Why independent mechanics can stay in business...

Spent several days last week working for a customer out of town. Here's a couple of reasons guys like me stay in business.

Customer took his loader to the dealership for some work last year and asked them about the A/C system. He was told that it needed "major repairs", without them even really looking at it. He didn't have time to get anything done right then so FF to this year when it went in for some undercarriage work so asked them to check out the A/C system while it was there. That turned into an addional 3 weeks after the undercarriage work was done. Then $3000 (new expansion valve, lines, trinary switch, etc, etc, etc) later they tell him the compressor just went bad too. He needed the machine back on the job so asked them to button things up so he could get it back to work. So, when he finds out I will work on any brand equipment, not just his CAT stuff, and also do mobile A/C work, I get asked to check it out. First thing I find was I couldn't pull a vacuum on the system, so I assume, based on the write up, that they blew the compressor seal. He had already had me buy a new compressor so I went ahead and put it on. Having to evacuate and charge the system several times would have cost as much as simply replacing the compressor so we were time and money ahead just going with the new part regardless. Got it on and tried again and still couldn't draw a vacuum, so started checking further. Found the dealerships guys hadn't bolted down the housing holding the evaporator and heating coil and as a result the evaporator coil tubes had gotten broken. A call and a bit of b!tching and they offered to replace the coil at their cost. Got it in,everything bolted up properly, the system evacuated, and charged, but couldn't get the low side out of a vacuum, and the high side was reading relatively low also. Suspected the "new" expansion valve was bad or given everything else I was that it hadn't actually been changed. So, a known, new expansion valve was installed. System recharged and I was still showing a vacuum on the low side, and the high side not quite right either. Finally started checking lines for blockages, etc and found that when they installed the new compressor suction line it was about a 15 foot line that didn't run but maybe 6 feet. The high side line coming off the compressor didn't need to run but maybe 4 feet but it was also about 15 feet long. The suction line I understood being long to allow tilting the cab for service, but not the other one. Anyway, instead of the extra on each line being neatly coiled up and 'stowed' both had been shoved back into the open space available and zip tied like crazy. Turns out they had kinked the suction line, and then zip tied the kink in it. On purpose, or just plain stupidity I don't know but either way nit paying attention to what your doing when it comes to something like that is just plain stupid. So, got that problem solved, and got the system charged and cooling and then discovered that for soem reason voltage to the A/C compressor coul drops off and causes the clutch to start slipping (probably the 'compressor failure' my custmer was told had happened. He needed the machine operational A/C or not the next day so troubleshooting the new problem will be another day.

In the end nothing in the dealerships write up on their 'repair' that makes even the slightest sense. Changing the lines with holes in them (at ground level right inside an access door) was the second thing they said they did. Why didn't they find that leak when the charged the system the first time and said they found a leak around the trianary switch on top of the cab? How you put a system under a vacuum and not find a major leak, but can charge it twice to find it. How do you charge and get pressure readings on a system when one of the lines you changed is kinked.....and on, and on, and on......Now I've got to write up a detailed recount of what I found and had to do to fix their screwups, and how what they say they did was pure BS based on what all I found (said they cleaned the evaporator core,but it looked like it had been dipped in a mud puddle and let dry)so he had some ammo to go back against the dealership to get his $3000 plus back. Oh, they 'cut him a deal' on the labor because it had been much more........ Guess that will eventually find it's way to court......

Now another case of WTF are they thinking from a second dealership. Same customer bought a bearing for another of his machines, from the dealership, and asked me to install it. Got the machine torn down, and attempted to install the bearing. It would fit the housing and shaft but it was too thick to install the snap ring. Called the dealership and was told that that was the ONLY bearing used on those machines and it had to fit. Told them it didn't so they said being it to us, we'll show you how to do it. Took it over to them and the first thing that happened was a shop guy took out the snap ring I had put into the housing to show it didn't fit. He let it go just as it cleared the housing and just missed my customers head before heading out the door and hitting the side of his truck. They proceeded to make sure it was seated in the housing (BTDT twice myself). Saw that it was so they tried to install the snap ring (I just had it in and it was obvious it would not fit into the groove). So, remove the ring again, and the brearing too this time, and break out the calipers to verify that everything was in fact about 3/32 too thick for the snap ring to go into it's groove (eyes alone just verified that fact)... So, take the bearing out again and take some pics to send to the OEM. While waiting to hear back from them, put the bearing back in, beat on the snap ring trying to get it in until it lockes the bearing down...then comment that "at least it's part way in"..... fast forward as we spent over 2 hours waiting on them to figure something out since "The bearing had to go there since, 'it was the ONLY one ever used.' The final verdict given to us was to take a grinder and reach down in the housing and grind out enough to make the bearing fit. No matter that the bearing has to seat exactly flat, since it supports a hanging shaft that will side load and break the shaft on the drive motor if it's not held flat and square to the shaft on the motor.

What's scary is what would they have actually done if they had been doing the machine in their shop and been faced with the sitiation themselves. In this case I made a few calls and found the a variation on the bearing they supplied that had identical load ratings, etc, etc and fit the application like it was supposed to fit. I later found part of the inner race from the old bearing, which had literally gone to pieces, and was able to verify that the one we found to go in it was actually the right one.

In both cases I can't believe the ineptitude of the dealerships mechanics. Both are very reputable brand names, one for tractors, machinery, etc, etc, and the other for various types of machinery like chippers, etc. In one case there is no way they did all of the things they said they did and to anyone that knows anything about mobile A/C systems it's extreemly obvious they did nothing but screw over a customer. On the other to make a suggestion that you 'grind' a housing so a bearing can fit is outright stupid, to say the least. In both cases I tried to give the benefit of the doubt on the problems until I found what had happened or was told to do something absolutely stupid to solve a problem. I'm to the point now that I'm glad I don't own any equipment that needs to go to a dealership because there is no way in he!! I'd trust any of them to do what needed to be done, and to do it RIGHT. My customer is the same way and as it stands right now none of his machines will ever see a dealership again unless I tell him that's the only place to take them due to the need for specialized computer programing, etc, etc. Oh well, given that most of his machines are pre-computer control, I just don't see that happening that often....AHHHHH Job security.....

I wrote a long reply that I didn't like....

Yup, agree with you, have run into similar.

--->Paul

It really didn't surprise me when I took our new vehicle back to the dealer for a free first oil change. When I got the vehicle home, I checked and found that they had left the wire off from the oil pressure sending unit.

Apparently they don't get paid or evaluated on quality work, so it is a low priority.

"Good" mechanics will always have all the work they want.

I am on retired on disability. I stay busy with equipment because of things like that. I am slow and can't work like I use to. Some days can't work at all.But people hire me because they know. I will work for a fair price and they will get back equipment that is fixed properly.

My insurance lady took her car back to the dealer. For its first service. Next morning found oil under the car. They had cracked the pan and tried to cover it up with JB Weld. Service writer told her. That who ever had changed the oil had cracked the pan. Warranty on the engine was voided because of that. I think the case goes to court next month.

"The Stealerships" is what we call them.

I usually change my own oil in my cars. But this time take my car in for a oil change as it was in the single digits outside. Mechanic comes out (he looked all of 20yrs old) and asked me how oil does my engine take? I checked it after it sat overnite the next day. Full quart over.
Another time take it to a Jiffy Lube (never again) as I was traveling and car was still under warranty.
Ask for the synthetic oil. Just happen to be sitting in waiting room where when I look up from the magazine I am reading I can see the tech putting plain old 5w30 in my car. By the time I get up and pop my head in and remind him I need 5w20 synthetic he is done. Mgr frowns and says something to the tech. Tech dumps oil and puts synthetic in.
Next day I notice a drip in the driveway. Can't do anything about it as I gotta drive to 2+ hrs back and forth to work in Philly that day. MISTAKE.
Next day backing into spot at work I hear this strange clunk! Cold as hell out and I gotta get inside. That nite I come out and start car, move about 10 ft and oil light comes on. Oil all over. Dark, cant see. Get ride home. Next day have the car towed by Mazda road side assistance for free.
Dealer calls to tell me the oil filter fell off!
They did a new oil change and test drove car. Said is seemed fine but only time would tell if I damaged any bearings. And oh, by the way we have voided your engine warranty due to the fact you drove the car with no oil. WHICH I did not do.
I traded the car in at a Mazda dealer late one day on a Saturday. Tuesday when I went to pick up my new one GM was mad. "If you don't want the trade In let's just drop the whole deal!" Take it a stick it Mazda.
Pete

how did you get it home without seeing the low pressure warning? wire off should have shown warning light.

It's not just mechanics in general it's a lack of business ethics, I have problems with commercial roofers, I feel that roofs shouldn't leak, they have a more abundant view of what constitutes an acceptable roofing job. What makes it worse is roofers pay high workman's comp rates and often have to bid jobs. Unfortunately many roofers and roofing manufacturers have more invested in air tight contracts that let them skate on performance issues than investing in time and training to do the job well. Sometimes this doesn't leave much to pay employees. Unfortunately the lack of ethics in new car and implement dealers is based on manufacturers that are doing to the dealer what the dealers are doing to us. The manufacturers drop their design, production, performance and quality problems on the dealers without compensating them. Poor shop supervision also allows customers to be abused by the flat rate system, or the tech or house gets abused having to eat the diagnostic costs.

local cat dealer we use to use sent a service truck to replace the resolvers on a 416 backhoe control valve,i ask if he would repack one of the swing cyl.while he was there ,they had to order the parts as usual told him ok as long as it was back going monday morning this was thursday morning,assured me he would have it repaired,he did went to pay the bill 4500 dollars to install 4 resolvers and repack 1-3 1/2 inch swing cylinder, resolver repair was high but a lot of labor was involved best i can recall the cyl. repair was in excess of 3500 dollars,asked what took place they told me that the parts were the wrong ones after they got it tore down,sent 2 service trucks back to finish the job the next day when the parts came in,we got charged for every move the made even with the wrong parts ,they kept reminding me of how much trouble it was to remove the all thread bolt that holds the cylinder pins in place on the boom base,it's hard to believe that 2 mechanic's let that whip them,when i'd heard enough i asked the shop manger if he would would pay that much to get a 3 1/2 by about 8 inch stroke cyl rebuilt that the parts would fit in his shirt pocket, he wouldn't give me an answer,i explained that there was nothing mystical about repairing a hyd. cylinder and that he was way over priced as 2 months earlier i got one that's a 5 inch by 6 foot 3 stage dual action taken of the truck and a new one built not rebuilt and reinstalled on the truck for 3500 dollars,he finally reduced the bill to just over 3000 still highway robbery, paid them and will go out of my way and pay extra to keep from having to deal with dealers

I hear stories like that all the time. Heck I went up week before last to repair an A/C line on this same customers excavator. I had made a run through the week prior to see what parts I thought I would need and I showed up with all the fittings I thought I would need, a size 8, 10, and 12 (we didn't know which line was burned or if both were burned. Turned out what I thought was a reduced diameter 8 was in fact a 6, sooooo I didn't have the right splice. The nearest place with one was an hour and a half away so the customer made a trip to get the right size. In the meantime I had nothing more to do at that site, but did have work to do on the machine mentioned before. Problem is it was about 20 miles away. I made the trip both ways withoiut charging for either time or mileage to do so. The way I was it the customer was paying for my time, and he didn't deserve to have to pay me for my own screwup on th parts, expecially when he was making the trip for the right parts.

In the end everything got done, I only had about an hour of 'wasted' time, the customer got his machine running by the end of the day, and everyone was happy.

What gets me is, you take a vehicle or piece of machinery to a dealership, and they have all these plaques, and certificates of training that the techs are supposed to have completed, and they STILL can't properly diagnose or repair the problem. The exam booklets must have had the answers in the back.

I remember seeing the old books from Dad's time at the dealerships back in the 70's and early 80's. They actually had to do math problems, etc, etc as part of the lessons in order to troubleshoot hydraulic problems, etc. Personally I think the biggest problem is that the plaques, etc hanging around were given to 'the dealership' for sending x amount of employees to certain schools, or to one tech who went to a school and they now expect to do everything, including going behind the know nothings to fix their screwups. May be right, may be wrong, but this is sure how it seems sometimes.

Another thing having grown up with a Dad who worked at a couple of different dealerships, as a field mechanic, I've seen and heard firsthand the differences between the shop mechanics and the field mechanics. The field guys are the usually the only ones that know anything and the shop guys are the low men on the totem pole who still need to be trained....and get said training at the customers expense........

Well I work at a green dealership and honestly will say how sad it can be to see whats going on there sometimes. I'm in my mid 20's and the second oldest in the shop time wise. Honestly of the 8 mechanics, only 3 of them are worth a darn(i'll include me in that) A couple of the other people dont have any common sense on how to improvise if the way to fix it isnt spelled out clearly in the book, so many days I feel like a babysitter, which takes away from my time to get projects done in a timely manner which I feel very bad for the customer. I have been very tempted to go out on my own which I truly think I could do, but what scares me the most is how fast this machinery is changing, in 20 or 30 years how is it going to be for the independent guy to work on todays equipment??? Will there be enough mechanical issues that we could make a living with? I hope that by that time i'll be able to expand the farming operation enough that it isnt any issue though. Getting back to it, there are some very qualified mechanics at dealerships still, yet theres others I wouldnt trust putting batteries in my tv remote...

And what about the independants who cheat too? One "a good Christian man" according to my mom, did a very expensive R&I alternator swap on her car, 1986 Chevy Celebrity, tell her that it's an odd ball that was only used by Gm for one year and only on that car. I was still in the Army then. She refused to believe me when I told her different becuase this good man wouldn't cheat. A couple of months later she took her car back to him with the AC not working. He charge her 250 claiming he had dissassembled the compressor, it was going to have to be rebuilt and it was an odd ball only used on that car for one year and when he got the parts it was going to cost her another 450 for him to rebuild it. She called me that night and ask if I could find her on in a salvage yard. I went to NAPA the next day and ask about the cost of a reman. 145 bucks. I called mom and told her. She ask waht to do. I told her to take it to another shop with a very good reputation. 29.95 later she had air after the good shop recharged the system.

In another case while working as a mechanic had a woman come in with a repair estamate from a rival shop to replace the rear axle pinion shaft seal on a front wheel drive car. They were only going to charge her 95 bucks too!

Both of these clowns are still in business too.

Rick

(quoted from post at 01:19:06 09/11/12) I remember seeing the old books from Dad's time at the dealerships back in the 70's and early 80's. They actually had to do math problems, etc, etc as part of the lessons in order to troubleshoot hydraulic problems, etc. Personally I think the biggest problem is that the plaques, etc hanging around were given to 'the dealership' for sending x amount of employees to certain schools, or to one tech who went to a school and they now expect to do everything, including going behind the know nothings to fix their screwups. May be right, may be wrong, but this is sure how it seems sometimes.

Another thing having grown up with a Dad who worked at a couple of different dealerships, as a field mechanic, I've seen and heard firsthand the differences between the shop mechanics and the field mechanics. The field guys are the usually the only ones that know anything and the shop guys are the low men on the totem pole who still need to be trained....and get said training at the customers expense........

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CWayne, it is good that there are a few folks like you still out here........but how much longer?