be where the lug rests to hold the rod might be bent/out of position enough to cause the same trouble.

(quoted from post at 07:40:56 10/16/12) Sorry, I meant to post this on the Farmall
section. My buddy was pulling a baler with his M
when he had a rod go through the oil pan. We
swapped his pumpo into my M, which does not have a
pump. Now it wont hold in the up position. All we
did was pull his tractor to the shop, take out the
pump, and put in in my tractor, and instantly it
didnt work right. I dont see how we could have
damged anything simply swapping the pump from on
tractor to the other, but apparently we did. I
know the problem isnt going to fix itself, but I
dont know squat about the pump.

Click to expand...

Swap out the bracket that the control rod sets in. Use the bracket from the tractor the pump used to be in.

It's a long shot, but I think those brackets sometimes get a little "tweaked" out of shape.

Its not my tractor, its Richards,(dang autofill) and hes using my computer here @ work. I think what hes saying is the position of the lever where it goes into the the pump. IIRC theres only like 4 teeth on the lever and hes saying that if he moves it foward, its too far foward, and if he moves it back its too far back to work. Ill try and catch him in a little bit to maybe clarify whats going on, but it sounds to me like something happened in the pump when they pulled it.

I just spoke with Richard, heres the problem: No matter what position the lever that goes through the clutch housing is in on the pump, there is only up and down, no neutral at all. He said they even flip the lever 180 degrees and it still does it. I dont think its going to be in the control rod, since there is a neutral position, whether the rod is hooked up or not, if the pump is working as it should, He did tell me, if they pull the control rod all the way back until the engine starts to labor, the cylinder will stay up, but the slightest movement of the control rod it drop back down. Im think coincidentally something just happen to break inside the pump when they moved it from one tractor to another. Isnt there a spring that can break that would cause this? Its been so long since Ive been in to one, I sent him here, well to the Farmall board. BTW, Im going after work tonight to see or myself what its doing.

(quoted from post at 12:46:08 10/16/12) I just spoke with Richard, heres the problem: No matter what position the lever that goes through the clutch housing is in on the pump, there is only up and down, no neutral at all. He said they even flip the lever 180 degrees and it still does it. I dont think its going to be in the control rod, since there is a neutral position, whether the rod is hooked up or not, if the pump is working as it should, He did tell me, if they pull the control rod all the way back until the engine starts to labor, the cylinder will stay up, but the slightest movement of the control rod it drop back down. Im think coincidentally something just happen to break inside the pump when they moved it from one tractor to another. Isnt there a spring that can break that would cause this? Its been so long since Ive been in to one, I sent him here, well to the Farmall board. BTW, Im going after work tonight to see or myself what its doing.

Click to expand...

It is also possible to install that lever, and NOT have the cogs engaged. The whole thing will act and feel like it's ready to go, until you actually try to raise a wagon or something.

Just went and I looked at this problem. There literally is no control at all, its either up or down. The lever is engaged into the dogs properly, but if as Richard mentioned, if you move it either way, it just wont work, so theres only one way it can go together. You can slow it from dropping by pulling the control rod about 3", but all it does is slow down. It still drops. They are going to drop this pump over the weekend and see what could have happened.

Posting a picture John although not as clear as I would like. Lever that has several white marks pushes the 2 pins just above the two single white marks when the control lever is pushed forward. Can just see the shiny ends I think. Pins push balls off a seat to let hydraulic fluid come back to the unit from the ports. Pressure pushes the balls off the seats when pumping into the lines. Unless the pins are pushed in fluid is not supposed to flow back after a load is on the cylinder. When the control rod is stopped on the catch bump its usually several inches from pushing a pin in.
Also the more load thats on a cylinder the harder it gets to push the ball or balls off the seats when pushing the rod forward.
If the unit won't stay up the balls are leaking or a internal leak. Or maybe the linkage is keeping the pins pushed in, kind of doubt it though. Wonder if dirt, metal cuttings, teflon tape, ETC. got into the ports when changing and is now keeping the balls from sealing.